Clerks Taking Questions Forum

[Anonymous User]

How long does it take non-feeder COA judges typically to give an offer/rejection after an interview? I interviewed the day after the reading period ended (Wednesday the 17th) but haven’t heard anything yet and wondering if I should assume it’s a rejection for me or if I still have a chance at an offer.

You still have a chance at an offer. Many judges take a week. Remember, the judge may be interviewing other people, including yesterday and today. Although not the norm, I received an offer 7 weeks after my interview. If you get past a week or so without an offer, that is about when the odds of getting an offer start going down.

OP here, thank you for the info-it makes me feel a little better that I haven’t heard yet. Crossing my fingers!!

[Anonymous User]

How long does it take non-feeder COA judges typically to give an offer/rejection after an interview? I interviewed the day after the reading period ended (Wednesday the 17th) but haven’t heard anything yet and wondering if I should assume it’s a rejection for me or if I still have a chance at an offer.

Was this for '21 or '22? Fellow applicant, not a clerk, but I thought it might be helpful to throw out that my clerkship office is not yet reporting any 2022 clerkships accepted pursuant to the plan. I go to a school that produces a non-trivial number of federal clerks and whose clerkship office is reporting several 2021 clerkships accepted on-plan this week.

[Anonymous User]

How long does it take non-feeder COA judges typically to give an offer/rejection after an interview? I interviewed the day after the reading period ended (Wednesday the 17th) but haven’t heard anything yet and wondering if I should assume it’s a rejection for me or if I still have a chance at an offer.

Was this for '21 or '22? Fellow applicant, not a clerk, but I thought it might be helpful to throw out that my clerkship office is not yet reporting any 2022 clerkships accepted pursuant to the plan. I go to a school that produces a non-trivial number of federal clerks and whose clerkship office is reporting several 2021 clerkships accepted on-plan this week.

OP here, it was for 2021 but it’s still listed as open on OSCAR! I did see some COA 2022 terms listed as filled on OSCAR today but those were mainly feeders

[Anonymous User]

Rising 3L here who just picked up a d.ct for '21 (feeling VERY grateful to get something from this strange plan thing). Considering applying for COAs for 22 given that I have all my recs in order and the d.ct helps, but my dct judge has really weird start/end dates (Oct-Oct), meaning '22 clerkships pretty much all start at least a month before mine.

So my question is, is there any way I can still apply for COAs with, say, september starts and negotiate? Obviously judges who start in july are out. Where would I start though? with my d.ct judge or the COA judge? Would I (presumably) wait until after I get the offer with the COA? Or is this all anathema and I should just forget about doing back-to-back clerkships at all?

[Anonymous User]

Rising 3L here who just picked up a d.ct for '21 (feeling VERY grateful to get something from this strange plan thing). Considering applying for COAs for 22 given that I have all my recs in order and the d.ct helps, but my dct judge has really weird start/end dates (Oct-Oct), meaning '22 clerkships pretty much all start at least a month before mine.

So my question is, is there any way I can still apply for COAs with, say, september starts and negotiate? Obviously judges who start in july are out. Where would I start though? with my d.ct judge or the COA judge? Would I (presumably) wait until after I get the offer with the COA? Or is this all anathema and I should just forget about doing back-to-back clerkships at all?

Your D.Ct. dates are a little weird, but this isn't an unheard of situation. Talk to your D.Ct. judge first and ask whether they'd be OK with you interviewing for positions that might require you to leave a little early (and how early is OK--September 1? September 15? it helps your D.Ct. judge a little that they haven't had to hire for '22 yet). Once you have clarity there, apply to CoA and indicate in your cover letter what your situation is and when you'll be able to leave your D.Ct. clerkship.

[desiperc]

Rising 3L here who just picked up a d.ct for '21 (feeling VERY grateful to get something from this strange plan thing). Considering applying for COAs for 22 given that I have all my recs in order and the d.ct helps, but my dct judge has really weird start/end dates (Oct-Oct), meaning '22 clerkships pretty much all start at least a month before mine.

So my question is, is there any way I can still apply for COAs with, say, september starts and negotiate? Obviously judges who start in july are out. Where would I start though? with my d.ct judge or the COA judge? Would I (presumably) wait until after I get the offer with the COA? Or is this all anathema and I should just forget about doing back-to-back clerkships at all?

No answers but congratulations!!!

[lavarman84]

Rising 3L here who just picked up a d.ct for '21 (feeling VERY grateful to get something from this strange plan thing). Considering applying for COAs for 22 given that I have all my recs in order and the d.ct helps, but my dct judge has really weird start/end dates (Oct-Oct), meaning '22 clerkships pretty much all start at least a month before mine.

So my question is, is there any way I can still apply for COAs with, say, september starts and negotiate? Obviously judges who start in july are out. Where would I start though? with my d.ct judge or the COA judge? Would I (presumably) wait until after I get the offer with the COA? Or is this all anathema and I should just forget about doing back-to-back clerkships at all?

I'd say apply to judges who have start dates in September, October, etc. September is likely workable. If you get an interview with a September judge, you can discuss it with your D. Ct. judge. I know both my COA and D. Ct. judges would have been flexible in such a scenario, but they were also very chill judges.

[Anonymous User]

Rising 3L here who just picked up a d.ct for '21 (feeling VERY grateful to get something from this strange plan thing). Considering applying for COAs for 22 given that I have all my recs in order and the d.ct helps, but my dct judge has really weird start/end dates (Oct-Oct), meaning '22 clerkships pretty much all start at least a month before mine.

So my question is, is there any way I can still apply for COAs with, say, september starts and negotiate? Obviously judges who start in july are out. Where would I start though? with my d.ct judge or the COA judge? Would I (presumably) wait until after I get the offer with the COA? Or is this all anathema and I should just forget about doing back-to-back clerkships at all?

I'd say apply to judges who have start dates in September, October, etc. September is likely workable. If you get an interview with a September judge, you can discuss it with your D. Ct. judge. I know both my COA and D. Ct. judges would have been flexible in such a scenario, but they were also very chill judges.

Some COA judges are relatively inflexible with start dates, because they want their clerks to come into chambers with ample time before their court's first sitting in the fall. The D. Ct. judge is, on balance, more likely to be accommodating -- though there's probably substantial individual variance, as lavarman84 implied.

[ExperssioUnius]

Rising 3L here who just picked up a d.ct for '21 (feeling VERY grateful to get something from this strange plan thing). Considering applying for COAs for 22 given that I have all my recs in order and the d.ct helps, but my dct judge has really weird start/end dates (Oct-Oct), meaning '22 clerkships pretty much all start at least a month before mine.

So my question is, is there any way I can still apply for COAs with, say, september starts and negotiate? Obviously judges who start in july are out. Where would I start though? with my d.ct judge or the COA judge? Would I (presumably) wait until after I get the offer with the COA? Or is this all anathema and I should just forget about doing back-to-back clerkships at all?

Does the judge you are going to have both of his/her clerks start in October (or have a career clerk) or does one start in August and one start in October. If the former, it is reasonable to think something could be worked out for a mid-September switch (I think a COA with an August start is probably out). If, however, the judge intentionally staggers start dates by a few months, you probably are facing an uphill climb on September COA positions working and I'd look at the handful of January starts at the COA level before seriously considering broaching the topic with the district judge.

[Anonymous User]

Rising 3L here who just picked up a d.ct for '21 (feeling VERY grateful to get something from this strange plan thing). Considering applying for COAs for 22 given that I have all my recs in order and the d.ct helps, but my dct judge has really weird start/end dates (Oct-Oct), meaning '22 clerkships pretty much all start at least a month before mine.

So my question is, is there any way I can still apply for COAs with, say, september starts and negotiate? Obviously judges who start in july are out. Where would I start though? with my d.ct judge or the COA judge? Would I (presumably) wait until after I get the offer with the COA? Or is this all anathema and I should just forget about doing back-to-back clerkships at all?

Does the judge you are going to have both of his/her clerks start in October (or have a career clerk) or does one start in August and one start in October. If the former, it is reasonable to think something could be worked out for a mid-September switch (I think a COA with an August start is probably out). If, however, the judge intentionally staggers start dates by a few months, you probably are facing an uphill climb on September COA positions working and I'd look at the handful of January starts at the COA level before seriously considering broaching the topic with the district judge.

With the risk of basically outing my judge, he has a career clerk and both term clerks start at the same time in early October.

I know one of his current clerks is going to a coa immediately after. Maybe I will email him and see how he navigated it.

OTOH this may be a sign that I shouldn't try for COA and need to stop chasing prestige at all expense haha

[ExperssioUnius]

With the risk of basically outing my judge, he has a career clerk and both term clerks start at the same time in early October.

I know one of his current clerks is going to a coa immediately after. Maybe I will email him and see how he navigated it.

OTOH this may be a sign that I shouldn't try for COA and need to stop chasing prestige at all expense haha

If that is the case, you might have some hope of a September exit date, and asking is not unreasonable. However, if the judge picked that setup for clerks starting, I suspect it might have something to do with the CJRA reporting deadline on the last day of September and a decision by the judge to not have clerk changeover until after the deadline and the motions are cleared. Honestly, if a judge is CJRA conscious, an October start date makes a lot more sense than September, even if it makes some people think twice about applying based on the extra month-plus of sitting around waiting to start.

[Anonymous User]

Rising 3L here who just picked up a d.ct for '21 (feeling VERY grateful to get something from this strange plan thing). Considering applying for COAs for 22 given that I have all my recs in order and the d.ct helps, but my dct judge has really weird start/end dates (Oct-Oct), meaning '22 clerkships pretty much all start at least a month before mine.

So my question is, is there any way I can still apply for COAs with, say, september starts and negotiate? Obviously judges who start in july are out. Where would I start though? with my d.ct judge or the COA judge? Would I (presumably) wait until after I get the offer with the COA? Or is this all anathema and I should just forget about doing back-to-back clerkships at all?

I came to this thread to ask this question as well. I'm very new to this process, but also just picked up a '21-22 district court clerkship. Is the way to navigate this "stacking" to add a line on your resume that's like "X Judge Clerk 21-22 (forthcoming)" and mention that in the cover letters?

[Anonymous User]

If a judge hired me as the "chief law clerk" (a position that would put me in charge of the other clerks), is that something to put on my resume and firm profile? Or is that too pretentious sounding?

[lavarman84]

Rising 3L here who just picked up a d.ct for '21 (feeling VERY grateful to get something from this strange plan thing). Considering applying for COAs for 22 given that I have all my recs in order and the d.ct helps, but my dct judge has really weird start/end dates (Oct-Oct), meaning '22 clerkships pretty much all start at least a month before mine.

So my question is, is there any way I can still apply for COAs with, say, september starts and negotiate? Obviously judges who start in july are out. Where would I start though? with my d.ct judge or the COA judge? Would I (presumably) wait until after I get the offer with the COA? Or is this all anathema and I should just forget about doing back-to-back clerkships at all?

I came to this thread to ask this question as well. I'm very new to this process, but also just picked up a '21-22 district court clerkship. Is the way to navigate this "stacking" to add a line on your resume that's like "X Judge Clerk 21-22 (forthcoming)" and mention that in the cover letters?

Yes.

[Anonymous User]

Rising 3L here who just picked up a d.ct for '21 (feeling VERY grateful to get something from this strange plan thing). Considering applying for COAs for 22 given that I have all my recs in order and the d.ct helps, but my dct judge has really weird start/end dates (Oct-Oct), meaning '22 clerkships pretty much all start at least a month before mine.

So my question is, is there any way I can still apply for COAs with, say, september starts and negotiate? Obviously judges who start in july are out. Where would I start though? with my d.ct judge or the COA judge? Would I (presumably) wait until after I get the offer with the COA? Or is this all anathema and I should just forget about doing back-to-back clerkships at all?

I came to this thread to ask this question as well. I'm very new to this process, but also just picked up a '21-22 district court clerkship. Is the way to navigate this "stacking" to add a line on your resume that's like "X Judge Clerk 21-22 (forthcoming)" and mention that in the cover letters?

I googled back when I was doing this and I have “prospective judicial law clerk” as my title

[Anonymous User]

Put it in the employment section as the most recent position. Mine looked something like this:

United States District Court of the District of State - Expected Sept 20XX to August 20XX.
Law Clerk to United States District Judge Old Guy

Also be sure to mention it in the cover letter.

[Anonymous User]

Related to this conversation: Will a district court clerkship in a "prestige" district (Not SDNY but e.g. EDVA) put a candidate who didn't get an interview for a COA chambers in '21 back in the conversation for the same judge for '22? Or is it "we've already rejected you once and don't want to see your name again when the only thing thats changed is you have a judge on your resume"

[Anonymous User]

Accidental double send

[Anonymous User]

Related to this conversation: Will a district court clerkship in a "prestige" district (Not SDNY but e.g. EDVA) put a candidate who didn't get an interview for a COA chambers in '21 back in the conversation for the same judge for '22? Or is it "we've already rejected you once and don't want to see your name again when the only thing thats changed is you have a judge on your resume"

Depends on the judge, but probably yes. In my chambers, you would probably get another legitimate look if you have a district clerkship, and, frankly, we wouldn't remember if we had "rejected" you the first time around. And I'm not sure the prestige level of the district would matter so much as grades/school/recs, tbh. But I do think grades/school/recs and prestige district court will correlate.

[cheaptilts]

Related to this conversation: Will a district court clerkship in a "prestige" district (Not SDNY but e.g. EDVA) put a candidate who didn't get an interview for a COA chambers in '21 back in the conversation for the same judge for '22? Or is it "we've already rejected you once and don't want to see your name again when the only thing thats changed is you have a judge on your resume"

I do not think that the average 11th Cir. judge, e.g., cares about or considers or knows anything about the “prestige” of an EDVA/EDNY/NDILL/NDCA clerkship. Maybe the clerks would. CoA judges would be more interested in an in-circuit D.Ct. clerkship most likely, from my experience. The concept of “Prestige district courts” outside of SDNY and maybe, maybe DDC, is really one that’s limited to law students (and maybe some law clerks screening apps for the judge).

Also, I’ll repeat what the above poster mentioned: 9 times out of
10, the judge won’t remember if she “rejected” you before. The judges receive hundreds (and sometimes thousands) of applications throughout the year. If they remember that they rejected your application it’s probably because something caught their eye (either your resume was in a “maybe”/“take another look” pile and never made it out, or the judge had a strong reaction to one of your interests/previous jobs).

[Anonymous User]

If an application comes into OSCAR a week late in competitive districts, do you think it has much of a chance? I picked up a COA so I withdrew a bunch of apps and plan to apply to more district courts with the extra OSCAR room.

[lavarman84]

Related to this conversation: Will a district court clerkship in a "prestige" district (Not SDNY but e.g. EDVA) put a candidate who didn't get an interview for a COA chambers in '21 back in the conversation for the same judge for '22? Or is it "we've already rejected you once and don't want to see your name again when the only thing thats changed is you have a judge on your resume"

Nobody can say for sure if you'll be in the conversation, but you're not going to get rejected simply because you applied previously.

[Anonymous User]

Would not taking corporations/business associations in law school be a ding against you if it's already covered by the bar in my state? Clerkship office has told me it's a must-take but seems boring as shit.

[Anonymous User]

Would not taking corporations/business associations in law school be a ding against you if it's already covered by the bar in my state? Clerkship office has told me it's a must-take but seems boring as shit.

YMMV. I didn’t take corporations and got multiple district court interviews, including one in NY and one in CA. I have a strong public interest focus though so maybe it was less of an issue with that narrative.

[mjb447]

Would not taking corporations/business associations in law school be a ding against you if it's already covered by the bar in my state? Clerkship office has told me it's a must-take but seems boring as shit.

I don't think I've ever heard Corporations mentioned as a must-take or should-take, and I got quite a few interviews without it.