Clerks Taking Questions Forum

[Anonymous User]

If an application is submitted on OSCAR, but only 2 out of 3 rec letters are submitted, will chambers ever look at the app? If the applicant is otherwise appealing?

When applying, I received an email from a judge's JA asking if I could reach out to the professor and ask for the missing rec letter to be submitted as soon as possible, and then an interview invitation from that judge about 20 minutes after the professor uploaded the letter to OSCAR. This situation didn't come up while I was clerking but I imagine we would have handled it the same away.

[Anonymous User]

Hi,

Trying to figure out how strong a candidate I am. Ideally, I would like to do a dist. clerkship on the West Coast and then 9th Circuit COA. However, I am open to clerking a lot of different places (especially for circuit-level). I'm worried though about being required to take a district court offer when I would have been competitive for a much more desirable clerkship elsewhere.


School: CCN
Grades: Top 10-15%
Journal: Secondary, Ed Board, Not Published
Recs: Strong
Writing Sample and Resume: Nothing Special

[Anonymous User]

Hi,

Trying to figure out how strong a candidate I am. Ideally, I would like to do a dist. clerkship on the West Coast and then 9th Circuit COA. However, I am open to clerking a lot of different places (especially for circuit-level). I'm worried though about being required to take a district court offer when I would have been competitive for a much more desirable clerkship elsewhere.


School: CCN
Grades: Top 10-15%
Journal: Secondary, Ed Board, Not Published
Recs: Strong
Writing Sample and Resume: Nothing Special

That's a strong profile, but I don't think so strong that you can really afford to be "specific desirable circuit or bust." My experience is with CA2, and at least in my chambers, that application wouldn't even get a second look barring a professor connection with the judge or similar hook.

To be clear, absolutely worth sending in apps and I wouldn't be surprised if you land something -- CA9 is big and you have a solid resume. But definitely apply more broadly.

[Anonymous User]

Hi,

Trying to figure out how strong a candidate I am. Ideally, I would like to do a dist. clerkship on the West Coast and then 9th Circuit COA. However, I am open to clerking a lot of different places (especially for circuit-level). I'm worried though about being required to take a district court offer when I would have been competitive for a much more desirable clerkship elsewhere.


School: CCN
Grades: Top 10-15%
Journal: Secondary, Ed Board, Not Published
Recs: Strong
Writing Sample and Resume: Nothing Special

In my prior CA9 chambers, this profile would have landed in the maybe-interview pile depending on which CCN (we had stricter cutoffs for NYU), how strong your grades were in fed courts / admin / con law / other doctrinal 2L classes, who the recommenders were, etc. But as a 3L application for the next cycle with a strong d.ct. clerkship lined up, assuming the grades stay the same or improve, it would probably be a yes (meaning -- yes, put this app before the judge with a recommendation to reach out for a screening interview), especially if you had strong ties to our area. Either way, it would be in the realm of competitive but not a lock to get an interview.

[Anonymous User]

Hi,

Trying to figure out how strong a candidate I am. Ideally, I would like to do a dist. clerkship on the West Coast and then 9th Circuit COA. However, I am open to clerking a lot of different places (especially for circuit-level). I'm worried though about being required to take a district court offer when I would have been competitive for a much more desirable clerkship elsewhere.


School: CCN
Grades: Top 10-15%
Journal: Secondary, Ed Board, Not Published
Recs: Strong
Writing Sample and Resume: Nothing Special

In my prior CA9 chambers, this profile would have landed in the maybe-interview pile depending on which CCN (we had stricter cutoffs for NYU), how strong your grades were in fed courts / admin / con law / other doctrinal 2L classes, who the recommenders were, etc. But as a 3L application for the next cycle with a strong d.ct. clerkship lined up, assuming the grades stay the same or improve, it would probably be a yes (meaning -- yes, put this app before the judge with a recommendation to reach out for a screening interview), especially if you had strong ties to our area. Either way, it would be in the realm of competitive but not a lock to get an interview.

Also prior CA9 (non-feeder) and agree with every word of this. Blanket CA9 with applications (you can skip the big feeders if your school limits your apps), then send out district court apps to judges in cities you would want to work in. This is a very high-level rule of thumb, but circuit clerkships seem to be little more portable, while district clerkships will have extra value in cities where you want to work or where your future employer has a lot of business (out west CD Cal and ND Cal will be pretty portable anywhere, but after that, focus on cities you could see yourself working in).

If you strike out in the coming weeks but CA9 is still the goal, blanket district courts within CA9 and focus on getting a clerkship with one of those judges for 2021, then re-apply to CA9 judges (especially ones from the same state as your district judge and ones that say they prefer people with prior clerkships) for 2022 with the new line on your resume.

[Anonymous User]

Generally speaking, how important are grades for magistrate clerkships in none-uber prestigious districts (e.g., SDNY, EDVA, NDCA, etc.)? Would grades below cum laude be too low if you went to a T 30-50 law school?

[Anonymous User]

Generally speaking, how important are grades for magistrate clerkships in none-uber prestigious districts (e.g., SDNY, EDVA, NDCA, etc.)? Would grades below cum laude be too low if you went to a T 30-50 law school?

FWIW, a friend from a school in and out of the bottom of that range who I believe was on the low-end of cum laude received an interview (he got another offer that he took before the interview) with a magistrate in CDCA. He was on ed-board of the flagship journal though.

[Anonymous User]

Generally speaking, how important are grades for magistrate clerkships in none-uber prestigious districts (e.g., SDNY, EDVA, NDCA, etc.)? Would grades below cum laude be too low if you went to a T 30-50 law school?

CD Cal./ND Cal. MJ clerk here. Experience often trumps grades here, though you obviously still need good grades just not tippy-top. Most of the MJ clerks I've met here had the credentials to clerk for a DJ and/or previously interviewed with a DJ.

[Anonymous User]

Obviously it will vary by chambers, but are judges interviewing more people than normal because interviews are being done via Zoom? I imagine that in previous years, judges might have been hesitant to interview a bunch of people because they knew each interview costs the applicant $500+ in hotel and travel, but now it's free and pretty easy. I have an interview with a DDC judge and want to know if I should be less optimistic than normal.

[beepboopbeep]

We were limited more by the amount of time the judge is willing to devote to interviews than by cost. I imagine there's still lots of work to be done in chambers even with arguments being remote, and interviews takes away from that. There might be more interviews because people will come off of the market from the plan (compared to the what, 7-8 years before that after the last hiring plan fell apart?), but I dunno that Zoom vs travel really makes much of a difference.

[nixy]

I agree. I don’t think judges have any interest in interviewing more people than they need to, or would change their interviewing practices just because there’s a technology change.

[Wild Card]

I've had a few Zoom interviews: the judges still insisted that I show up in person eventually.

I haven't been able to speak with any clerks (even though Zoom would have made this possible), so I assume that if I do make the trips, I'll be doing so to interview with the clerks.

[Anonymous User]

Just curious-- do judges (COA or District) look at non-traditional/older (30+) applicants any differently than normal?

[Anonymous User]

Just curious-- do judges (COA or District) look at non-traditional/older (30+) applicants any differently than normal?

I would put the cutoff line for "non-traditional/older" applicants closer to 35 than 30. I was the youngest clerk in my office at 27 and the oldest turned 31 during the clerkship--it's not uncommon for people to take a few years off before law school and then for judges to hire people with a few years of work experience after law school.

But to answer your question, yes and no. An applicant over 35 is going to have a different looking resume, but as long as you have a logical enough path that's led you to law school and then to clerking, it's not really going to be a big deal, and if you have particularly interesting life experiences it may even be helpful. For example, we had an app from someone who joined the Army out of high school and then started college at age 25. But on the other hand, we also had an app from an older candidate who had a few very different degrees and had made multiple drastic career changes, and everything about that person's materials suggested they weren't really committed to a career practicing law.

[Anonymous User]

Related but different question from above, is there a number of years of practicing where an applicant becomes significantly less attractive? If the applicant will be five years out at the time they start their clerkship is that generally viewed negatively?

[Anonymous User]

Related but different question from above, is there a number of years of practicing where an applicant becomes significantly less attractive? If the applicant will be five years out at the time they start their clerkship is that generally viewed negatively?

Really depends on the judge, but in most cases yes. This will be a bigger deal than your age. Judges usually want people toward the start of their career. People clerking after 2-3 years of practice is much more common than it was a decade ago, but outside of a small handful of judges who prefer extensive work experience, it's rare to see someone take a term clerkship 5+ years out of school. You may be an attractive career clerk candidate at that point if that option is on your mind though.

[Anonymous User]

Like others, trying to gauge my chances. Lower T14 that doesn't rank, but guesstimate top quartile or just missed it? E-Board at secondary, published note.

I've been told my LORs are very strong. Writing sample should be good too. Does anyone actually care about recommendations and writing sample, or is it all based on grades/school?

Apps submitted so I suppose it's academic at this point. Don't have high hopes but an interview would be nice and would validate the time I put into this process.

[Anonymous User]

For those of us who are Class of 2021 and for whom OSCAR apps just became viewable by judges on Monday, how long before we can expect to hear from chambers regarding interviews? And does that length of time depend on whether it's COA, d. ct., magistrate, or bankruptcy? Thanks

[lavarman84]

For those of us who are Class of 2021 and for whom OSCAR apps just became viewable by judges on Monday, how long before we can expect to hear from chambers regarding interviews? And does that length of time depend on whether it's COA, d. ct., magistrate, or bankruptcy? Thanks

Nobody can say. If you're a stellar candidate, you might hear something this week. If you're a more average candidate, it's going to depend on which judges, if any, are interested in interviewing you. Some chambers move fast. Some move slow. And that depends more on the specific judge than the court. Just gotta be patient. When I was hunting for clerkships, I used to apply and then basically put the application out of my mind until I got an answer. Think that's the best way to keep your sanity.

[Anonymous User]

My partner mentor from my SA firm offered to call some chambers on my behalf. They aren't a recommender, but I know that they are enthusiastic and would have good things to say. How common are these calls, and is it helpful to just have them cold call the main chambers number?

[wwwcol]

My partner mentor from my SA firm offered to call some chambers on my behalf. They aren't a recommender, but I know that they are enthusiastic and would have good things to say. How common are these calls, and is it helpful to just have them cold call the main chambers number?

Not helpful unless partner knows judge. But if they know each other, v helpful in st least getting your app pulled from the stack and looked at. This is very common

[Anonymous User]

My partner mentor from my SA firm offered to call some chambers on my behalf. They aren't a recommender, but I know that they are enthusiastic and would have good things to say. How common are these calls, and is it helpful to just have them cold call the main chambers number?

Not helpful unless partner knows judge. But if they know each other, v helpful in st least getting your app pulled from the stack and looked at. This is very common

Disagree. Even if the judge doesn't know the partner, this could still be helpful, particularly if the recommendation is very strong. The judge will likely at the very least listen to the voicemail, and it may encourage the judge to glance at your app, or for clerks to take a closer look. There is NO harm from doing this, and only potential benefits, so I would do it.

[Anonymous User]

My partner mentor from my SA firm offered to call some chambers on my behalf. They aren't a recommender, but I know that they are enthusiastic and would have good things to say. How common are these calls, and is it helpful to just have them cold call the main chambers number?

Not helpful unless partner knows judge. But if they know each other, v helpful in st least getting your app pulled from the stack and looked at. This is very common

Disagree. Even if the judge doesn't know the partner, this could still be helpful, particularly if the recommendation is very strong. The judge will likely at the very least listen to the voicemail, and it may encourage the judge to glance at your app, or for clerks to take a closer look. There is NO harm from doing this, and only potential benefits, so I would do it.

Tend to agree. It's not going to hurt you unless the partner has an outright bad reputation (and at big firms that is very uncommon). You'll get the biggest bump if the partner knows the judge, but if the judge knows *of* the partner and respects them as an attorney it might at least get your app pulled.

[Anonymous User]

How long does it take non-feeder COA judges typically to give an offer/rejection after an interview? I interviewed the day after the reading period ended (Wednesday the 17th) but haven’t heard anything yet and wondering if I should assume it’s a rejection for me or if I still have a chance at an offer.

[Anonymous User]

How long does it take non-feeder COA judges typically to give an offer/rejection after an interview? I interviewed the day after the reading period ended (Wednesday the 17th) but haven’t heard anything yet and wondering if I should assume it’s a rejection for me or if I still have a chance at an offer.

You still have a chance at an offer. Many judges take a week. Remember, the judge may be interviewing other people, including yesterday and today. Although not the norm, I received an offer 7 weeks after my interview. If you get past a week or so without an offer, that is about when the odds of getting an offer start going down.