Clerks Taking Questions Forum

[nixy]

Ditto to the above.

[Anonymous User]

Ditto to the above.

Yeah, all my COA chambers looked for were admin and fed courts/jur. And my district chambers looked just for the latter. Everything else didn't matter, as long as the transcript doesn't scream fluff. (And, frankly, we were pretty forgiving on what qualifies as fluffy. YLS transcripts, for instance, tend to have a bunch of "Law and Feelings" seminars or clinics.)

[Anonymous User]

Ditto to the above.

Yeah, all my COA chambers looked for were admin and fed courts/jur. And my district chambers looked just for the latter. Everything else didn't matter, as long as the transcript doesn't scream fluff. (And, frankly, we were pretty forgiving on what qualifies as fluffy. YLS transcripts, for instance, tend to have a bunch of "Law and Feelings" seminars or clinics.)

So you recommend taking Fed Courts and Admin 2L year? With 2L grades mattering this year it might be a tough pill to swallow.

[Anonymous User]

One of my recommenders is a judge in one of my target districts. She generally doesn't write recommendations because she finds it awkward to recommend a clerk to her colleagues. It seemed improper to ask her to make calls for me, but after a week of silence, I'm wondering if that was the right call. Would it be improper to reach out to her to ask if she'd be willing to do some outreach?

[Anonymous User]

One of my recommenders is a judge in one of my target districts. She generally doesn't write recommendations because she finds it awkward to recommend a clerk to her colleagues. It seemed improper to ask her to make calls for me, but after a week of silence, I'm wondering if that was the right call. Would it be improper to reach out to her to ask if she'd be willing to do some outreach?

If she has a career clerk or judicial assistant, I would ask that person first.

[Anonymous User]

One of my recommenders is a judge in one of my target districts. She generally doesn't write recommendations because she finds it awkward to recommend a clerk to her colleagues. It seemed improper to ask her to make calls for me, but after a week of silence, I'm wondering if that was the right call. Would it be improper to reach out to her to ask if she'd be willing to do some outreach?

I think it would be totally okay to reach out and let her know you haven’t heard anything, could you two talk about how you should proceed? And then she may offer to call or you can gauge her feelings and decide if it would be okay to ask.

[Anonymous User]

Ditto to the above.

Yeah, all my COA chambers looked for were admin and fed courts/jur. And my district chambers looked just for the latter. Everything else didn't matter, as long as the transcript doesn't scream fluff. (And, frankly, we were pretty forgiving on what qualifies as fluffy. YLS transcripts, for instance, tend to have a bunch of "Law and Feelings" seminars or clinics.)

So you recommend taking Fed Courts and Admin 2L year? With 2L grades mattering this year it might be a tough pill to swallow.

This strikes me as strange advice, I know the norm at Chicago and Harvard (and maybe other schools as well) is that students sandbag Fed Courts for 3L. And I have the list of classes and clerkships from one of those schools' law review boards last year so I know that the vast majority of them got COAs and that the vast majority of them did not take Fed Courts in 2L.

[beepboopbeep]

That was not really the norm when I was at Chicago; it was a pretty even split between 2Ls and 3Ls in fed courts when I took it. And having been on the hiring side, I'd echo the above anon's emphasis on fed courts + admin as really the two big ones we looked for on a resume, along with con law for schools that don't have it as a required 1L class. The fact that they're hard classes that draw top students is part of the point, along with them just being useful for the actual work of being a COA clerk. I don't think we ever looked to whether biz orgs was on a transcript, and I don't know why it would have any particular use for a clerk outside of, like, delaware chancery.

[Anonymous User]

That was not really the norm when I was at Chicago; it was a pretty even split between 2Ls and 3Ls in fed courts when I took it. And having been on the hiring side, I'd echo the above anon's emphasis on fed courts + admin as really the two big ones we looked for on a resume, along with con law for schools that don't have it as a required 1L class. The fact that they're hard classes that draw top students is part of the point, along with them just being useful for the actual work of being a COA clerk. I don't think we ever looked to whether biz orgs was on a transcript, and I don't know why it would have any particular use for a clerk outside of, like, delaware chancery.

I heard that Fed Courts and Admin are important to have on a transcript, but it is perfectly acceptable for them to be taken in the 3L fall rather than in the 2L year.

[Anonymous User]

That was not really the norm when I was at Chicago; it was a pretty even split between 2Ls and 3Ls in fed courts when I took it. And having been on the hiring side, I'd echo the above anon's emphasis on fed courts + admin as really the two big ones we looked for on a resume, along with con law for schools that don't have it as a required 1L class. The fact that they're hard classes that draw top students is part of the point, along with them just being useful for the actual work of being a COA clerk. I don't think we ever looked to whether biz orgs was on a transcript, and I don't know why it would have any particular use for a clerk outside of, like, delaware chancery.

I heard that Fed Courts and Admin are important to have on a transcript, but it is perfectly acceptable for them to be taken in the 3L fall rather than in the 2L year.

In my experience at Chicago, it seems most people have already taken them, but if not, they will promise their judges that they will take them in the future.

But this is only really true for people on the plan given how classes are offered. Lots of people get clerkships before the end of 2L.

[Anonymous User]

I'm about to start a COA clerkship, and I feel woefully unprepared compared to my co-clerks, some of whom are coming off of other COA clerkships.

Any tips for how I can do the best job possible in the first few months?

[Anonymous User]

I'm about to start a COA clerkship, and I feel woefully unprepared compared to my co-clerks, some of whom are coming off of other COA clerkships.

Any tips for how I can do the best job possible in the first few months?

As a former clerk, my advice is to be extremely thorough. More than you think you need to be. Know everything about the case and the law. Read every relevant case multiple times--the whole case, not just bits and pieces--and be positive you've read all the case law you need to. (There will be times when there is a controlling case, so this is not necessary.) Revise, edit, and then revise your drafts more. Then do it again. Make sure you've addressed all of the parties' arguments that need to be addressed. Do not let anyone see work product that you're not 100% positive is the best you can do.

[Anonymous User]

This question was asked on the 2021-2022 clerkship thread but I thought I would ask it here to see what former/current clerks thought. What do you all think about potentially doing two district court clerkships (2021-2022 and 2022-2023) followed by a Court of Appeal clerkship (hopefully 2023-2024)? Will CoA judges give weight to an applicant with two prior district court clerkships or look at this favorably? I want to be a litigator, but my eventual goal is to do appellate work which is why I do really want the CoA experience, but, I also think the district court experience will be valuable. Thoughts?

[Anonymous User]

This question was asked on the 2021-2022 clerkship thread but I thought I would ask it here to see what former/current clerks thought. What do you all think about potentially doing two district court clerkships (2021-2022 and 2022-2023) followed by a Court of Appeal clerkship (hopefully 2023-2024)? Will CoA judges give weight to an applicant with two prior district court clerkships or look at this favorably? I want to be a litigator, but my eventual goal is to do appellate work which is why I do really want the CoA experience, but, I also think the district court experience will be valuable. Thoughts?

2 district courts seems like a waste unless (1) the second clerkship is in a sexy district and a clerkship with that judge would help you get a job you otherwise wouldn’t (eg SDNY AUSA) or (2) the second clerkship is a feeder or at least incredibly respected/prestigious judge (oetken, feinerman, boasberg, rakoff, furman, chhabria, etc.).

[nixy]

Yeah, I agree that two DCt clerkships is a little much. I think having a DCt clerkship helps a lot for COA, but I don’t think two adds anything at all for that purpose. It’s a little arbitrary bc I think if you did one DCt clerkship but it was for 2 years, people wouldn’t have the same reaction, but seeking out two DCt clerkships doesn’t make a lot of sense, except, as the comment above suggests, if there’s something particularly special/unique about the second clerkship (especially that it would feed you to a COA).

The only caveat I have is that I think if you’re trying to change markets, doing a second DCt clerkship in your target market *can* make sense, in that it gives you time to network locally in a way you can’t do so well long distance. But that doesn’t sound like what you’re doing, and even then, it’s not ideal.

[Anonymous User]

If a judge hired me as the "chief law clerk" (a position that would put me in charge of the other clerks), is that something to put on my resume and firm profile? Or is that too pretentious sounding?

Bumping this question

[Anonymous User]

If a judge hired me as the "chief law clerk" (a position that would put me in charge of the other clerks), is that something to put on my resume and firm profile? Or is that too pretentious sounding?

Bumping this question

I don't think anyone has familiarity with this practice, so they don't feel qualified to respond (including me). Is this a state clerkship?

[Anonymous User]

As a former clerk, my advice is to be extremely thorough. Know everything about the case and the law. Read every relevant case multiple times--the whole case, not just bits and pieces--and be positive you've read all the case law you need to. Make sure you've addressed all of the parties' arguments that need to be addressed.

I think this advice is right on. The only thing I would add from my experience is that good research and analysis generally helps the judge more than pretty writing. My school placed a lot of value on the form of good legal writing rather than the substance; at least that's what I internalized as important. I spent the first half of my clerkship doing quick research and analysis and spent most of my time editing my drafts for flow and brevity. Eventually, the Judge kindly corrected me (a sad day) and shifted my focus. Obviously, the hope is to do both. But if you've got limited time, lean in the way that helps the judge more.

[nixy]

If a judge hired me as the "chief law clerk" (a position that would put me in charge of the other clerks), is that something to put on my resume and firm profile? Or is that too pretentious sounding?

Bumping this question

I’d put it on a resume, I wouldn’t bother putting it on a firm profile.

[Anonymous User]

As a former clerk, my advice is to be extremely thorough. Know everything about the case and the law. Read every relevant case multiple times--the whole case, not just bits and pieces--and be positive you've read all the case law you need to. Make sure you've addressed all of the parties' arguments that need to be addressed.

I think this advice is right on. The only thing I would add from my experience is that good research and analysis generally helps the judge more than pretty writing. My school placed a lot of value on the form of good legal writing rather than the substance; at least that's what I internalized as important. I spent the first half of my clerkship doing quick research and analysis and spent most of my time editing my drafts for flow and brevity. Eventually, the Judge kindly corrected me (a sad day) and shifted my focus. Obviously, the hope is to do both. But if you've got limited time, lean in the way that helps the judge more.

Just want to highlight how different this is from practice though. The first week of my SA I told my supervisor I spent two hours reading all the pertinent cases and they barked at me "you read the WHOLE cases?"

[Anonymous User]

If a judge hired me as the "chief law clerk" (a position that would put me in charge of the other clerks), is that something to put on my resume and firm profile? Or is that too pretentious sounding?

Bumping this question

I don't think anyone has familiarity with this practice, so they don't feel qualified to respond (including me). Is this a state clerkship?

Original anon.

AIII clerkship. I've seen it in both state and federal courts but it's rare.

[Anonymous User]

If a judge hired me as the "chief law clerk" (a position that would put me in charge of the other clerks), is that something to put on my resume and firm profile? Or is that too pretentious sounding?

Bumping this question

I don't think anyone has familiarity with this practice, so they don't feel qualified to respond (including me). Is this a state clerkship?

Original anon.

AIII clerkship. I've seen it in both state and federal courts but it's rare.

I honestly wouldn't. In my district chambers, for instance, we regularly highlighted strange resume quirks, and it is highly unlikely that the run-of-the-mill chambers will assume that you know what you are talking about when you say you are "chief" law clerk (as opposed to a permanent law clerk) to an A3 judge. You would sound either pretentious or oblivious in my chambers, neither of which is good.

[Anonymous User]

C/o 2020 graduate here. Do you think a 2023–2024 District court clerkship as my first clerkship would be a little late in my career to have a clerkship? My understanding is that a lot of clerks take on clerkships straight out of law school or one to two years after law school. Ideally, I'd also like to do a CoA Clerkship (likely in 2024–2025, but I'd love to do 2022–2023 if someone would take me) and then transition to some sort of appellate litigation work in a firm, but I'm not sure if three years in a firm doing non-appellate work would negatively affect those chances.

[Anonymous User]

C/o 2020 graduate here. Do you think a 2023–2024 District court clerkship as my first clerkship would be a little late in my career to have a clerkship? My understanding is that a lot of clerks take on clerkships straight out of law school or one to two years after law school. Ideally, I'd also like to do a CoA Clerkship (likely in 2024–2025, but I'd love to do 2022–2023 if someone would take me) and then transition to some sort of appellate litigation work in a firm, but I'm not sure if three years in a firm doing non-appellate work would negatively affect those chances.

It's later than normal, but I've heard of it being done, especially for patent clerkships where judges like to see 3+ years of experience first.

[Anonymous User]

if rejected post-interview (assuming you were "close" but just didn't make the cut), is it fine to reapply for a later term? If so, is there a waiting period after rejection or can you respond right away saying that you would like to be considered for the following term as well?