2017-2018 Clerkship Application Thread Forum

[grand inquisitor]

DO you all send clerkship application withdrawal letters out if you've sent paper applications but have recently snagged a clerkship?

it would be polite but I didn't and I never got any shit for it. there might be one judge's chambers who call and you have to politely decline.

[Anonymous User]

0/5 for COA interview success rate. This process is soooo fun

I went 0/5 then got 9/DC/2. Interview process is miserable and your success rate has little to do with your quality as a candidate. Good luck!

[Anonymous User]

0/5 for COA interview success rate. This process is soooo fun

I went 0/5 then got 9/DC/2. Interview process is miserable and your success rate has little to do with your quality as a candidate. Good luck!

Different anon, but it's getting hard to stay positive. In all the apps I've sent over the past 7 months, I have heard zero peep from any human about anything. Gonna send a ton more after fall grades come out, but I want anything, even a rejection, at this point. Not a hundred people saying nothing ever.

[Anonymous User]

0/5 for COA interview success rate. This process is soooo fun

I went 0/5 then got 9/DC/2. Interview process is miserable and your success rate has little to do with your quality as a candidate. Good luck!

Different anon, but it's getting hard to stay positive. In all the apps I've sent over the past 7 months, I have heard zero peep from any human about anything. Gonna send a ton more after fall grades come out, but I want anything, even a rejection, at this point. Not a hundred people saying nothing ever.

Same anon (went 0/5) as above. It is rough, to be sure though just to clarify I was speaking about interviews as in, having an interview with a Judge/clerks and not getting an offer. I think if you are not getting interviews it might be worth taking a second look at your application package and seeing if there is anyway to mix it up. I am also only familiar with the COA application process, I know d. ct. might be slightly different. Regardless, keep on keepin' on!

[Anonymous User]

0/5 for COA interview success rate. This process is soooo fun

I went 0/5 then got 9/DC/2. Interview process is miserable and your success rate has little to do with your quality as a candidate. Good luck!

Different anon, but it's getting hard to stay positive. In all the apps I've sent over the past 7 months, I have heard zero peep from any human about anything. Gonna send a ton more after fall grades come out, but I want anything, even a rejection, at this point. Not a hundred people saying nothing ever.

Same anon (went 0/5) as above. It is rough, to be sure though just to clarify I was speaking about interviews as in, having an interview with a Judge/clerks and not getting an offer. I think if you are not getting interviews it might be worth taking a second look at your application package and seeing if there is anyway to mix it up. I am also only familiar with the COA application process, I know d. ct. might be slightly different. Regardless, keep on keepin' on!

If you've gotten several COA interviews it also means your qualifications and recommendations are superb. Like near top of the class at a T14 with faculty going to bat. The difference between hearing nothing (which is very common) and getting six interviews (extremely rare) is two fundamentally different candidates.

[Anonymous User]

0/5 for COA interview success rate. This process is soooo fun

I went 0/5 then got 9/DC/2. Interview process is miserable and your success rate has little to do with your quality as a candidate. Good luck!

Different anon, but it's getting hard to stay positive. In all the apps I've sent over the past 7 months, I have heard zero peep from any human about anything. Gonna send a ton more after fall grades come out, but I want anything, even a rejection, at this point. Not a hundred people saying nothing ever.

Same anon (went 0/5) as above. It is rough, to be sure though just to clarify I was speaking about interviews as in, having an interview with a Judge/clerks and not getting an offer. I think if you are not getting interviews it might be worth taking a second look at your application package and seeing if there is anyway to mix it up. I am also only familiar with the COA application process, I know d. ct. might be slightly different. Regardless, keep on keepin' on!

If you've gotten several COA interviews it also means your qualifications and recommendations are superb. Like near top of the class at a T14 with faculty going to bat. The difference between hearing nothing (which is very common) and getting six interviews (extremely rare) is two fundamentally different candidates.

Fwiw (not much I know), I do think I'm a fairly good candidate, and not shooting above my range (COA non-2/9/DC). Maybe I am though, I might be mistaken, but I have tippy top grades at a T14, strong recs (including phone calls), and a lot of nothing in response. Perhaps there is something fundamentally wrong with a piece of my application. I will reassess after finals. ETA: 7 months, dead silence anon here.

[Anonymous User]

speaking from experience (2L who got 2/9/DC this summer): you need phone calls to be made when chambers is actually reviewing clerkship applications. otherwise the phone call is liable to be forgotten. hustling to find out when chambers is taking a look at clerkship applications is what you need to do (talk to older students, clerkship office, or even ex-clerks of the judge, if alumni of your school)-- if you can find a few COA chambers that are actively reviewing, getting a phone call made on your behalf will likely net or an interview or two, assuming the grades/recs are good-great.

[Anonymous User]

speaking from experience (2L who got 2/9/DC this summer): you need phone calls to be made when chambers is actually reviewing clerkship applications. otherwise the phone call is liable to be forgotten. hustling to find out when chambers is taking a look at clerkship applications is what you need to do (talk to older students, clerkship office, or even ex-clerks of the judge, if alumni of your school)-- if you can find a few COA chambers that are actively reviewing, getting a phone call made on your behalf will likely net or an interview or two, assuming the grades/recs are good-great.

This is strong advice though I want to say it is possible to get a COA clerkship without a call to chambers I'm 99% certain no one called on my behalf (seems odd it would happen without my knowing) and I'm the 0/5 anon with a 2/9/DC clerkship. Chambers are all different and while calls are certainly great, they aren't absolutely necessary. Who knows what jumps out at a clerk/judge when reviewing applications? A lot of it is totally random. I realize this isn't entirely helpful but :shrug: just throwin' it out there.

[Anonymous User]

speaking from experience (2L who got 2/9/DC this summer): you need phone calls to be made when chambers is actually reviewing clerkship applications. otherwise the phone call is liable to be forgotten. hustling to find out when chambers is taking a look at clerkship applications is what you need to do (talk to older students, clerkship office, or even ex-clerks of the judge, if alumni of your school)-- if you can find a few COA chambers that are actively reviewing, getting a phone call made on your behalf will likely net or an interview or two, assuming the grades/recs are good-great.

This is strong advice though I want to say it is possible to get a COA clerkship without a call to chambers I'm 99% certain no one called on my behalf (seems odd it would happen without my knowing) and I'm the 0/5 anon with a 2/9/DC clerkship. Chambers are all different and while calls are certainly great, they aren't absolutely necessary. Who knows what jumps out at a clerk/judge when reviewing applications? A lot of it is totally random. I realize this isn't entirely helpful but :shrug: just throwin' it out there.

Also speaking from experience (2L with a feeder judge) -- It definitely is possible, but it's hard to emphasize how helpful it is when a professor calls on your behalf. If you are truly interested in doing everything it takes to get a clerkship, you should get into classes of professors that have clerked/have connections to judges and kill it.

[Anonymous User]

speaking from experience (2L who got 2/9/DC this summer): you need phone calls to be made when chambers is actually reviewing clerkship applications. otherwise the phone call is liable to be forgotten. hustling to find out when chambers is taking a look at clerkship applications is what you need to do (talk to older students, clerkship office, or even ex-clerks of the judge, if alumni of your school)-- if you can find a few COA chambers that are actively reviewing, getting a phone call made on your behalf will likely net or an interview or two, assuming the grades/recs are good-great.

This is strong advice though I want to say it is possible to get a COA clerkship without a call to chambers I'm 99% certain no one called on my behalf (seems odd it would happen without my knowing) and I'm the 0/5 anon with a 2/9/DC clerkship. Chambers are all different and while calls are certainly great, they aren't absolutely necessary. Who knows what jumps out at a clerk/judge when reviewing applications? A lot of it is totally random. I realize this isn't entirely helpful but :shrug: just throwin' it out there.

Also speaking from experience (2L with a feeder judge) -- It definitely is possible, but it's hard to emphasize how helpful it is when a professor calls on your behalf. If you are truly interested in doing everything it takes to get a clerkship, you should get into classes of professors that have clerked/have connections to judges and kill it.

Mind sharing what your credentials were for the feeder?

[Anonymous User]

speaking from experience (2L who got 2/9/DC this summer): you need phone calls to be made when chambers is actually reviewing clerkship applications. otherwise the phone call is liable to be forgotten. hustling to find out when chambers is taking a look at clerkship applications is what you need to do (talk to older students, clerkship office, or even ex-clerks of the judge, if alumni of your school)-- if you can find a few COA chambers that are actively reviewing, getting a phone call made on your behalf will likely net or an interview or two, assuming the grades/recs are good-great.

This is strong advice though I want to say it is possible to get a COA clerkship without a call to chambers I'm 99% certain no one called on my behalf (seems odd it would happen without my knowing) and I'm the 0/5 anon with a 2/9/DC clerkship. Chambers are all different and while calls are certainly great, they aren't absolutely necessary. Who knows what jumps out at a clerk/judge when reviewing applications? A lot of it is totally random. I realize this isn't entirely helpful but :shrug: just throwin' it out there.

Also speaking from experience (2L with a feeder judge) -- It definitely is possible, but it's hard to emphasize how helpful it is when a professor calls on your behalf. If you are truly interested in doing everything it takes to get a clerkship, you should get into classes of professors that have clerked/have connections to judges and kill it.

Mind sharing what your credentials were for the feeder?

well within the top 10%, but not the very top, LR, CCN. Two profs called on my behalf the day of the interview and I'm confident I would not have gotten the interview or clerkship without their help.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks and congrats!

[Anonymous User]

Is there a rough estimate for what it takes to get a feeder at a non CCN t14? I have a non-feeder lined up that I am really happy about, but I am starting to wonder whether I might be competitive for a second CoA with a feeder. Currently roughly top 10% 3L at Berk/Duke/Mich/UVA, on LR (not management), published.

Is a second CoA with SCOTUS ambitions completely irrational? I think I remember the SCOTUS thread saying that you need to be like top 2 to 3 people at a non-CCN, which is likely out of reach for me mathematically.

[Anonymous User]

Is there a rough estimate for what it takes to get a feeder at a non CCN t14? I have a non-feeder lined up that I am really happy about, but I am starting to wonder whether I might be competitive for a second CoA with a feeder. Currently roughly top 10% 3L at Berk/Duke/Mich/UVA, on LR (not management), published.

Is a second CoA with SCOTUS ambitions completely irrational? I think I remember the SCOTUS thread saying that you need to be like top 2 to 3 people at a non-CCN, which is likely out of reach for me mathematically.

I'm the 2L with the feeder at CCN, so take this with a grain of salt, but as someone thinking about this, I get the impression that there are two ways to get SCOTUS. First, the school will get behind 1-3 candidates every year and push hard for them to get on the Court (I'd guess that this is why people say you have to be a top 2-3 student at a T14 generally). Second, you could have connections to professors or practicing attorneys that have personal relationships with the Justice (usually clerked for him/her).

If you get a feeder judge in a second clerkship, I think you'd have some (probably small) chance at SCOTUS, but really you need the school or well known professors vouching for you.

Edit: I know there is a SCOTUS (former?) clerk answering questions on a different thread, so you may want to ask there.

[Anonymous User]

I'm the anon who asked about SCOTUS.
Thanks, that's really helpful. I think I might be able to have some professors with some connections back me, and could make those connections stronger next semester. Though I don't know if they would be hesitant to back me though because they would have to back the current top 3 students, etc. I guess I can cross that bridge if I ever get there.

All this might be moot though if it's already too late for 2018-19 feeders. When is too late for that?

Also, to the other anon, are you aiming for SCOTUS? If so, good luck!

[Anonymous User]

I'm the anon who asked about SCOTUS.
Thanks, that's really helpful. I think I might be able to have some professors with some connections back me, and could make those connections stronger next semester. Though I don't know if they would be hesitant to back me though because they would have to back the current top 3 students, etc. I guess I can cross that bridge if I ever get there.

All this might be moot though if it's already too late for 2018-19 feeders. When is too late for that?

Also, to the other anon, are you aiming for SCOTUS? If so, good luck!

Same anon as above -- it's definitely not too late, but be aware that some of the very top judges are starting to interview for 2018-19 now. I'd recommend talking to an administrator or professor in your school ASAP to hear what they think your chances are. If they think you'd have a shot, get the application materials together over break and start sending out some apps.

Some other ideas other than straight back-to-back COAs:
1. You could try and get a really well known DC judge (think Boasberg or Feinerman) so that you have a valuable experience in case you don't get the court.
2. You could try for certain COA judges that are known to give you lighter workloads and try to publish a few papers during that year.
3. You could try for fellowships (fed government or academic) in order to boost your credentials.

Overall I think that outside the very top candidates, more and more clerks have taken at least a few years off doing other (usually cool & prestigious) things.

Edit: For the second option, I've heard about certain COA judges -- some on senior status, some just doing most work on their own -- that are known to be pre-academia type experiences in terms of giving you an opportunity to publish. I can't remember any of them off the top of my head unfortunately

[Anonymous User]

I'm the anon who asked about SCOTUS.
Thanks, that's really helpful. I think I might be able to have some professors with some connections back me, and could make those connections stronger next semester. Though I don't know if they would be hesitant to back me though because they would have to back the current top 3 students, etc. I guess I can cross that bridge if I ever get there.

All this might be moot though if it's already too late for 2018-19 feeders. When is too late for that?

Also, to the other anon, are you aiming for SCOTUS? If so, good luck!

Same anon as above -- it's definitely not too late, but be aware that some of the very top judges are starting to interview for 2018-19 now. I'd recommend talking to an administrator or professor in your school ASAP to hear what they think your chances are. If they think you'd have a shot, get the application materials together over break and start sending out some apps.

Some other ideas other than straight back-to-back COAs:
1. You could try and get a really well known DC judge (think Boasberg or Feinerman) so that you have a valuable experience in case you don't get the court.
2. You could try for certain COA judges that are known to give you lighter workloads and try to publish a few papers during that year.
3. You could try for fellowships (fed government or academic) in order to boost your credentials.

Overall I think that outside the very top candidates, more and more clerks have taken at least a few years off doing other (usually cool & prestigious) things.

Edit: For the second option, I've heard about certain COA judges -- some on senior status, some just doing most work on their own -- that are known to be pre-academia type experiences in terms of giving you an opportunity to publish. I can't remember any of them off the top of my head unfortunately

A few major 2d and 9th cir judges have interviewed and started making offers for 2018-19 (and some even moved earlier this past summer). The judge I'll be clerking for recently took an 18-19 clerk. It's tough to know when the "right time" to apply is anymore, but I'd say now is as good a time as any.

There is a certain advantage to getting your clerkship while you're a 2L or right after. If you're like me and most people I know and you mailed in 3L, your grades take a big hit. So it's nice to not have to show your transcript to anyone. No way I could get my COA judge if chambers saw my full transcript after this. Of course if you're seriously considering SCOTUS I guess you have to keep trying.

[Anonymous User]

speaking from experience (2L who got 2/9/DC this summer): you need phone calls to be made when chambers is actually reviewing clerkship applications. otherwise the phone call is liable to be forgotten. hustling to find out when chambers is taking a look at clerkship applications is what you need to do (talk to older students, clerkship office, or even ex-clerks of the judge, if alumni of your school)-- if you can find a few COA chambers that are actively reviewing, getting a phone call made on your behalf will likely net or an interview or two, assuming the grades/recs are good-great.

This is strong advice though I want to say it is possible to get a COA clerkship without a call to chambers I'm 99% certain no one called on my behalf (seems odd it would happen without my knowing) and I'm the 0/5 anon with a 2/9/DC clerkship. Chambers are all different and while calls are certainly great, they aren't absolutely necessary. Who knows what jumps out at a clerk/judge when reviewing applications? A lot of it is totally random. I realize this isn't entirely helpful but :shrug: just throwin' it out there.

Also speaking from experience (2L with a feeder judge) -- It definitely is possible, but it's hard to emphasize how helpful it is when a professor calls on your behalf. If you are truly interested in doing everything it takes to get a clerkship, you should get into classes of professors that have clerked/have connections to judges and kill it.

3L with 2/9/DC: Also, don't underestimate speaking with the clerkship counselors at your school to see if they have been in touch with any judges directly. Having them make sure (or at least having them try to make sure) that your application gets reviewed can make a huge difference (at least did for me). As others have said, not sure how helpful that is, but its something.

[Anonymous User]

speaking from experience (2L who got 2/9/DC this summer): you need phone calls to be made when chambers is actually reviewing clerkship applications. otherwise the phone call is liable to be forgotten. hustling to find out when chambers is taking a look at clerkship applications is what you need to do (talk to older students, clerkship office, or even ex-clerks of the judge, if alumni of your school)-- if you can find a few COA chambers that are actively reviewing, getting a phone call made on your behalf will likely net or an interview or two, assuming the grades/recs are good-great.

This is strong advice though I want to say it is possible to get a COA clerkship without a call to chambers I'm 99% certain no one called on my behalf (seems odd it would happen without my knowing) and I'm the 0/5 anon with a 2/9/DC clerkship. Chambers are all different and while calls are certainly great, they aren't absolutely necessary. Who knows what jumps out at a clerk/judge when reviewing applications? A lot of it is totally random. I realize this isn't entirely helpful but :shrug: just throwin' it out there.

Also speaking from experience (2L with a feeder judge) -- It definitely is possible, but it's hard to emphasize how helpful it is when a professor calls on your behalf. If you are truly interested in doing everything it takes to get a clerkship, you should get into classes of professors that have clerked/have connections to judges and kill it.

My one professor who called said he would call two judges and that's it. Had him call specifically when I knew they were reviewing, and nothing came of it (and I know the prof has a very good relationship with the one judge). I'm honestly curious what I may be missing, some glaring hole in my application perhaps.

[Anonymous User]

0/5 for COA interview success rate. This process is soooo fun

I went 0/5 then got 9/DC/2. Interview process is miserable and your success rate has little to do with your quality as a candidate. Good luck!

Different anon, but it's getting hard to stay positive. In all the apps I've sent over the past 7 months, I have heard zero peep from any human about anything. Gonna send a ton more after fall grades come out, but I want anything, even a rejection, at this point. Not a hundred people saying nothing ever.

Same anon (went 0/5) as above. It is rough, to be sure though just to clarify I was speaking about interviews as in, having an interview with a Judge/clerks and not getting an offer. I think if you are not getting interviews it might be worth taking a second look at your application package and seeing if there is anyway to mix it up. I am also only familiar with the COA application process, I know d. ct. might be slightly different. Regardless, keep on keepin' on!

If you've gotten several COA interviews it also means your qualifications and recommendations are superb. Like near top of the class at a T14 with faculty going to bat. The difference between hearing nothing (which is very common) and getting six interviews (extremely rare) is two fundamentally different candidates.

Fwiw (not much I know), I do think I'm a fairly good candidate, and not shooting above my range (COA non-2/9/DC). Maybe I am though, I might be mistaken, but I have tippy top grades at a T14, strong recs (including phone calls), and a lot of nothing in response. Perhaps there is something fundamentally wrong with a piece of my application. I will reassess after finals. ETA: 7 months, dead silence anon here.

(1) There's probably something wrong with your resume, cover letter, and/or writing sample. You should have your clerkship counselor and a friend you trust look over your application materials with a fine comb.

(2) If you've applied to less than 100 judges, this is not completely abnormal.

(3) Don't solely rely on OSCAR.

[Anonymous User]

I'm the anon who asked about SCOTUS.
Thanks, that's really helpful. I think I might be able to have some professors with some connections back me, and could make those connections stronger next semester. Though I don't know if they would be hesitant to back me though because they would have to back the current top 3 students, etc. I guess I can cross that bridge if I ever get there.

All this might be moot though if it's already too late for 2018-19 feeders. When is too late for that?

Also, to the other anon, are you aiming for SCOTUS? If so, good luck!

Same anon as above -- it's definitely not too late, but be aware that some of the very top judges are starting to interview for 2018-19 now. I'd recommend talking to an administrator or professor in your school ASAP to hear what they think your chances are. If they think you'd have a shot, get the application materials together over break and start sending out some apps.

Some other ideas other than straight back-to-back COAs:
1. You could try and get a really well known DC judge (think Boasberg or Feinerman) so that you have a valuable experience in case you don't get the court.
2. You could try for certain COA judges that are known to give you lighter workloads and try to publish a few papers during that year.
3. You could try for fellowships (fed government or academic) in order to boost your credentials.

Overall I think that outside the very top candidates, more and more clerks have taken at least a few years off doing other (usually cool & prestigious) things.

Edit: For the second option, I've heard about certain COA judges -- some on senior status, some just doing most work on their own -- that are known to be pre-academia type experiences in terms of giving you an opportunity to publish. I can't remember any of them off the top of my head unfortunately

A few major 2d and 9th cir judges have interviewed and started making offers for 2018-19 (and some even moved earlier this past summer). The judge I'll be clerking for recently took an 18-19 clerk. It's tough to know when the "right time" to apply is anymore, but I'd say now is as good a time as any.

There is a certain advantage to getting your clerkship while you're a 2L or right after. If you're like me and most people I know and you mailed in 3L, your grades take a big hit. So it's nice to not have to show your transcript to anyone. No way I could get my COA judge if chambers saw my full transcript after this. Of course if you're seriously considering SCOTUS I guess you have to keep trying.

Thanks to both to you! I think I'll try to make done moved over break then.

[Anonymous User]

0/5 for COA interview success rate. This process is soooo fun

I went 0/5 then got 9/DC/2. Interview process is miserable and your success rate has little to do with your quality as a candidate. Good luck!

Different anon, but it's getting hard to stay positive. In all the apps I've sent over the past 7 months, I have heard zero peep from any human about anything. Gonna send a ton more after fall grades come out, but I want anything, even a rejection, at this point. Not a hundred people saying nothing ever.

Same anon (went 0/5) as above. It is rough, to be sure though just to clarify I was speaking about interviews as in, having an interview with a Judge/clerks and not getting an offer. I think if you are not getting interviews it might be worth taking a second look at your application package and seeing if there is anyway to mix it up. I am also only familiar with the COA application process, I know d. ct. might be slightly different. Regardless, keep on keepin' on!

If you've gotten several COA interviews it also means your qualifications and recommendations are superb. Like near top of the class at a T14 with faculty going to bat. The difference between hearing nothing (which is very common) and getting six interviews (extremely rare) is two fundamentally different candidates.

Fwiw (not much I know), I do think I'm a fairly good candidate, and not shooting above my range (COA non-2/9/DC). Maybe I am though, I might be mistaken, but I have tippy top grades at a T14, strong recs (including phone calls), and a lot of nothing in response. Perhaps there is something fundamentally wrong with a piece of my application. I will reassess after finals. ETA: 7 months, dead silence anon here.

(1) There's probably something wrong with your resume, cover letter, and/or writing sample. You should have your clerkship counselor and a friend you trust look over your application materials with a fine comb.

(2) If you've applied to less than 100 judges, this is not completely abnormal.

(3) Don't solely rely on OSCAR.

I need an objective third party I think, because the clerkship counselor has worked with me for months fine tuning everything, and I've had my writing sample looked at by everyone who will take a glance haha. Could also be resume or cover letter. In terms of the number of judges, yeah, it's a little less than 100 (though not by that much of a margin). I don't rely on OSCAR at all, I only rely on explicit knowledge.

[pertristis]

I need an objective third party I think, because the clerkship counselor has worked with me for months fine tuning everything, and I've had my writing sample looked at by everyone who will take a glance haha. Could also be resume or cover letter. In terms of the number of judges, yeah, it's a little less than 100 (though not by that much of a margin). I don't rely on OSCAR at all, I only rely on explicit knowledge.

If you need an objective third party to review, PM me.

Edit: Future clerk for a non-feeder. Received interviews for DC/2/9 clerkships that were probably way above my law school grades, assumedly based on my application.

[emkay625]

I need an objective third party I think, because the clerkship counselor has worked with me for months fine tuning everything, and I've had my writing sample looked at by everyone who will take a glance haha. Could also be resume or cover letter. In terms of the number of judges, yeah, it's a little less than 100 (though not by that much of a margin). I don't rely on OSCAR at all, I only rely on explicit knowledge.

Clerk at a non-feeder here, but we just went through the application review process so it's fresh in my mind what we look at when we review stuff. I'd be happy to look at your stuff if you like. PM me if interested.

Edited to add: I'd be happy to do this for anybody, not just the anon who posted above.

[Br3v]

I need an objective third party I think, because the clerkship counselor has worked with me for months fine tuning everything, and I've had my writing sample looked at by everyone who will take a glance haha. Could also be resume or cover letter. In terms of the number of judges, yeah, it's a little less than 100 (though not by that much of a margin). I don't rely on OSCAR at all, I only rely on explicit knowledge.

Clerk at a non-feeder here, but we just went through the application review process so it's fresh in my mind what we look at when we review stuff. I'd be happy to look at your stuff if you like. PM me if interested.

Edited to add: I'd be happy to do this for anybody, not just the anon who posted above.

Not the anon you're talking to but:

It would actually be really helpful for us all I would think if you gave like 3 or 5 key points you tend to look for at apps!