Clerks Taking Questions Forum

[Anonymous User]

I have a question re OSCAR for any of the clerks who have used it and sort through applications. Still missing one letter of recommendation but have everything else. If my Professor still does not get his letter in by Monday when the plan begins what will it look like on your end? Will my application not go through? Will my application go through but it will say one LOR is pending? Will it go through with just two letters instead of three.

Hope is he gets it in by Monday but it is already Thursday and I have heard nothing despite following up. Want to know how screwed I may end up being by this.

Apps are visible on OSCAR even if not all of the recommendations are in, but it will show that there is a pending letter of recommendation. How clerks and judges treat that situation likely varies judge-by-judge.

Anecdotally, when I applied only 1 of my 4 recommenders had their letters uploaded to OSCAR as of 11:59 p.m. the night before the plan. This, despite weeks of lead time. All of the letters were up by noon the next day, but I'll be damned if it wasn't stressful. I think a lot of professors just have turned procrastination into an art form.

Man kinda wild. Your anecdote does somewhat my chill my nerves I guess. This is definiitely screwing me for papers app though... at least only like a max of 10 judges take paper only.

[Anonymous User]

I have a question re OSCAR for any of the clerks who have used it and sort through applications. Still missing one letter of recommendation but have everything else. If my Professor still does not get his letter in by Monday when the plan begins what will it look like on your end? Will my application not go through? Will my application go through but it will say one LOR is pending? Will it go through with just two letters instead of three.

Hope is he gets it in by Monday but it is already Thursday and I have heard nothing despite following up. Want to know how screwed I may end up being by this.

Apps are visible on OSCAR even if not all of the recommendations are in, but it will show that there is a pending letter of recommendation. How clerks and judges treat that situation likely varies judge-by-judge.

Anecdotally, when I applied only 1 of my 4 recommenders had their letters uploaded to OSCAR as of 11:59 p.m. the night before the plan. This, despite weeks of lead time. All of the letters were up by noon the next day, but I'll be damned if it wasn't stressful. I think a lot of professors just have turned procrastination into an art form.

Man kinda wild. Your anecdote does somewhat my chill my nerves I guess. This is definiitely screwing me for papers app though... at least only like a max of 10 judges take paper only.

Clerk to paper-only judge here. Apply anyway! If we like you, we'll move on you even if the letter hasn't come yet.

[Anonymous User]

I have a question re OSCAR for any of the clerks who have used it and sort through applications. Still missing one letter of recommendation but have everything else. If my Professor still does not get his letter in by Monday when the plan begins what will it look like on your end? Will my application not go through? Will my application go through but it will say one LOR is pending? Will it go through with just two letters instead of three.

Hope is he gets it in by Monday but it is already Thursday and I have heard nothing despite following up. Want to know how screwed I may end up being by this.

Apps are visible on OSCAR even if not all of the recommendations are in, but it will show that there is a pending letter of recommendation. How clerks and judges treat that situation likely varies judge-by-judge.

Anecdotally, when I applied only 1 of my 4 recommenders had their letters uploaded to OSCAR as of 11:59 p.m. the night before the plan. This, despite weeks of lead time. All of the letters were up by noon the next day, but I'll be damned if it wasn't stressful. I think a lot of professors just have turned procrastination into an art form.

Man kinda wild. Your anecdote does somewhat my chill my nerves I guess. This is definiitely screwing me for papers app though... at least only like a max of 10 judges take paper only.

Clerk to paper-only judge here. Apply anyway! If we like you, we'll move on you even if the letter hasn't come yet.

Alright, I'll send them out! Nothing to lose except the shipping cost I guess haha

[Anonymous User]

Maybe a dumb question, but after graduating how long should a resume be? Is over 1 page acceptable with both pre and post law school experience?

[Anonymous User]

Maybe a dumb question, but after graduating how long should a resume be? Is over 1 page acceptable with both pre and post law school experience?

No. Cut pre-law school unless exceedingly relevant.

[Anonymous User]

Maybe a dumb question, but after graduating how long should a resume be? Is over 1 page acceptable with both pre and post law school experience?

Never ever more than a page.

[Pneumonia]

Never ever more than a page.

Accidental anon, sorry. This is Pneumonia.

[Anonymous User]

Maybe a dumb question, but after graduating how long should a resume be? Is over 1 page acceptable with both pre and post law school experience?

I actually used a longer resume as a student than after graduation, because I had a 10+ year career in another field, and before I graduated and got an actual legal job I did keep in a fair amount of detail about it since that was what distinguished me from other law students and was arguably relevant for evaluating me as an applicant for stuff in the absence of actual practice experience. I also did a ton of internships etc during law school and before I had real legal experience I wanted to highlight that.

That kind of stuff just becomes much less relevant once you have actual post-grad legal experience, and now I use a 1 page resume and include very little of what I used to.

It (apparently) didn’t hurt me to apply to clerkships with a 2 pp resume, but I was also very much not K-JD. If you used a 1 pp resume during law school I don’t think graduating means you should feel able to move on to a 2-pager.

Also, I personally am fine with a longer resume with more white space over everything jammed into one page with a tiny font. But the fact that other clerks are all saying “one page” means I’m probably an outlier and you should listen to them.

It’s true that reviewing apps in a non-clerkship context, I don’t generally care if people use 2 pp, but I do think that when you’re reviewing apps and come across a 2 pager, some come across fine, and some you think “this definitely could have been 1 page.” It’s not really anything you can define, you just know it when you see it.

[Anonymous User]

I have a genuine/possibly naive question, and my clerkship office isn't terribly helpful. At this point, where does the process stand for on-plan COA judges, nationally speaking? I realize this is a difficult question because folks only know about their own chambers. But, I figure there has to be some savvy person on this forum that has a slightly better sense of this than I do.

To be more specific, let's assume . . .

Day One: 100% of on-plan judges are looking at apps and begin to make calls to candidates they are interested in. Some judges look at applications themselves, most have clerks make suggestions and filter from there.

I am wondering (in very rough terms, of course) what the next week might look like. For example:

End of Week One: X percentage of judges have scheduled interviews, X percentage have extended offers, and X percentage have filled their spots.

Week Two: Some judges are scheduling interviews, some make another round of calls because one of their top candidates declines, and some fill spots based on the folks they interviewed last week.

Week Three: Presumably some smaller percentage is doing the same thing.

In essence, I am wondering whether most judges extend all interview offers the first week and have good enough yield from their initial efforts to be finished. Or, alternatively, whether ~80% extend interviews but it's to the same 5% of applicants such that a good portion of the ~80% is still extending interview invites into the second week, i.e., non-feeders, not 2/9/DC, etc.

Apologies for this convoluted (and probably unanswerable) question, but I am just trying to gauge where the process is at a macro-level going into this week. I have two interviews so far, but still wondering if I have any real hope of hearing from other folks this week. I would appreciate any help folks might offer, even if it is anecdotal or not completely responsive!

[Prosecutor]

Is BARBRI or Themis better for people who will be clerking right after graduation? Does one cover more relevant material that you'll encounter in a clerkship?

[Asdfgqwerty]

Maybe a dumb question, but after graduating how long should a resume be? Is over 1 page acceptable with both pre and post law school experience?

Never ever more than a page.

Agree. Always a page.

I had another post-grad degree and a career before law school. I had colleagues/friends with PhDs. We all managed to cut it down to a page, with just the most impressive pre-law school stuff included. You should always be able to cut down to a page.

[Asdfgqwerty]

Is BARBRI or Themis better for people who will be clerking right after graduation? Does one cover more relevant material that you'll encounter in a clerkship?

No. Pick whatever study method works best for you. I preferred Themis but others did Barbri. It doesn’t matter.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone else accept a clerkship only to get offered interviews for more prestigious clerkships later on? I accepted one on E.D. Pa. and not a week later got a D.D.C. interview offer. And just now I got an E.D.N.Y. interview offer. Like what the heck?! Did I settle too quickly? Both were also for judges who I think would have been better fits. I know I'm sounding ungrateful, but it's hard to not feel a little bleh about this.

[Anonymous User]

Is it common for judges just to ghost after interviews? I had an interview on Friday of plan opening week and have hearing nothing either way since Monday when I talked to judge's clerk at his invitation. I assume I'm probably out of running given it's been over a week but still odd not to just send a rejection

[Anonymous User]

Anyone else accept a clerkship only to get offered interviews for more prestigious clerkships later on? I accepted one on E.D. Pa. and not a week later got a D.D.C. interview offer. And just now I got an E.D.N.Y. interview offer. Like what the heck?! Did I settle too quickly? Both were also for judges who I think would have been better fits. I know I'm sounding ungrateful, but it's hard to not feel a little bleh about this.

On the one hand, I feel you, especially with regard to fit. If I could do it again I would have staggered applications more (I applied during the time the Plan was dead),

On the other hand...jeez, please don't be regretting an E.D.Pa. clerkship over D.D.C. or E.D.N.Y., even if you do plan on working in DC or NYC, that's a great district in a major city where you're going to see a broad variety of litigation and likely some very good attorneys. Sure, D.D.C. is probably the second-most competitive district in the country, but your career is not going to be altered because clerking in Philly is a tad less "prestigious." I work in a big market not particularly close to Philly and know several great attorneys who clerked on E.D.Pa.

[Asdfgqwerty]

Is it common for judges just to ghost after interviews? I had an interview on Friday of plan opening week and have hearing nothing either way since Monday when I talked to judge's clerk at his invitation. I assume I'm probably out of running given it's been over a week but still odd not to just send a rejection

It’s common and could frankly mean anything. That being said, many judges on the plan tend to move very quickly, so silence after ~1-2 weeks is generally not a great sign. But it’s not unheard of to get an offer several weeks later. Some judges do like to talk to recommenders, do a lot of other due diligence, etc.

[Anonymous User]

Is it common for judges just to ghost after interviews? I had an interview on Friday of plan opening week and have hearing nothing either way since Monday when I talked to judge's clerk at his invitation. I assume I'm probably out of running given it's been over a week but still odd not to just send a rejection

It’s common and could frankly mean anything. That being said, many judges on the plan tend to move very quickly, so silence after ~1-2 weeks is generally not a great sign. But it’s not unheard of to get an offer several weeks later. Some judges do like to talk to recommenders, do a lot of other due diligence, etc.

It's common to be entirely ghosted for months and then receive a mass rejection letter.

[Anonymous User]

Niche Q but how does it work when ur interviewing with district judge who’s nominated to court of appeals but not confirmed? Do I assume I’m interviewing for circuit or what?

[Anonymous User]

Niche Q but how does it work when ur interviewing with district judge who’s nominated to court of appeals but not confirmed? Do I assume I’m interviewing for circuit or what?

I don’t think it makes that much of a difference but yeah you’re de facto interviewing for a circuit.

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know if clerking for a Trump appointed judge (an uncontroversial one that got confirmed by 60+ votes), would be "bad" if you wanted to work in more left-leaning government positions (i.e. like legislative counsel, etc...). I would, of course, have other credentials hopefully to signal my loyalty/political positions but wondering if I should only be targeting dem-appointed judges.

[Skool]

Does anyone know if clerking for a Trump appointed judge (an uncontroversial one that got confirmed by 60+ votes), would be "bad" if you wanted to work in more left-leaning government positions (i.e. like legislative counsel, etc...). I would, of course, have other credentials hopefully to signal my loyalty/political positions but wondering if I should only be targeting dem-appointed judges.

No, you'll generally be fine with PI jobs.

PI lawyers had been clerking for right-leaning judges long before Trump. All lawyers generally understand the clerkship hustle and that you generally take the clerkship you can get. If your specific judge is particularly infamous either regionally or nationally, you might get asked how you could tolerate clerking for so an so during and interview. But your answer, let alone the fact of who you clerked for, is not going to be dispositive. Also, keep in mind, blue state district court trump appointees had sign off/recommendation from democratic senators, so people understand that just because trump appointed someone doesn't necessarily tell you what you should expect from them as a judge.

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know if clerking for a Trump appointed judge (an uncontroversial one that got confirmed by 60+ votes), would be "bad" if you wanted to work in more left-leaning government positions (i.e. like legislative counsel, etc...). I would, of course, have other credentials hopefully to signal my loyalty/political positions but wondering if I should only be targeting dem-appointed judges.

Conservative clerking for a Biden appointee here. I asked the same question, in reverse, before I took this job, and the answer I generally got was that I'd be fine because I have enough right-signals elsewhere on my resume, including another clerkship with a more prominent Republican judge.

[Anonymous User]

Is there any benefit to taking the bar exam before clerking? I’ll be clerking for NDCal/SDNY/DDC the August after graduation, and then 2/9/DC, and was wondering if I should take the bar in between graduating and starting the district court clerkship.

I understand that I’ll be paid less for my second clerkship if I don’t take the bar, but are there any other downsides? Would it affect applying to the Bristow or getting a post-clerkship firm offer? My reasons for not taking it is because I got a pretty unique opportunity for that summer, but I don’t think I can take it and study for the bar.

Thanks!

[Anonymous User]

Is there any benefit to taking the bar exam before clerking? I’ll be clerking for NDCal/SDNY/DDC the August after graduation, and then 2/9/DC, and was wondering if I should take the bar in between graduating and starting the district court clerkship.

I understand that I’ll be paid less for my second clerkship if I don’t take the bar, but are there any other downsides? Would it affect applying to the Bristow or getting a post-clerkship firm offer? My reasons for not taking it is because I got a pretty unique opportunity for that summer, but I don’t think I can take it and study for the bar.

Thanks!

It's a pain in the ass to study for the bar while clerking. If the opportunity you have is better, you definitely should not let the bar exam stop you. The bar is not nearly as hard as people make it out to be, and given your clerkships, I strongly suspect you could do both in one summer.

[lavarman84]

Is there any benefit to taking the bar exam before clerking? I’ll be clerking for NDCal/SDNY/DDC the August after graduation, and then 2/9/DC, and was wondering if I should take the bar in between graduating and starting the district court clerkship.

I understand that I’ll be paid less for my second clerkship if I don’t take the bar, but are there any other downsides? Would it affect applying to the Bristow or getting a post-clerkship firm offer? My reasons for not taking it is because I got a pretty unique opportunity for that summer, but I don’t think I can take it and study for the bar.

Thanks!

I'd say there are two big downsides:
1. Being paid around $15k less than you'd make otherwise, assuming your COA clerkship is in a high COL area.
2. Having to study for the bar during your COA clerkship, assuming you aren't going to do so during your D. Ct. clerkship.

I studied for the bar during my COA clerkship. It was tiring, but it was very doable. Of course, I had a judge who only made us work 9-5, and this was during COVID, so we were working remotely.

Unless your opportunity that summer will have crazy hours, I'd probably just take your shot at studying for the bar while you take advantage of that opportunity. You're likely going to be studying for the bar while working a full-time job even if you delay it.