Clerks Taking Questions Forum

[Anonymous User]

How much does personalized, enthusiastic outreach from a Big Name professor and good LORs compensate for other application deficits?

Like all things clerk-y, it depends on the name, the judge, and the deficits. It will be most helpful if the Big Name knows the judge and the judge respects their opinion.

[Anonymous User]

For circuit judges I tend to get the impression that the typical route is to clerk right after law school or a year or two after. Is the product of a lack of people clerking for circuit judges 3+ years after law school due to just less interest or do circuit judges at a certain point actually see too much work experience as negative? I know, of course, it is going to depend on the judge, but I'm speaking more in general terms.

[Anonymous User]

For circuit judges I tend to get the impression that the typical route is to clerk right after law school or a year or two after. Is the product of a lack of people clerking for circuit judges 3+ years after law school due to just less interest or do circuit judges at a certain point actually see too much work experience as negative? I know, of course, it is going to depend on the judge, but I'm speaking more in general terms.

I think it’s a bit of both. Anecdotally, I have heard that more COA judges see clerking as a kind of apprenticeship to be completed before starting practice, which I think historically was kind of the idea. This is purely word of mouth though, so I can’t verify or point to specific judges.

I think also that due to the nature of the work, DCt judges benefit more from clerks having practice experience than COA judges do. So it’s probably not as much that COA judges see work experience as a negative as that they don’t prioritize it, and that DCt judges actively see it as a positive.

[Anonymous User]

For circuit judges I tend to get the impression that the typical route is to clerk right after law school or a year or two after. Is the product of a lack of people clerking for circuit judges 3+ years after law school due to just less interest or do circuit judges at a certain point actually see too much work experience as negative? I know, of course, it is going to depend on the judge, but I'm speaking more in general terms.

I think it’s a bit of both. Anecdotally, I have heard that more COA judges see clerking as a kind of apprenticeship to be completed before starting practice, which I think historically was kind of the idea. This is purely word of mouth though, so I can’t verify or point to specific judges.

I think also that due to the nature of the work, DCt judges benefit more from clerks having practice experience than COA judges do. So it’s probably not as much that COA judges see work experience as a negative as that they don’t prioritize it, and that DCt judges actively see it as a positive.

(I am the person you're replying to). For someone like me who wants to clerk on a circuit, but is young (26) and really is not in a place to apply for 2024 or 2025 terms. But would want to apply for 2027 or 2028 terms when they open. Do you think being that long out of law school would be a disadvantage?

[Anonymous User]

For circuit judges I tend to get the impression that the typical route is to clerk right after law school or a year or two after. Is the product of a lack of people clerking for circuit judges 3+ years after law school due to just less interest or do circuit judges at a certain point actually see too much work experience as negative? I know, of course, it is going to depend on the judge, but I'm speaking more in general terms.

I think it’s a bit of both. Anecdotally, I have heard that more COA judges see clerking as a kind of apprenticeship to be completed before starting practice, which I think historically was kind of the idea. This is purely word of mouth though, so I can’t verify or point to specific judges.

I think also that due to the nature of the work, DCt judges benefit more from clerks having practice experience than COA judges do. So it’s probably not as much that COA judges see work experience as a negative as that they don’t prioritize it, and that DCt judges actively see it as a positive.

(I am the person you're replying to). For someone like me who wants to clerk on a circuit, but is young (26) and really is not in a place to apply for 2024 or 2025 terms. But would want to apply for 2027 or 2028 terms when they open. Do you think being that long out of law school would be a disadvantage?

Maybe for a small number of judges, but it would be a benefit for some others. I'd guess about 10% of circuit judges require 3+ years of work experience. Maybe 10-20% (skewing older) only hire people right out of law school, or within a year or so of graduation. The rest are open minded and hire people they think would be good fits. I wouldn't recommend applying straight out if you were a wunderkind who finished college at 19, or if you've been practicing 8+ years, but anyone between those two extremes is a pretty normal clerkship applicant.

[Anonymous User]

For circuit judges I tend to get the impression that the typical route is to clerk right after law school or a year or two after. Is the product of a lack of people clerking for circuit judges 3+ years after law school due to just less interest or do circuit judges at a certain point actually see too much work experience as negative? I know, of course, it is going to depend on the judge, but I'm speaking more in general terms.

I think it’s a bit of both. Anecdotally, I have heard that more COA judges see clerking as a kind of apprenticeship to be completed before starting practice, which I think historically was kind of the idea. This is purely word of mouth though, so I can’t verify or point to specific judges.

I think also that due to the nature of the work, DCt judges benefit more from clerks having practice experience than COA judges do. So it’s probably not as much that COA judges see work experience as a negative as that they don’t prioritize it, and that DCt judges actively see it as a positive.

(I am the person you're replying to). For someone like me who wants to clerk on a circuit, but is young (26) and really is not in a place to apply for 2024 or 2025 terms. But would want to apply for 2027 or 2028 terms when they open. Do you think being that long out of law school would be a disadvantage?

Maybe for a small number of judges, but it would be a benefit for some others. I'd guess about 10% of circuit judges require 3+ years of work experience. Maybe 10-20% (skewing older) only hire people right out of law school, or within a year or so of graduation. The rest are open minded and hire people they think would be good fits. I wouldn't recommend applying straight out if you were a wunderkind who finished college at 19, or if you've been practicing 8+ years, but anyone between those two extremes is a pretty normal clerkship applicant.

Thanks, this is good to hear.

[Anonymous User]

How much does personalized, enthusiastic outreach from a Big Name professor and good LORs compensate for other application deficits?

Like all things clerk-y, it depends on the name, the judge, and the deficits. It will be most helpful if the Big Name knows the judge and the judge respects their opinion.

For our hiring (competitive district court), the fact that the professor is well known would have no impact whatsoever. They key is for the prof to know the judge, not for the prof to be notable. This is just one tiny data point of many, so take it with a grain of salt.

[Anonymous User]

How much does personalized, enthusiastic outreach from a Big Name professor and good LORs compensate for other application deficits?

Like all things clerk-y, it depends on the name, the judge, and the deficits. It will be most helpful if the Big Name knows the judge and the judge respects their opinion.

For our hiring (competitive district court), the fact that the professor is well known would have no impact whatsoever. They key is for the prof to know the judge, not for the prof to be notable. This is just one tiny data point of many, so take it with a grain of salt.

Yeah some very well-connected clerkship recommenders are not really famous for their academic work, they just know a lot of judges. Like the most famous power recommender of all, Amy Chua.

[comingoffalittleshy]

Is it normal for a judge to send someone a rejection by mail even when they didn't interview?

[Anonymous User]

How much does personalized, enthusiastic outreach from a Big Name professor and good LORs compensate for other application deficits?

Like all things clerk-y, it depends on the name, the judge, and the deficits. It will be most helpful if the Big Name knows the judge and the judge respects their opinion.

For our hiring (competitive district court), the fact that the professor is well known would have no impact whatsoever. They key is for the prof to know the judge, not for the prof to be notable. This is just one tiny data point of many, so take it with a grain of salt.

Yeah some very well-connected clerkship recommenders are not really famous for their academic work, they just know a lot of judges. Like the most famous power recommender of all, Amy Chua.

Nicole Garnett at ND is looking to be the next Amy Chua.

[Anonymous User]

Is it normal for a judge to send someone a rejection by mail even when they didn't interview?

Most judges don't but a handful do send a form letter to everyone who applied announcing that the position has been filled.

[Anonymous User]

Do judges or clerks looking over transcripts care about credit load. Have had a 13–16 credit load throughout my entire time in law school and thinking of taking it easy 3L spring with a 12 credit load (which is the minimum for my school). Don't want to do this though if this is potentially going to cause any issues.

[lavarman84]

Do judges or clerks looking over transcripts care about credit load. Have had a 13–16 credit load throughout my entire time in law school and thinking of taking it easy 3L spring with a 12 credit load (which is the minimum for my school). Don't want to do this though if this is potentially going to cause any issues.

If a judge does, it's not the norm in my experience. Enjoy your 12 credits.

[Anonymous User]

Do judges or clerks looking over transcripts care about credit load. Have had a 13–16 credit load throughout my entire time in law school and thinking of taking it easy 3L spring with a 12 credit load (which is the minimum for my school). Don't want to do this though if this is potentially going to cause any issues.

If a judge does, it's not the norm in my experience. Enjoy your 12 credits.

Good enough for me haha. As long as it's not the norm! Thanks!

[Anonymous User]

I am clerking for a Judge in his/her late 80s in 2025 and I know this is morbid, but I am worried what would happen if they die? I know there is a practice in SCOTUS that the clerks get placed with other Justices. Is that typically done on the circuit level too?

[Anonymous User]

Incoming 2023 bankruptcy clerk that's a bit concerned about job prospects after the clerkship. My clerkship is in a flyover district that's far from my desired major market. I wasn't able to break into the market during OCI and I'm concerned about the job search during my clerkship. Any advice about when should I start networking? I'm willing to go into public interest or smaller firms but I'm concerned about how a clerkship in bankruptcy might be seen for litigation positions. Are there transactional groups I can look into?

Any advice from bankruptcy clerks is appreciated

[Anonymous User]

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[Anonymous User]

Current 2L hoping to apply on plan. Very strong grades and law review. Only in 10 credits this semester: 2 doctrinals, Advanced Legal Research, and a pass/fail reading group.

Is this okay, or should I make a last-ditch effort to add some writing credits (normal add/drop deadline has passed)?

10 credits period or 10 graded credits? If it is the former, I'd try to add something else. Normally the amount of credits does not matter, but 10 credits is pretty low, didn't even know you could do that absent second semester 3L.

[Anonymous User]

Current 2L hoping to apply on plan. Very strong grades and law review. Only in 10 credits this semester: 2 doctrinals, Advanced Legal Research, and a pass/fail reading group.

Is this okay, or should I make a last-ditch effort to add some writing credits (normal add/drop deadline has passed)?

10 credits period or 10 graded credits? If it is the former, I'd try to add something else. Normally the amount of credits does not matter, but 10 credits is pretty low, didn't even know you could do that absent second semester 3L.

10 credits total (the minimum at my law school), of which 9 are graded and one is pass/fail.

[Anonymous User]

Current 2L hoping to apply on plan. Very strong grades and law review. Only in 10 credits this semester: 2 doctrinals, Advanced Legal Research, and a pass/fail reading group.

Is this okay, or should I make a last-ditch effort to add some writing credits (normal add/drop deadline has passed)?

10 credits period or 10 graded credits? If it is the former, I'd try to add something else. Normally the amount of credits does not matter, but 10 credits is pretty low, didn't even know you could do that absent second semester 3L.

10 credits total (the minimum at my law school), of which 9 are graded and one is pass/fail.

What were the credit amounts they have you signed up for during 1L? If it was 15, then 10 may be kind of a drop off. But if 10 credit is the minimum at your school maybe it's alright.

[Anonymous User]

Current 2L hoping to apply on plan. Very strong grades and law review. Only in 10 credits this semester: 2 doctrinals, Advanced Legal Research, and a pass/fail reading group.

Is this okay, or should I make a last-ditch effort to add some writing credits (normal add/drop deadline has passed)?

10 credits period or 10 graded credits? If it is the former, I'd try to add something else. Normally the amount of credits does not matter, but 10 credits is pretty low, didn't even know you could do that absent second semester 3L.

10 credits total (the minimum at my law school), of which 9 are graded and one is pass/fail.

What were the credit amounts they have you signed up for during 1L? If it was 15, then 10 may be kind of a drop off. But if 10 credit is the minimum at your school maybe it's alright.

At HLS you take 18 first semester 1L, 16–18 second semester 1L, and then from 10–16 thereafter.

[Pneumonia]

Current 2L hoping to apply on plan. Very strong grades and law review. Only in 10 credits this semester: 2 doctrinals, Advanced Legal Research, and a pass/fail reading group.

Is this okay, or should I make a last-ditch effort to add some writing credits (normal add/drop deadline has passed)?

This is fine. Two doctrinals among four classes total is an appropriate workload regardless of how many credits your school allocates (I'm guessing this is HLS?).

[Anonymous User]

deleted

[Pneumonia]

Yeah this is normal for HLS, no sweat.

[EddieM]

Hi all. How much more valuable is a state supreme court clerkship likely to be than a state court of appeals clerkship? Particularly in the many-years-down-the-road timeframe.