Let's talk 6th Circuit! Forum

[clerky123]

Does anyone have insight into which 6th Cir. Judges generally hire off-plan and if so, when/how to apply? Same for KY DC judges. Looking primarily within a 2 hour radius of Louisville for the 2023 term. Thank you!

Most EDKY judges hire off plan (though not all). The ones who hire off plan accept paper applications but a quick call to chambers will confirm how to apply. I think typically Vantatenhove hires earliest, but some other judges occasionally will hire in March as well. The only judge I can think of in EDKY that hires on plan is Wier (and maybe Reeves? Not sure on that). All the judges in the district seem to have a lot of loyalty from their clerks so it’s a good place to work. I’ve heard great things about Caldwell, Bunning, and Wier. If you want EDKY, I’d really recommend sending applications right now because I know some of the judges have begun hiring for 2023.

Thank you!!! I assume the "start applying now" advice generally applies to WDKY as well?

[clerky123]

Does anyone have insight into which 6th Cir. Judges generally hire off-plan and if so, when/how to apply? Same for KY DC judges. Looking primarily within a 2 hour radius of Louisville for the 2023 term. Thank you!

Most EDKY judges hire off plan (though not all). The ones who hire off plan accept paper applications but a quick call to chambers will confirm how to apply. I think typically Vantatenhove hires earliest, but some other judges occasionally will hire in March as well. The only judge I can think of in EDKY that hires on plan is Wier (and maybe Reeves? Not sure on that). All the judges in the district seem to have a lot of loyalty from their clerks so it’s a good place to work. I’ve heard great things about Caldwell, Bunning, and Wier. If you want EDKY, I’d really recommend sending applications right now because I know some of the judges have begun hiring for 2023.

One more follow-up question: For those that don't have an email listed on Oscar or something do you recommend just mailing applications to all or calling to ask if they are even accepting applications still for 2023?

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone have insight into which 6th Cir. Judges generally hire off-plan and if so, when/how to apply? Same for KY DC judges. Looking primarily within a 2 hour radius of Louisville for the 2023 term. Thank you!

Most EDKY judges hire off plan (though not all). The ones who hire off plan accept paper applications but a quick call to chambers will confirm how to apply. I think typically Vantatenhove hires earliest, but some other judges occasionally will hire in March as well. The only judge I can think of in EDKY that hires on plan is Wier (and maybe Reeves? Not sure on that). All the judges in the district seem to have a lot of loyalty from their clerks so it’s a good place to work. I’ve heard great things about Caldwell, Bunning, and Wier. If you want EDKY, I’d really recommend sending applications right now because I know some of the judges have begun hiring for 2023.

One more follow-up question: For those that don't have an email listed on Oscar or something do you recommend just mailing applications to all or calling to ask if they are even accepting applications still for 2023?

Either or! If you want to get apps in next week it may be better call and ask if there’s an email address you can send it to.

[Anonymous User]

Has Griffin moved yet for 2023?

[clerky123]

Hi all -

Has anyone worked with Senior Judge Joseph H. McKinley, Jr. in WDKY? If so, what was the experience like?

His Oscar post says this: Applicants should be aware that the position is for a clerkship with a Senior District Judge. Our jury trials are infrequent, and law clerks may not have any jury trial experience during their tenure. Chambers staff work on a number of civil litigation issues, including a significant amount of pro se prisoner § 1983 cases."

Is this pretty standard for Senior judges? I know they can generally just work on whatever cases they want. I am really interested in these types of cases but I also don't want to limit the experience I might have. Is the conventional wisdom to apply anyway and then decide at the interview stage (IF you even get one) whether or not you take the interview offer based on this info?

Any insight into how the application thought process might be different for senior judges would be helpful! Thank you!

[Anonymous User]

Hi all -

Has anyone worked with Senior Judge Joseph H. McKinley, Jr. in WDKY? If so, what was the experience like?

His Oscar post says this: Applicants should be aware that the position is for a clerkship with a Senior District Judge. Our jury trials are infrequent, and law clerks may not have any jury trial experience during their tenure. Chambers staff work on a number of civil litigation issues, including a significant amount of pro se prisoner § 1983 cases."

Is this pretty standard for Senior judges? I know they can generally just work on whatever cases they want. I am really interested in these types of cases but I also don't want to limit the experience I might have. Is the conventional wisdom to apply anyway and then decide at the interview stage (IF you even get one) whether or not you take the interview offer based on this info?

Any insight into how the application thought process might be different for senior judges would be helpful! Thank you!

Seniors can choose their caseload—some are full, some are much less. You can roughly tell by the number of clerks they hire. Sounds like this is the latter.

[Anonymous User]

Has Griffin moved yet for 2023?

Bump

[Anonymous User]

Anyone know why White has not been able to fill the 22-23 clerkship? She seems like a great judge to clerk for and the requirement for grades according to Oscar is top 20%, which doesn't seem that steep for a liberal circuit?

[Anonymous User]

Anyone know why White has not been able to fill the 22-23 clerkship? She seems like a great judge to clerk for and the requirement for grades according to Oscar is top 20%, which doesn't seem that steep for a liberal circuit?

I wouldn't read too much into the "top XX%" stuff on OSCAR. A lot of judges set it lower than what they actually want to not discourage students from applying.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone know why White has not been able to fill the 22-23 clerkship? She seems like a great judge to clerk for and the requirement for grades according to Oscar is top 20%, which doesn't seem that steep for a liberal circuit?

I wouldn't read too much into the "top XX%" stuff on OSCAR. A lot of judges set it lower than what they actually want to not discourage students from applying.

Also, it’s almost certainly that she hasn’t gotten around to it, or just forgot to update OSCAR, not that she hasn’t gotten a qualified applicant

[Anonymous User]

Griffin has hired at least 1 for 2023.

[Anonymous User]

Nalbandian is hiring for 2024-2025.

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know if Thapar or Sutton is full for 2023 or 24?

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know if Thapar or Sutton is full for 2023 or 24?

Sutton's long been full for 2023; I've heard he may have one 2024 opening left.

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know if Thapar or Sutton is full for 2023 or 24?

Both definitely full for 2023.

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know if Thapar or Sutton is full for 2023 or 24?

Both definitely full for 2023.

Thapar just put up OSCAR postings for 23 and 24 so maybe there are a couple of spots.

[kolio6]

He posted 1 each for 23 and 24 and 4 for 25.

[Anonymous User]

Other than Gibbons, are any of the Republican appointees on the 6th more moderate in ideology (or at least non-ideological in hiring)?

[Anonymous User]

Other than Gibbons, are any of the Republican appointees on the 6th more moderate in ideology (or at least non-ideological in hiring)?

Are you asking about active judges only or both active and senior?

[Anonymous User]

Other than Gibbons, are any of the Republican appointees on the 6th more moderate in ideology (or at least non-ideological in hiring)?

I think Readler has hired liberals. I also don’t think Griffin cares about ideology, but I can’t confirm that. As to the senior judges, they seem to hire without caring about ideology. (Take this with a grain of salt: I am reporting this secondhand).

[Anonymous User]

Other than Gibbons, are any of the Republican appointees on the 6th more moderate in ideology (or at least non-ideological in hiring)?

I think Readler has hired liberals. I also don’t think Griffin cares about ideology, but I can’t confirm that. As to the senior judges, they seem to hire without caring about ideology. (Take this with a grain of salt: I am reporting this secondhand).

If Readler is hiring liberals, then I would believe almost any extremely conservative judge is open to hiring liberals at this point.

[Anonymous User]

Other than Gibbons, are any of the Republican appointees on the 6th more moderate in ideology (or at least non-ideological in hiring)?

Are you asking about active judges only or both active and senior?

Honestly, any judge that will be hiring clerks in 2024 or later.

To the other poster's comment, I'm also surprised that Readler would hire liberals given his ideology. Doesn't seem like it would be fun to be a counter-clerk for him (or in general, to be honest), but I guess anything's possible.

[Anonymous User]

Other than Gibbons, are any of the Republican appointees on the 6th more moderate in ideology (or at least non-ideological in hiring)?

Are you asking about active judges only or both active and senior?

Honestly, any judge that will be hiring clerks in 2024 or later.

To the other poster's comment, I'm also surprised that Readler would hire liberals given his ideology. Doesn't seem like it would be fun to be a counter-clerk for him (or in general, to be honest), but I guess anything's possible.

I met two classes of Readler clerks and they were all extremely conservative, fed-soc types.

Griffin is pretty moderate in some areas, but hardline conservative in others. He also hires across the political spectrum (probably close to 50/50).

If Rogers is still hiring for future cycles, he would be a good target for moderates/liberals from my understanding. Suhrheinrich would be another option but I think he’s slowing down considerably.

[Anonymous User]

Boggs, Murphy, and Siler hire liberals.

[Anonymous User]

Other than Gibbons, are any of the Republican appointees on the 6th more moderate in ideology (or at least non-ideological in hiring)?

Are you asking about active judges only or both active and senior?

Honestly, any judge that will be hiring clerks in 2024 or later.

To the other poster's comment, I'm also surprised that Readler would hire liberals given his ideology. Doesn't seem like it would be fun to be a counter-clerk for him (or in general, to be honest), but I guess anything's possible.

I met two classes of Readler clerks and they were all extremely conservative, fed-soc types.

Griffin is pretty moderate in some areas, but hardline conservative in others. He also hires across the political spectrum (probably close to 50/50).

If Rogers is still hiring for future cycles, he would be a good target for moderates/liberals from my understanding. Suhrheinrich would be another option but I think he’s slowing down considerably.

Different anon here from the one who mentioned Readler before. I know for a fact he hired at least one liberal clerk in the past. As for whether it would be fun, if you can put politics aside, I imagine it would be a good experience. As a liberal, I found Readler to be a very likable person, politics aside. Would I have clerked for him? Yes. (Although, I was very happy clerking for the conservative judge who hired me.)

Griffin and Rogers are both good suggestions. I don't think I'd call either moderate, but they're not ideologues and aren't ideological in hiring (as far as I know). Obviously, Sutton isn't a moderate and is nearly impossible to get, but he'll hire liberals. If I was a liberal with elite credentials, I'd clerk for him over Thapar. Siler also is a conservative (but not an ideologue) and requires spending a year in rural Kentucky (or commuting a long way for work), but he's not ideological in hiring.

So to answer the question, excepting Helene White, yes, Gibbons is the only moderate Republican appointee. (Although, I don't know anything about the ideologies of Suhrheinrich, Norris, or Ralph Guy or whether any still hire clerks.) But plenty of the Republican appointees are nonideological in hiring.