Clerks Taking Questions Forum

[Anonymous User]

I'm sure there are some judges who care and some who don't. I think if you have a reasonable amount of pre-law school work experience, 2 pages is fine, but if you're K-JD you probably only need one.

[LBJ's Hair]

I'm sure there are some judges who care and some who don't. I think if you have a reasonable amount of pre-law school work experience, 2 pages is fine, but if you're K-JD you probably only need one.

I would have throw any application w/a two-page resume into the trash w/o reading it, unless the second page was a list of legal publications and the applicant was a law prof/in a fellowship.

like...we're not The New Yorker, you're not writing a memoir, you don't need two pages to communicate all your personal/professional accomplishments that might be relevant for a 1-year job with a federal judge

no one cares if you had five accounting jobs b/w 2000 and 2008. just start your resume at 2006 and if I'm curious I'll ask what you did before 2006 given you graduated in 2000 (I'm not and I won't)

[stoopkid13]

Do judges care if a resume goes over one page? I'm at a point where I'm leaving out a lot of my work history just to squeeze everything onto one page, and there's basically no white space left on it.

Is all of your work history relevant to clerking? I'm skeptical you need 2 pages even if you have significant pre-law school WE.

[Anonymous User]

I'm sure there are some judges who care and some who don't. I think if you have a reasonable amount of pre-law school work experience, 2 pages is fine, but if you're K-JD you probably only need one.

I would have throw any application w/a two-page resume into the trash w/o reading it, unless the second page was a list of legal publications and the applicant was a law prof/in a fellowship.

like...we're not The New Yorker, you're not writing a memoir, you don't need two pages to communicate all your personal/professional accomplishments that might be relevant for a 1-year job with a federal judge

no one cares if you had five accounting jobs b/w 2000 and 2008. just start your resume at 2006 and if I'm curious I'll ask what you did before 2006 given you graduated in 2000 (I'm not and I won't)

Above anon. I had a bunch of pre-law school experience, I used a 2 pp resume, I got clerkships and jobs, so thanks for supporting the "some judges care and some don't" answer.

(Ironically now that I've been a lawyer for ~10 years I've moved to 1 page, but my school/grades were both good but not spectacular, so when I was applying to clerkships my strategy was to use my past work experience and my varied law school internships etc. to distinguish me from other applicants. Now that I have actual real legal experience, I can use that to distinguish myself and the other stuff doesn't matter. But it wasn't like I could ride "top 3% of the class at Chicago" to success so I needed to try something else. I probably never had a chance with your judge regardless of the length of my resume, and yeah, if you're someone with absolute top of the line grades/school pedigree, you probably don't need to tell a judge much else.)

[LBJ's Hair]

I would have throw any application w/a two-page resume into the trash w/o reading it, unless the second page was a list of legal publications and the applicant was a law prof/in a fellowship.

like...we're not The New Yorker, you're not writing a memoir, you don't need two pages to communicate all your personal/professional accomplishments that might be relevant for a 1-year job with a federal judge

no one cares if you had five accounting jobs b/w 2000 and 2008. just start your resume at 2006 and if I'm curious I'll ask what you did before 2006 given you graduated in 2000 (I'm not and I won't)

Above anon. I had a bunch of pre-law school experience, I used a 2 pp resume, I got clerkships and jobs, so thanks for supporting the "some judges care and some don't" answer.

(Ironically now that I've been a lawyer for ~10 years I've moved to 1 page, but my school/grades were both good but not spectacular, so when I was applying to clerkships my strategy was to use my past work experience and my varied law school internships etc. to distinguish me from other applicants. Now that I have actual real legal experience, I can use that to distinguish myself and the other stuff doesn't matter. But it wasn't like I could ride "top 3% of the class at Chicago" to success so I needed to try something else. I probably never had a chance with your judge regardless of the length of my resume, and yeah, if you're someone with absolute top of the line grades/school pedigree, you probably don't need to tell a judge much else.)

my point wasn't we're too good for you, it's more that I can't imagine you (or really any applicant) has numerous professional/personal accomplishments so essential that they can't fit onto a single page of a Word document

[Anonymous User]

Two page resume is like wearing a red shirt to an interview. Sure, every cycle there will be people who get jobs despite not following the norms. But it’s still not the norm and will hurt you more than it will help.

[Saami]

Thanks for the responses, everyone. I'll just stick to one page, though I think it's a stupid practice. The only reason I'd asked is because my workplace just hired a couple new interns, and both their resumes were two pages long (they were chosen out of hundreds of applicants). So, I was wondering if people were starting to move past the obsession over one-page resumes. Better to be safe than sorry, I suppose.

I also have a few publications, so that section is starting to eat up a lot of my space.

[Anonymous User]

my point wasn't we're too good for you, it's more that I can't imagine you (or really any applicant) has numerous professional/personal accomplishments so essential that they can't fit onto a single page of a Word document

I had multiple degrees and worked for 15 years before going to law school, and I did different internships 5 out of 6 semesters in law school (on top of other activities). It takes up space.

In any case, outside of law, everything I’ve seen says that 2 pp is actually fine for most people. So I think some of that is going to seep into law eventually.

[Anonymous User]

I don't think my judge would care, and I wouldn't personally, but to be safe, it's probably best to stick with one.

[Anonymous User]

Is it worth having a COA clerkship if the judge doesn’t participate in sittings?

[Anonymous User]

Is it worth having a COA clerkship if the judge doesn’t participate in sittings?

It would be significantly less interesting and much less helpful for your professional development. That said, sometimes clerks for judges who aren't sitting get farmed out to active judges to do bench memos so you'd get to participate in that process a little bit. And you are still getting the resume credential, which is probably the most valuable thing you get out of a clerkship.

[Anonymous User]

Is it worth having a COA clerkship if the judge doesn’t participate in sittings?

It would be significantly less interesting and much less helpful for your professional development. That said, sometimes clerks for judges who aren't sitting get farmed out to active judges to do bench memos so you'd get to participate in that process a little bit. And you are still getting the resume credential, which is probably the most valuable thing you get out of a clerkship.

Good to know. It would be in a good location and could be a pretty chill (but boring) way to spend a few years.

[Saami]

If I apply to a clerkship and don't hear back within a few days, I'm basically not in the running, right?

[Anonymous User]

If I apply to a clerkship and don't hear back within a few days, I'm basically not in the running, right?

No. Some judges hold applications for a period of time and look at them once they are ready to hire. Some judges do rigoruous background research that may take a bit before hiring. Some judges may think of you as a second-tiers cantidate (not in a derricive way) and call you if the #1 person doesn't work out. All things equal, you'd rather have a call in the first few days, but it is not certain the judge has dinged you.

[Anonymous User]

If I apply to a clerkship and don't hear back within a few days, I'm basically not in the running, right?

Not at all with the judges I clerked for -- we held apps until we had a good amount, then reviewed in batches. It takes time for clerks to winnow them down, agree internally, and send to the judge, and even those who were pulled out for special consideration (usually because a prof close to the judge called on their behalf) had to wait for us to get through the rest of the apps to get an email. So at least for my two judges there was zero correlation between how excited we were about you and how quickly you heard from us.

[Anonymous User]

Agreed with the two posts above, especially when you're applying outside the standard hiring timeline (I think historically, applying right now would likely have been either be really late or really early for your average fall-starting clerkship, and a lot of judges may follow their own preferred schedule. Obviously if the starting date is unconventional that doesn't apply, but even so, I'd still agree with the posts above).

[Anonymous User]

Another former clerk agreeing with the above replies.

Even if you were applying on the plan timeline and were asking about not hearing back right after 2Ls were allowed to start applying, not hearing back within a few days isn't an automatic ding. I know some judges have just said fuck it to the feeding frenzy hat happens when apps open, and just wait a week or two to even start reviewing/reaching out, under the assumption that plenty of great candidates won't get snatched up right away and it's simpler not to be fighting with other judges over the same people during the same week. Plus, of course, plenty of judges lose out on their #1 and then go back to the pile.

And as for applying any other time of year (such as right now), my judge also did the "review in batches" method described above. So it might be a month or even two after receiving it before we even looked at the application, let alone started winnowing down and making choices about who to interview.

[Anonymous User]

If I apply to a clerkship and don't hear back within a few days, I'm basically not in the running, right?

No. Some judges hold applications for a period of time and look at them once they are ready to hire. Some judges do rigoruous background research that may take a bit before hiring. Some judges may think of you as a second-tiers cantidate (not in a derricive way) and call you if the #1 person doesn't work out. All things equal, you'd rather have a call in the first few days, but it is not certain the judge has dinged you.

Both chambers I worked in will hold them for months depending on how early you apply.

[Anonymous User]

Why do chambers ghost candidates after interviews and not just tell them they've been dinged?

[Anonymous User]

Same reason any employer does - they're busy, they've got other things to do, and don't care about looking rude because they hold all the cards in this situation.

How long has it been since you interviewed?

[Anonymous User]

Same reason any employer does - they're busy, they've got other things to do, and don't care about looking rude because they hold all the cards in this situation.

How long has it been since you interviewed?

Different anon, but I was told I’d hear something this month. Interview was 6 weeks ago. How long do you usually wait before reaching out? I was thinking of asking early next month. I don’t want to be annoying, but I’d rather start renewing my search if it’s not going to happen.

[Anonymous User]

Same reason any employer does - they're busy, they've got other things to do, and don't care about looking rude because they hold all the cards in this situation.

How long has it been since you interviewed?

Different anon, but I was told I’d hear something this month. Interview was 6 weeks ago. How long do you usually wait before reaching out? I was thinking of asking early next month. I don’t want to be annoying, but I’d rather start renewing my search if it’s not going to happen.

If I were in this situation I would find a way to reach out without it being obvious that you are irritated about their timing. The best way would be to find some sort of reason to "update" your application. New grades, new job, moot court results, etc.

[Anonymous User]

Yeah, best way is if you have an update - more info or another job offer.

It’s January 18, there’s still a fair amount of time left in the month. But in the meantime, assume you don’t have it and renew your job search.

[Anonymous User]

There's one district court judge whose chambers is in my hometown, and I think I have a pretty good chance given my local connections and other factors. I reached out by email to his chambers in December asking when the judge would be accepting applications for the next available term, and his career clerk told me applications would open on OSCAR in early January. Now we're in late January and still nothing. He also told me they do accept email and paper applications, but wouldn't review them before OSCAR applications. I'm getting so anxious and just want to submit. Would I look like a weirdo if I emailed my application to them? Or should I just suck it up and wait for the OSCAR posting?

[GavinMcG]

they do accept email and paper applications . . . Would I look like a weirdo if I emailed my application to them? Or should I just suck it up and wait for the OSCAR posting?

Just submit now. If they don't review it before OSCAR, no loss. But you're giving them a chance to do so, and you're more in control of the presentation when you mail an envelope than when you hope they'll find you within the OSCAR responses.