Clerks Taking Questions Forum

[BlackAndOrange84]

Is it inappropriate to inquire (either before or during a clerkship interview) about pay? I struck out on six previous fed clerkship interviews, so I decided to apply to state courts. I’ve just accepted an interview with a state CoA judge, but also learned that entry level pay for state courts is much lower than I anticipated. (Like minimum wage low). Would it be appropriate to email and ask about the pay scale to avoid wasting my time and theirs? I wouldn’t be able to afford my rent if the pay is actually as low as what I was told.

State employee salaries are pretty much always a matter of public record. Go do some digging.

[anon sequitur]

See if the courthouse has some sort of HR person and call them to ask, rather than calling chambers staff. Really crappy of a government job not to at least list a salary range.

[Anonymous User]

Generally for how long after sending an application should you hold out hope? I sent a batch of apps about two months ago, but I have not heard anything. Is it safe to say those were all rejects?

[Dipper]

Generally for how long after sending an application should you hold out hope? I sent a batch of apps about two months ago, but I have not heard anything. Is it safe to say those were all rejects?

No, far from it. Many chambers don't review applications until their designated time for review/interviewing comes around (for my chambers, that's Feb/March).

[BulletTooth]

Generally for how long after sending an application should you hold out hope? I sent a batch of apps about two months ago, but I have not heard anything. Is it safe to say those were all rejects?

Yeah, very few of those chambers are probably in the process of reviewing. If your recommenders are willing and have connections, you should get them to call chambers. That is sometimes a good way to get a chance at an interview before judges start the formal hiring process.

[Anonymous User]

Generally for how long after sending an application should you hold out hope? I sent a batch of apps about two months ago, but I have not heard anything. Is it safe to say those were all rejects?

Yeah, very few of those chambers are probably in the process of reviewing. If your recommenders are willing and have connections, you should get them to call chambers. That is sometimes a good way to get a chance at an interview before judges start the formal hiring process.

Agreed. Not saying that there aren’t judges hiring right now (my judge reviews on a rolling basis and will move as quickly or as slowly as s/he thinks is necessary depending on how competitive the applicants are), but this is definitely the offseason. Things will pick up in January once fall semester grades drop. June through August is still the busiest time of year.

[Anonymous User]

Quick Question:

I am using my published note as a writing sample - would it be weird for physical, mailed applications if I were to include an actual reprint of the note (like, bound - just the note and not the other pieces in the issue) rather than just a copy printed out on copy paper? I have some extras laying around, thought it might be cool, but don't want to stand out in a bad way.

[Anonymous User]

Do chambers typically send clerks an offer letter after they've accepted a clerkship position? Or is it just the judge's word that future clerks trust?

[Anonymous User]

Do chambers typically send clerks an offer letter after they've accepted a clerkship position? Or is it just the judge's word that future clerks trust?

I got it in writing, mailed to me a few days later, from both my judges. While I don’t think there’s anything that obliges them to do so, it would strike me as odd for someone who made their career as a lawyer not to memoralize an offer and acceptance in a writing.

[Anonymous User]

Plenty of judges don’t, though. I accepted my clerkship in July and got an offer letter in April when I started looking for housing (I was moving for the clerkship). If you have a reason for needing it in writing I’m sure the judge will oblige.

[HillandHollow]

Quick Question:

I am using my published note as a writing sample - would it be weird for physical, mailed applications if I were to include an actual reprint of the note (like, bound - just the note and not the other pieces in the issue) rather than just a copy printed out on copy paper? I have some extras laying around, thought it might be cool, but don't want to stand out in a bad way.

First, note whether the application info sheet says something about the formatting of submissions. If we requested that everything be sent in 14 pt double space and you sent us a bound note that is in 10 pt, single space, we'd be annoyed.

Second, I am not sure you'd get extra cool points, but I am also not sure that it would cause you to stand out in a bad way. I think there must be some people out there would review it on either side of that line.
Related to that point, I think--for me personally--sending in the bound version would make me think more about how much this was actually your unedited writing, and whether you'd received substantial editing from other students, etc.

All to say that I don't think it's a clear cut decision, but I would tend to advise not sending the bound version.

[HillandHollow]

Do chambers typically send clerks an offer letter after they've accepted a clerkship position? Or is it just the judge's word that future clerks trust?

I got it in writing, mailed to me a few days later, from both my judges. While I don’t think there’s anything that obliges them to do so, it would strike me as odd for someone who made their career as a lawyer not to memoralize an offer and acceptance in a writing.

I never received an "offer letter." I just had the judge's verbal offer, and then some emails between myself and the career clerk. When I needed it, HR was able to provide me a letter proving that I had the job and it paid xx amount.

[catahoula]

Do chambers typically send clerks an offer letter after they've accepted a clerkship position? Or is it just the judge's word that future clerks trust?

I got it in writing, mailed to me a few days later, from both my judges. While I don’t think there’s anything that obliges them to do so, it would strike me as odd for someone who made their career as a lawyer not to memoralize an offer and acceptance in a writing.

I never received an "offer letter." I just had the judge's verbal offer, and then some emails between myself and the career clerk. When I needed it, HR was able to provide me a letter proving that I had the job and it paid xx amount.

I also only received a verbal offer and then was able to get a letter from HR when I was moving/renting.

[Anonymous User]

Is it fine to apply with a 15-17-page brief I wrote for LRW as a 1L (got a good grade) as a writing sample? All my other writing samples from the summer at a firm are memos about 5 pgs long. 2L applying for 2020. Haven't done any other legal writing in law school besides a memo for LRW.

[lavarman84]

Do chambers typically send clerks an offer letter after they've accepted a clerkship position? Or is it just the judge's word that future clerks trust?

For me, one judge did about three weeks to a month after the verbal offer. The other judge did not. I simply traded emails with the current clerks.

[lavarman84]

Is it fine to apply with a 15-17-page brief I wrote for LRW as a 1L (got a good grade) as a writing sample? All my other writing samples from the summer at a firm are memos about 5 pgs long. 2L applying for 2020. Haven't done any other legal writing in law school besides a memo for LRW.

If it's a good writing sample, sure. I applied with something similar for my first clerkship. Some judges might want something shorter, though. In that case, see if you can cut out some unnecessary sections and just summarize on the cover page.

[HillandHollow]

Is it fine to apply with a 15-17-page brief I wrote for LRW as a 1L (got a good grade) as a writing sample? All my other writing samples from the summer at a firm are memos about 5 pgs long. 2L applying for 2020. Haven't done any other legal writing in law school besides a memo for LRW.

Yes, unless the judge asks for the sample to be fewer pages. In that case, you will need to cut parts out (indicate on the cover letter if you do this).

[VirginiaFan]

If you interviewed with a judge and have yet to hear back, is it standard to email an updated transcript and resume once grades come out?

[Auxilio]

If you interviewed with a judge and have yet to hear back, is it standard to email an updated transcript and resume once grades come out?

I don't know if it's standard, but I can't imagine it would hurt much. I'm not sure why you would send an updated resume because your grades came back, but if the grades improved I would definitely send a new transcript.

[Anonymous User]

If you interviewed with a judge and have yet to hear back, is it standard to email an updated transcript and resume once grades come out?

I don't know if it's standard, but I can't imagine it would hurt much. I'm not sure why you would send an updated resume because your grades came back, but if the grades improved I would definitely send a new transcript.

I'd update the resume with your new GPA, at least if your GPA increases (and probably if it decreases too, just to be honest about it, although I don't think not sending an updated resume is necessarily dishonest). It'd be nice for the judge or clerks to look at the resume and be able to have your current GPA on it.

Generally though, IMO updating is always a good idea. Just to remind the judge you exist and are still interested.

[riverdalechick]

I had three district court clerkship interviews recently. One two weeks ago, one and a half weeks ago and one a week ago. I haven't heard back from any and I am starting to lose hope. Mainly here to commiserate since staring at my phone isn't doing me any good!

[mjb447]

I had three district court clerkship interviews recently. One two weeks ago, one and a half weeks ago and one a week ago. I haven't heard back from any and I am starting to lose hope. Mainly here to commiserate since staring at my phone isn't doing me any good!

I get the impulse, but that’s really not too long for any of them.

[Anonymous User]

Anonymous because this username, along with these questions, would out me to several judges.


A few questions:

1) How necessary is it to clerk for a successful career as a litigator? Is Dct the floor, or do you need a CoA as well?

2) How much does doing a Dct first help your chances for COA?

3) How important is it that your Dct be in your target market?

[Anonymous User]

From my own experience/experience of people I knew, doing a DCt clerkship is very helpful for getting a COA clerkship. I mean if you have the qualifications to get COA out of the gate, then maybe it won't matter, but anecdotally, doing a DCt clerkship within a circuit can help get you a COA in that circuit (even if you haven't done the clerkship yet; if a COA judge has had consistently good experiences with your DCt judge/clerks coming from that judge, it will help you).

As for the other questions, in my field (government) clerking is extremely helpful for a litigator, although DCt should be sufficient unless you're looking specifically to do appellate work. And the value is transferable, it doesn't require that you clerked in your target market (it could even be better not to, since if you clerked in a given market and you are then running your own cases in the government, you might be conflicted out of appearing before your former judge for a while). But I can't speak to biglaw.

[Barrred]

A few questions:

1) How necessary is it to clerk for a successful career as a litigator? Is Dct the floor, or do you need a CoA as well?

2) How much does doing a Dct first help your chances for COA?

3) How important is it that your Dct be in your target market?

1) Not necessary, based on the majority of biglaw litigation partners without clerkship credentials.
2) I think that it helps for some judges and not others. Judges' hiring is very idiosyncratic. Having a dct clerkship lined up certainly wont hurt you. It probably helps non-traditional applicants more than traditional applicants (i.e., those without top grades from top schools)
3) Its somewhat important, unless your dct clerkship is in a prestigious/busy market (e.g., SDNY clerkship will be great, even if you plan ultimately to practice in DC). But random, non-target-market clerkships still have some value (its still a signal that you probably know how to read/write well, and have some experience with motions practice).