Clerks Taking Questions Forum

[lavarman84]

Asking other circuit clerks if they had a similar experience. My circuit judge is nice and smart but when it comes to cases or writing he legitimately does not do anything beyond just telling me what he thinks the outcome of the case should be after reading the bench memo and the briefs. I have to give him my opinions to read over before filing them, but he rarely if ever makes any edits. He's been a judge for a while so maybe this is par for the course and he has honed instincts on these things that I don't have, but I can't imagine that my writing or legal reasoning is so perfect to necessitate close to zero edits.

Not abnormal. My circuit judge would make light edits. That was usually it.

[Anonymous User]

Asking other circuit clerks if they had a similar experience. My circuit judge is nice and smart but when it comes to cases or writing he legitimately does not do anything beyond just telling me what he thinks the outcome of the case should be after reading the bench memo and the briefs. I have to give him my opinions to read over before filing them, but he rarely if ever makes any edits. He's been a judge for a while so maybe this is par for the course and he has honed instincts on these things that I don't have, but I can't imagine that my writing or legal reasoning is so perfect to necessitate close to zero edits.

Not abnormal. My circuit judge would make light edits. That was usually it.

Really puts in perspective how sweet a gig being a federal circuit judge is.

[Anonymous User]

What’s the school tier ranking for clerkship hiring? Is it still roughly:

Y
S/H
C/C/N
M/V/P
D/N/B
C/GULC
UCLA/Tex

With the obvious caveat that the holistic application obviously matters more than the school. Thoughts?

My two judges (SDNY, CA2, both highly selective) both treated it as Y > H/S/C >> C/N > other T14s. I don't think many people past law school know the rankings of or really distinguish between schools 7-13, with the exception that UVA does seem to have an unusually successful clerkship program (though personally I saw very few UVA clerkship applicants in NY).

[Anonymous User]

Asking other circuit clerks if they had a similar experience. My circuit judge is nice and smart but when it comes to cases or writing he legitimately does not do anything beyond just telling me what he thinks the outcome of the case should be after reading the bench memo and the briefs. I have to give him my opinions to read over before filing them, but he rarely if ever makes any edits. He's been a judge for a while so maybe this is par for the course and he has honed instincts on these things that I don't have, but I can't imagine that my writing or legal reasoning is so perfect to necessitate close to zero edits.

Not abnormal. My circuit judge would make light edits. That was usually it.

I would say this is at the extreme end, but it varies heavily by chambers. There are some other judges at the opposite extreme who essentially rewrite everything clerks do.

[Anonymous User]

Asking other circuit clerks if they had a similar experience. My circuit judge is nice and smart but when it comes to cases or writing he legitimately does not do anything beyond just telling me what he thinks the outcome of the case should be after reading the bench memo and the briefs. I have to give him my opinions to read over before filing them, but he rarely if ever makes any edits. He's been a judge for a while so maybe this is par for the course and he has honed instincts on these things that I don't have, but I can't imagine that my writing or legal reasoning is so perfect to necessitate close to zero edits.

Not abnormal. My circuit judge would make light edits. That was usually it.

I would say this is at the extreme end, but it varies heavily by chambers. There are some other judges at the opposite extreme who essentially rewrite everything clerks do.

But still on the bell curve you would say? Or no is this several standard deviations away.

[Anonymous User]

What’s the school tier ranking for clerkship hiring? Is it still roughly:

Y
S/H
C/C/N
M/V/P
D/N/B
C/GULC
UCLA/Tex

With the obvious caveat that the holistic application obviously matters more than the school. Thoughts?

My two judges (SDNY, CA2, both highly selective) both treated it as Y > H/S/C >> C/N > other T14s. I don't think many people past law school know the rankings of or really distinguish between schools 7-13, with the exception that UVA does seem to have an unusually successful clerkship program (though personally I saw very few UVA clerkship applicants in NY).

Agreed that many judges (who are decades out of law school) don't think of schools in such detailed "tiers" like some folks on this forum do, so I don't think making these rankings is particularly helpful. This also overlooks the fact that a decent number of judges seem to have pretty strong regional preferences - Chicago/Michigan/Northwestern carry more weight in the Midwest, Berkeley/Stanford on the West Coast, UVA/Duke in the South, etc. And often a judge's perception of a school (that isn't their alma mater) is strongly influenced by past clerks who went to that school, so it's a better use of your time to ask your school's clerkship office about where/with whom they've historically had luck placing clerks.

[Anonymous User]

What’s the school tier ranking for clerkship hiring? Is it still roughly:

Y
S/H
C/C/N
M/V/P
D/N/B
C/GULC
UCLA/Tex

With the obvious caveat that the holistic application obviously matters more than the school. Thoughts?

My two judges (SDNY, CA2, both highly selective) both treated it as Y > H/S/C >> C/N > other T14s. I don't think many people past law school know the rankings of or really distinguish between schools 7-13, with the exception that UVA does seem to have an unusually successful clerkship program (though personally I saw very few UVA clerkship applicants in NY).

Agreed that many judges (who are decades out of law school) don't think of schools in such detailed "tiers" like some folks on this forum do, so I don't think making these rankings is particularly helpful. This also overlooks the fact that a decent number of judges seem to have pretty strong regional preferences - Chicago/Michigan/Northwestern carry more weight in the Midwest, Berkeley/Stanford on the West Coast, UVA/Duke in the South, etc. And often a judge's perception of a school (that isn't their alma mater) is strongly influenced by past clerks who went to that school, so it's a better use of your time to ask your school's clerkship office about where/with whom they've historically had luck placing clerks.

Cannot stress this enough. So many judges have their own rankings of schools based on their own personal experiences with clerks. My judge actively felt that NYU and UVA clerks were more enjoyable and better team players and it reflected in her hiring to the point that her "top schools" was Yale, NYU, UVA. Have to imagine there are also judges out there that hate NYU and UVA clerks and treat them as the bottom of the T14.

[Anonymous User]

How normal/acceptable is it to clerk after three years of BigLaw experience these days? I recently applied to a district court clerkship for 2026-2027, but was instead offered a 2027-2028 position. The chambers seems like a good fit for several reasons, but the idea of clerking that far out from law school (as a 2024 grad) scares me a little. I know judges are hiring further out than they used to, but it still seems that the norm is 1-2 years of post-grad experience, not 3+. I worry that finishing the clerkship as a fourth year will make hiring/reintegration into BigLaw more difficult. The timing also seems to make a potential COA clerkship afterwards near impossible. Curious if anyone has recent experience with this conundrum.

[Anonymous User]

How normal/acceptable is it to clerk after three years of BigLaw experience these days? I recently applied to a district court clerkship for 2026-2027, but was instead offered a 2027-2028 position. The chambers seems like a good fit for several reasons, but the idea of clerking that far out from law school (as a 2024 grad) scares me a little. I know judges are hiring further out than they used to, but it still seems that the norm is 1-2 years of post-grad experience, not 3+. I worry that finishing the clerkship as a fourth year will make hiring/reintegration into BigLaw more difficult. The timing also seems to make a potential COA clerkship afterwards near impossible. Curious if anyone has recent experience with this conundrum.

So normal. It may disrupt your upward progression at the firm, but the benefits of clerking should, in most instances, supersede any negative effects. And it becomes a nonissue if you go elsewhere afterwards.

[Anonymous User]

3L - T14
URM
3.5 (mostly lit doctrinals, very heavy courseload)
LR (no ed board, but yes publication)
Federal Crim Clinic - Habeas win
2 named writing awards
Background: USAO (SDNY/EDNY/EDVA) + V5 Lit
RA for 3 Profs (Research topics: Con Law/Crim and Legal History/Fed Cts)
TA for 1 Prof in 1L core class
Solid letters of rec from 3 profs

I'm east-coast tied, so I'm considering waiting until I'm a year into biglaw before applying to up my chances. I'd aim at: SDNY, EDNY, EDPA, D. NJ, D. Conn.

Thoughts on odds? I acknowledge they may not be great but I think I have a decent non-grade soft factors. IF I did get a Dist. Ct. clerkship I'd try my hand at COA, but that's a future problem. Not putting the cart before the horse here. Thanks for input and advice!

[Anonymous User]

3L - T14
URM
3.5 (mostly lit doctrinals, very heavy courseload)
LR (no ed board, but yes publication)
Federal Crim Clinic - Habeas win
2 named writing awards
Background: USAO (SDNY/EDNY/EDVA) + V5 Lit
RA for 3 Profs (Research topics: Con Law/Crim and Legal History/Fed Cts)
TA for 1 Prof in 1L core class
Solid letters of rec from 3 profs

I'm east-coast tied, so I'm considering waiting until I'm a year into biglaw before applying to up my chances. I'd aim at: SDNY, EDNY, EDPA, D. NJ, D. Conn.

Thoughts on odds? I acknowledge they may not be great but I think I have a decent non-grade soft factors. IF I did get a Dist. Ct. clerkship I'd try my hand at COA, but that's a future problem. Not putting the cart before the horse here. Thanks for input and advice!

Could see this candidate getting a D. Conn. clerkship for sure.

[Anonymous User]

This probably isn't the right thread to put this in since it relates to post-clerkship hiring, but since there's currently no thread for hiring in 2026 and I'd really appreciate some input, I figured I'd ask here.

I was fortunate enough to secure a COA clerkship for 2025-2026 with a judge in my home state that prefers local ties over raw stats. I consider myself very lucky considering I'm graduating from a T50 with solid but not stellar grades (top grades in a couple of "tough" doctrinals but overall just shy of the top third and thus no latin honors).

What would be realistic exit opportunities for me considering I'll have the shiny gold star of a COA clerkship on my resume but significantly weaker stats than most COA clerks? My plan was to blanket government honors programs but since anything in the executive branch is obviously off the table for the time being, I'd be looking at firms instead. I have no geographic limitations and obviously there's no harm in shooting my shot wherever is hiring, but I'd like to get a rough idea of which places are likely to consider an app like mine. I'd appreciate any insights from former clerks in my position/that know someone in my position!

[Anonymous User]

This probably isn't the right thread to put this in since it relates to post-clerkship hiring, but since there's currently no thread for hiring in 2026 and I'd really appreciate some input, I figured I'd ask here.

I was fortunate enough to secure a COA clerkship for 2025-2026 with a judge in my home state that prefers local ties over raw stats. I consider myself very lucky considering I'm graduating from a T50 with solid but not stellar grades (top grades in a couple of "tough" doctrinals but overall just shy of the top third and thus no latin honors).

What would be realistic exit opportunities for me considering I'll have the shiny gold star of a COA clerkship on my resume but significantly weaker stats than most COA clerks? My plan was to blanket government honors programs but since anything in the executive branch is obviously off the table for the time being, I'd be looking at firms instead. I have no geographic limitations and obviously there's no harm in shooting my shot wherever is hiring, but I'd like to get a rough idea of which places are likely to consider an app like mine. I'd appreciate any insights from former clerks in my position/that know someone in my position!

Your best bet will still be in your home state. (I assume that this is also where you went to law school.) For larger markets, you’ll have to hustle a bit. However, I wouldn’t be surprised if you found a market paying gig. Look for firms that take clerks from schools of all stripes. You will have even better odds if your judge has a good network that you can tap into.

Will you end up at Cravath? I’d bet that you wouldn’t. But if you cast a wide net and do some serious networking, then I think that you could land a market position.

(I had a slightly similar background as a COA clerk, in that my school rank was a lot lower but my class rank was higher and with Latin honors. I ended up doing a government honors program, but I was able to drum up a good deal of interest from firms.)

[Anonymous User]

I'm a district court clerk in a competitive non-SDNY/DDC district and screen clerkship apps for my judge. A few pieces of advice for applicants:

1) For a district court clerkship, I strongly recommend providing a litigation-focused writing sample (like a bench memo or moot court brief) rather than a note/case comment. A couple of reasons. The first is obvious - since you'll be writing bench memos and draft opinions as a clerk, a sample which demonstrates that skillset is more helpful. But the other reason is that a judge is more likely to get distracted by the substance of your note than of memo/brief. Judges understand that good lawyers often make weak arguments because those arguments are the best of a set of bad options (particularly in criminal cases). So a judge is unlikely to read your brief in support of a motion to suppress and think, "Wow, I'd never grant this motion, so this applicant is out of his mind." On the other hand, you have no obligation to take whatever stance on the law you've taken in your note/comment. Last cycle, I saw one very strong applicant torpedoed in large part because my judge was totally unconvinced by his note. Would I make decisions on that basis if I were the judge? Maybe not. But I doubt my judge is alone.

2) There are some people who write LORs for applicants who really shouldn't be writing those letters. If you're writing a LOR and don't have more than three or four generic sentences to say about the applicant ("Applicant is a bright young man/woman who will be an asset to your chambers. He does his work in a thorough fashion and is a pleasure to work with. From reading his resume, it is clear that he is accomplished. I believe a clerkship will be very valuable to his career."), please tell the applicant. And as an applicant, pick the professors or lawyers who know you the best, even if they aren't the most famous people you know. (The bad LORs are very often written by big-name partners and celebrity professors.) When you ask for a LOR, perhaps consider reminding the recommender of things you've worked on together (good LOR writers will often ask you to do this anyway). A generic LOR doesn't actively hurt your application, but we get a lot of applicants, so it's a missed opportunity.

[Anonymous User]

Don't know who this is to in particular but just echoing a frustration and wondering also if anyone disagrees with me. District court clerks applying for appellate court clerkships. Don't just attach an opinion that you wrote for your district court judge as your writing sample. This is fundamentally useless to us as it is a reflection of back and forth editing and even if you say "minimal edits" in the cover letter we don't really know. Would much prefer some sort of memo you wrote on that opinion.

[Anonymous User]

Don't know who this is to in particular but just echoing a frustration and wondering also if anyone disagrees with me. District court clerks applying for appellate court clerkships. Don't just attach an opinion that you wrote for your district court judge as your writing sample. This is fundamentally useless to us as it is a reflection of back and forth editing and even if you say "minimal edits" in the cover letter we don't really know. Would much prefer some sort of memo you wrote on that opinion.

Disagree. I didn’t write memos as a district court clerk (and I’ve never heard of anyone doing that anecdotally in a fairly busy district). And I’ve written opinions that the judge took a look at, added/deleted a couple of words, and then told me it was good to go. So those are “minimal edits.”

[lavarman84]

Don't know who this is to in particular but just echoing a frustration and wondering also if anyone disagrees with me. District court clerks applying for appellate court clerkships. Don't just attach an opinion that you wrote for your district court judge as your writing sample. This is fundamentally useless to us as it is a reflection of back and forth editing and even if you say "minimal edits" in the cover letter we don't really know. Would much prefer some sort of memo you wrote on that opinion.

Disagree. I didn’t write memos as a district court clerk (and I’ve never heard of anyone doing that anecdotally in a fairly busy district). And I’ve written opinions that the judge took a look at, added/deleted a couple of words, and then told me it was good to go. So those are “minimal edits.”

That was also my experience as a D. Ct. clerk. I believe I only wrote one memo the entire clerkship, and that was examining the constitutional implications of a recurring issue before the court that my judge was concerned wasn't receiving adequate attention. It was definitely not the norm.

[Anonymous User]

Don't know who this is to in particular but just echoing a frustration and wondering also if anyone disagrees with me. District court clerks applying for appellate court clerkships. Don't just attach an opinion that you wrote for your district court judge as your writing sample. This is fundamentally useless to us as it is a reflection of back and forth editing and even if you say "minimal edits" in the cover letter we don't really know. Would much prefer some sort of memo you wrote on that opinion.

Disagree. I didn’t write memos as a district court clerk (and I’ve never heard of anyone doing that anecdotally in a fairly busy district). And I’ve written opinions that the judge took a look at, added/deleted a couple of words, and then told me it was good to go. So those are “minimal edits.”

That was also my experience as a D. Ct. clerk. I believe I only wrote one memo the entire clerkship, and that was examining the constitutional implications of a recurring issue before the court that my judge was concerned wasn't receiving adequate attention. It was definitely not the norm.

Piling on, but I agree with the disagrees. I may have written some kind of memo for one case where my D Ct judge sat on the COA by designation (I honestly don’t remember), but otherwise, not at all.

And I get that a COA can’t really know what “minimal edits” means, but I also wrote numerous orders where my D Ct just changed 2 or 3 words and that’s how it was published. DCts are busy and while I’m sure there are DCt judges who do the back-and-forth editing process, at least on certain motions/issues if not all, there are plenty of judges who don’t want to take that time. (Obviously this is on the basis that they agree with the reasoning and think the writing is fine, I don’t mean that they’re negligent - just that they’re pragmatic).

Obviously if a given COA judge (maybe one who didn’t clerk on a DCt?) feels this way about writing samples, posting here isn’t going to change that. But still wanted to comment.

[Anonymous User]

Don't know who this is to in particular but just echoing a frustration and wondering also if anyone disagrees with me. District court clerks applying for appellate court clerkships. Don't just attach an opinion that you wrote for your district court judge as your writing sample. This is fundamentally useless to us as it is a reflection of back and forth editing and even if you say "minimal edits" in the cover letter we don't really know. Would much prefer some sort of memo you wrote on that opinion.

Disagree. I didn’t write memos as a district court clerk (and I’ve never heard of anyone doing that anecdotally in a fairly busy district). And I’ve written opinions that the judge took a look at, added/deleted a couple of words, and then told me it was good to go. So those are “minimal edits.”

That was also my experience as a D. Ct. clerk. I believe I only wrote one memo the entire clerkship, and that was examining the constitutional implications of a recurring issue before the court that my judge was concerned wasn't receiving adequate attention. It was definitely not the norm.

Piling on, but I agree with the disagrees. I may have written some kind of memo for one case where my D Ct judge sat on the COA by designation (I honestly don’t remember), but otherwise, not at all.

And I get that a COA can’t really know what “minimal edits” means, but I also wrote numerous orders where my D Ct just changed 2 or 3 words and that’s how it was published. DCts are busy and while I’m sure there are DCt judges who do the back-and-forth editing process, at least on certain motions/issues if not all, there are plenty of judges who don’t want to take that time. (Obviously this is on the basis that they agree with the reasoning and think the writing is fine, I don’t mean that they’re negligent - just that they’re pragmatic).

Obviously if a given COA judge (maybe one who didn’t clerk on a DCt?) feels this way about writing samples, posting here isn’t going to change that. But still wanted to comment.

Guy everyone is responding too. I know that often we end up writing the whole thing with minimal edits (this happens a lot at the COA too). But there's no way to be completely sure of that and also the whole minimal edits thing leaves so much room for interpretation. Theres also this weird whole fiction that the judge wrote these and my judge sometimes gets a little upset at the insinuation that the signed name didn't write that. (Although she doesn't really look at writing samples, so I doubt that aspect is hurting a candidate.)

[Anonymous User]

Yeah, how to handle a writing sample without destroying the fiction of the judge writing everything can ruffle feathers. I never encountered judges who cared about this (in this specific context, I mean - not saying a clerk should start posting on social media about the orders they wrote or anything), but obviously some do. I sometimes wonder if there’s a COA/DCt divide on this, though it’s probably more idiosyncratic than that.

I always included a cover sheet saying that I was posting with the approval of my judge and describing the nature of the edits (like correction of typos and minimal stylistic changes), but I know it’s not going to please everyone.

For full disclosure, I think I only used my DCt writing sample for non-clerk jobs, so it’s fair to note judges’ potential issues with them. Still, though, expecting a memo from a DCt clerk doesn’t seem realistic.

[Anonymous User]

I am a current district court clerk who recently accepted an offer to join a firm (where I did not summer) after my clerkship ends in a few months. Right before I received an offer from my firm, I received and accepted an offer to clerk for a court of appeals judge in the 2026-2027 term. This will require me to leave the firm for the clerkship after about a year.

I wondering when I should tell the firm about this. I don’t want to tell them too early and self-marginalize or, worse, potentially jeopardize my offer. (I need a job and am concerned about the economy/job market). On the other hand, I don’t want to burn bridges by telling them too late. Ideally, I’d like to work at the firm for a year, clerk on the COA for a year, and then return to the firm after my clerkship.

Would it be reasonable to wait to tell them about the clerkship until after I’ve started at the firm and hopefully gotten my feet under me?

[Anonymous User]

Thoughts on my competitiveness for COA down the road? I imagine it's a long shot, but looking for an honest handicap of my odds:

- 3L at a T50, Top 10%
- Starting a 2-year district court clerkship this fall (different region from school/home, not a major market)
- LR; Moot Court e-board, 2 interscholastic comps
- TA for Appellate Advocacy, RA for a Prof

Also think I might want to work BL first before going back for a second clerkship (should I get one). Would that help my chances?

[Anonymous User]

Thoughts on my competitiveness for COA down the road? I imagine it's a long shot, but looking for an honest handicap of my odds:

- 3L at a T50, Top 10%
- Starting a 2-year district court clerkship this fall (different region from school/home, not a major market)
- LR; Moot Court e-board, 2 interscholastic comps
- TA for Appellate Advocacy, RA for a Prof

Also think I might want to work BL first before going back for a second clerkship (should I get one). Would that help my chances?

For the vast majority of circuit judges, zilch without some strong hook. For random judges in flyover country, basically zilch without some strong hook.

[Anonymous User]

Thoughts on my competitiveness for COA down the road? I imagine it's a long shot, but looking for an honest handicap of my odds:

- 3L at a T50, Top 10%
- Starting a 2-year district court clerkship this fall (different region from school/home, not a major market)
- LR; Moot Court e-board, 2 interscholastic comps
- TA for Appellate Advocacy, RA for a Prof

Also think I might want to work BL first before going back for a second clerkship (should I get one). Would that help my chances?

For the vast majority of circuit judges, zilch without some strong hook. For random judges in flyover country, basically zilch without some strong hook.

Given the district court clerkship, I'm not as down on your chances as the above poster. Are there COA judges who sit in the same city as your district judge (and thus probably knows your judge)? That would probably be your best shot, as would any COA judges in the state where your school is/who have hired from your school before. Some judges (Griffin on CA6 comes to mind) only hire folks with previous clerkships, and that + being in a rural area tends to limit their pool to the point where you might be competitive.

[Anonymous User]

Thoughts on my competitiveness for COA down the road? I imagine it's a long shot, but looking for an honest handicap of my odds:

- 3L at a T50, Top 10%
- Starting a 2-year district court clerkship this fall (different region from school/home, not a major market)
- LR; Moot Court e-board, 2 interscholastic comps
- TA for Appellate Advocacy, RA for a Prof

Also think I might want to work BL first before going back for a second clerkship (should I get one). Would that help my chances?

For the vast majority of circuit judges, zilch without some strong hook. For random judges in flyover country, basically zilch without some strong hook.

Given the district court clerkship, I'm not as down on your chances as the above poster. Are there COA judges who sit in the same city as your district judge (and thus probably knows your judge)? That would probably be your best shot, as would any COA judges in the state where your school is/who have hired from your school before. Some judges (Griffin on CA6 comes to mind) only hire folks with previous clerkships, and that + being in a rural area tends to limit their pool to the point where you might be competitive.

Anon OP here. None in the same city as my judge, but some in the same district. Kind of figured the ones in my school's market would be my best bet. There is some track record of it but not much of it. A couple of judges in my school's area have hired from here, but it's in a very competitive circuit (2/9/DC). Just gotta work for it and see if the dice roll my way I suppose.