Best and worst judges to clerk for Forum

[Anonymous User]

Any thoughts on 8th Circuit judges?

In order of prestige/selectivity, I think roughly Stras > Colloton/Gruender/Kelly > Loken/Kobes > everyone else. I don't really know anything about Benton though my guess is he's in category 3. Melloy seems to be a well-regarded senior judge.

Stras feeds to Gorsuch and Thomas but also hires liberals. Stras, Kelly, and Kobes are all supposed to be friendly and good to work for. Kelly requires work experience or a district court clerkship. There are several Colloton clerks with bad experiences, he's reportedly not very personable and he works his clerks hard. I know at least one upper T14 clerkship office has a caveat emptor attitude towards him. Grasz seems like a bit of a political hack that stumbled his way into a seat on a federal appellate court, though that might be unfair.

The vast majority of the circuit (maybe even everyone but Kelly) is off-plan.

I think Minnesota and Iowa also have notably strong state supreme courts, though nobody at Stras's level pre-COA, which might be something to look into. Papik on the Nebraska Supreme Court is very well-credentialed as well.

[Anonymous User]

Any bad N.D. Tex. judges?

No real horror stories. As to workload, Lindsey and Lynn work clerks pretty hard, as does O'Connor (who hires mostly through fed soc). A bunch of the judges are new, so you won't hear much reliable intel on, say, Starr, Hendrix, Kacsmaryk, Brown, or Pittman---although I've heard anecdotally that Pittman is fine. Fish, Cummings, and McBryde are all great to work for.

Thanks for this. Do you have any specifics on what it's like to work for Godbey or Boyle? Since they've been on the bench for over a decade, I figured there would be some decent information out there. As far as Godbey goes, at least, I wasn't able to turn up much of anything searching on TLS.

Hendrix is anecdotally very well-regarded in DOJ circles.

[Anonymous User]

Any thoughts on the Seventh Circuit and/or NDIL? Judges Wood, Scudder, and Feinerman all teach at Chicago and are beloved by their students. Judge Easterbrook I've heard mixed things on.

Big Frank clerks literally do nothing. He writes everything.

According to his OSCAR he only hires from Chicago anyway.

I think Barrett, Brennan, Kanne, and Sykes are off-plan. Sykes feeds Thomas and maybe some others. She's supposed to be very nice. I've heard Barrett and Hamilton are both good experiences too though they're both pretty selective.

[Anonymous User]

Any insight into ND Cal judges?

Other than Alsup, I've never heard of any of them as being "bad" or worth avoiding. I'm only really familiar with the SF judges though.

I've heard Gonzales-Rogers can be difficult, but only in terms of litigants, I'm not sure how she treats her clerks.

As for Alsup, it's common knowledge that he works absurd hours, and expects his clerks (and to a lesser extent externs) to do the same. We're talking like 5 am to 8 pm every day. He doesn't do it to be cruel like Kozinski used to be famous for, he's just a workhorse who takes his job incredibly seriously. I've also heard that his clerks have to walk his dogs sometimes, which some might find demeaning, but that sounds like a great way to get some time off actual work IMO.

Personally, I'd be hesitant to clerk for him because the hours sound torturous, but it is temporary after all. Also, anyone familiar with Alsup who sees him on your resume will immediately know that you have the capacity to bill a shitload of hours. His name also carries a lot of clout in the NDCA IP litigation scene (whether he deserves it or not).

At the other end of the spectrum, Breyer is very laid back and apparently his clerks basically never go past 9 to 5. He also filters out a lot of tedium (ERISA, social security appeals etc.) through senior status, so his clerks generally spend less time on rote crap like that. He's pretty much the MDL guy in NDCA, so he gets a disproportionate amount of nationwide class actions.

Chhabria is interesting; unlike most judges, he neither has a career clerk, nor does he stagger his clerk's terms. Thus, every new term he has 3 new clerks, who all have to learn the ropes at the same time. I get the impression it can be pretty chaotic, but I'm guessing he'd switch it up if it didn't work.

Former ND Cal clerk here. Alsup is definitely the most demanding of the clerkships in the district. Didn't know about the walking dogs bit, but I'd probably consider that a slight plus. Koh is a step down workload-wise, but the only other one I'd describe as particularly demanding. Only ones I'd avoid due to personality are Donato and maybe Brown Armstrong. Neither has a great reputation with practitioners and I haven't heard good things about either clerkship experience. At the other end of the spectrum, Tigar, Chen, and Seeborg are widely considered to be fantastic. I've also heard good things about Gilliam and Freeman from former clerks.

Just a note about the above: Breyer is a very difficult clerkship to get, his clerks still occasionally go up and clerk for his brother. The great hours and weeding out of less interesting cases is well known to applicants and so I wouldn't get your hopes up without grades that could get you feeder-level COA clerkships.

Chabria's also a top feeder for a district court judge.

[Anonymous User]

How competitive are the San Jose judges?

Any insight into ND Cal judges?

Other than Alsup, I've never heard of any of them as being "bad" or worth avoiding. I'm only really familiar with the SF judges though.

I've heard Gonzales-Rogers can be difficult, but only in terms of litigants, I'm not sure how she treats her clerks.

As for Alsup, it's common knowledge that he works absurd hours, and expects his clerks (and to a lesser extent externs) to do the same. We're talking like 5 am to 8 pm every day. He doesn't do it to be cruel like Kozinski used to be famous for, he's just a workhorse who takes his job incredibly seriously. I've also heard that his clerks have to walk his dogs sometimes, which some might find demeaning, but that sounds like a great way to get some time off actual work IMO.

Personally, I'd be hesitant to clerk for him because the hours sound torturous, but it is temporary after all. Also, anyone familiar with Alsup who sees him on your resume will immediately know that you have the capacity to bill a shitload of hours. His name also carries a lot of clout in the NDCA IP litigation scene (whether he deserves it or not).

At the other end of the spectrum, Breyer is very laid back and apparently his clerks basically never go past 9 to 5. He also filters out a lot of tedium (ERISA, social security appeals etc.) through senior status, so his clerks generally spend less time on rote crap like that. He's pretty much the MDL guy in NDCA, so he gets a disproportionate amount of nationwide class actions.

Chhabria is interesting; unlike most judges, he neither has a career clerk, nor does he stagger his clerk's terms. Thus, every new term he has 3 new clerks, who all have to learn the ropes at the same time. I get the impression it can be pretty chaotic, but I'm guessing he'd switch it up if it didn't work.

[Anonymous User]

Any word on E.D. Louisiana judges? (Lemelle, Vitter, Africk etc.)

[LBJ's Hair]

How competitive are the San Jose judges?

I don't know why SF vs South Bay would make a difference. It's more like "judges who have SCOTUS connections vs the rest."

[Anonymous User]

any insight into edny judges?

stay away: dearcy hall, donnelly, cogan, mauskopf, block

Can you provide individualized reasons?

I mostly agree with this: Mauskopf and Block are not very good judges; Cogan and DeArcy Hall works their clerks to the bone (but are good people); Donnelly is great though, imho.

[Anonymous User]

Any insight on Third Circuit? Especially the Newark judges.

[Anonymous User]

Any insight on Third Circuit? Especially the Newark judges.

With the caveat that the Trump appointees are after my time, nobody (other than Judge Sloviter, who is inactive) had a "reputation." Of the Newark judges, everyone's clerks seemed very happy. Shwartz seemed to work her bunch a bit harder than the others, but there wasn't any grousing.

More broadly, Krause (an ex-Kozinski herself) worked her clerks the hardest, but again, everyone said wonderful things (and she seemed to really care about getting stuff right).

By and large, there didn't seem to be any "avoids," and no rumors circulated to that effect.

[Anonymous User]

any insight into edny judges?

stay away: dearcy hall, donnelly, cogan, mauskopf, block

Can you provide individualized reasons?

I mostly agree with this: Mauskopf and Block are not very good judges; Cogan and DeArcy Hall works their clerks to the bone (but are good people); Donnelly is great though, imho.

Don’t mean to push this, but for my own edification what makes someone a not-very-good judge?

[Anonymous User]

any insight into edny judges?

stay away: dearcy hall, donnelly, cogan, mauskopf, block

Can you provide individualized reasons?

I mostly agree with this: Mauskopf and Block are not very good judges; Cogan and DeArcy Hall works their clerks to the bone (but are good people); Donnelly is great though, imho.

Don’t mean to push this, but for my own edification what makes someone a not-very-good judge?

In general, could mean any (or a combination) of the following: not very intelligent, consistently lacks empathy for parties (e.g. blanket dislike for plaintiffs/criminal defendants), racist/sexist/homophobic/etc. off the bench, constantly behind on the 6-month list due to laziness (for active judges), or being afraid to actually make decisions.

[Anonymous User]

Any thoughts on 8th Circuit judges?

In order of prestige/selectivity, I think roughly Stras > Colloton/Gruender/Kelly > Loken/Kobes > everyone else. I don't really know anything about Benton though my guess is he's in category 3. Melloy seems to be a well-regarded senior judge.

Stras feeds to Gorsuch and Thomas but also hires liberals. Stras, Kelly, and Kobes are all supposed to be friendly and good to work for. Kelly requires work experience or a district court clerkship. There are several Colloton clerks with bad experiences, he's reportedly not very personable and he works his clerks hard. I know at least one upper T14 clerkship office has a caveat emptor attitude towards him. Grasz seems like a bit of a political hack that stumbled his way into a seat on a federal appellate court, though that might be unfair.

The vast majority of the circuit (maybe even everyone but Kelly) is off-plan.

I think Minnesota and Iowa also have notably strong state supreme courts, though nobody at Stras's level pre-COA, which might be something to look into. Papik on the Nebraska Supreme Court is very well-credentialed as well.

This is a really long shot, but does anyone know if Matt McDermott on the Iowa Supreme Court has hired for 2020? Is he just taking an associate from his firm or actually considering apps?

[Anonymous User]

Any insight on Third Circuit? Especially the Newark judges.

Current CA3. Chagares is a fantastic boss - true mensch. Matey is interesting -- seems nice, and unusually academic, particularly given his background (Kellogg, AUSA, etc - not a professor like Bibas). If you're interested, read the QI one that came down a few weeks ago.

[Anonymous User]

Don’t mean to push this, but for my own edification what makes someone a not-very-good judge?

In general, could mean any (or a combination) of the following: not very intelligent, consistently lacks empathy for parties (e.g. blanket dislike for plaintiffs/criminal defendants), racist/sexist/homophobic/etc. off the bench, constantly behind on the 6-month list due to laziness (for active judges), or being afraid to actually make decisions.

I think the management stuff is probably the worst - someone who won’t let things out the door in a timely manner, inconsistent, changes mind, can’t communicate what they want.

Obviously if they’re just a raging asshole that’s horrible, but a raging asshole who runs a tight ship and gets stuff done and is efficient is better than one who’s a disaster logistically (not that either are good).

One judge I know of is sort of a disaster in that they won’t refer anything to the magistrate judge, they handle ALL their own discovery disputes, they hold hearings on EVERY motion, and they require this very strange incredibly long format for opinions (and they publish everything they can possibly justify). That said, I believe their clerks like the judge as a person and find them a good boss on a personal level, in no small part because they work as hard as they work their clerks and alongside their clerks.

[Anonymous User]

Any insight on Third Circuit? Especially the Newark judges.

Current CA3. Chagares is a fantastic boss - true mensch. Matey is interesting -- seems nice, and unusually academic, particularly given his background (Kellogg, AUSA, etc - not a professor like Bibas). If you're interested, read the QI one that came down a few weeks ago.

Seconding re Chagares -- not a CA3 clerk personally, but spent a lot of time with him at an event and he was tremendously nice/engaging.

[Anonymous User]

Any insight on Third Circuit? Especially the Newark judges.

Current CA3. Chagares is a fantastic boss - true mensch. Matey is interesting -- seems nice, and unusually academic, particularly given his background (Kellogg, AUSA, etc - not a professor like Bibas). If you're interested, read the QI one that came down a few weeks ago.

Seconding re Chagares -- not a CA3 clerk personally, but spent a lot of time with him at an event and he was tremendously nice/engaging.

Bibas is supposed to be brilliant, interested in mentoring, and obsessive about legal writing, but he’s also supposed be one of the most difficult interviews on the federal courts, a tad socially off (as you might expect from someone who went to college at age 15), and demanding.

[Anonymous User]

How competitive are the San Jose judges?

I don't know why SF vs South Bay would make a difference. It's more like "judges who have SCOTUS connections vs the rest."

Former N.D. Cal. clerk. San Jose is an interesting courthouse because each of the DJs tends to hire for different things. Koh is the most "competitive" in that she requires the best credentials of the three. When I was clerking it was a lot of Stanford/Berkeley top of class folks, and a few came to her after a COA clerkship. I'd put Freeman next. She has a career clerk so only hires two term clerks per year. She tends to require a couple of years of work experience and prefers people who worked in Biglaw in the Bay Area, but has lower grade standards than Koh for applicants from top schools. Lots of Stanford/Berkeley/Yale folks, with a few top-of-class Hastings students. She always has one clerk with a patent litigation background, so there's only one spot per year for non-IP litigators. Then Davila is next (used to have a career clerk who became a state court judge, so I don't know if he hires 2 or 3 term clerks a year). He hires from a much broader range of schools and backgrounds, and seems to have a heavier focus on diversity than the other judges in hiring. In fact, back when Grewal was an MJ in San Jose and before he went to Facebook, I think it was "harder" to get a Grewal clerkship than one with Davila.

All three SJ district judges are lovely people, from my interactions with them, and though Koh's clerks tend to work quite hard, I've heard good things about all three clerkships. I also wouldn't discount clerking for Judge Cousins, I've heard very good things about him as a judge and boss.

[Anonymous User]

How competitive are the San Jose judges?

I don't know why SF vs South Bay would make a difference. It's more like "judges who have SCOTUS connections vs the rest."

Former N.D. Cal. clerk. San Jose is an interesting courthouse because each of the DJs tends to hire for different things. Koh is the most "competitive" in that she requires the best credentials of the three. When I was clerking it was a lot of Stanford/Berkeley top of class folks, and a few came to her after a COA clerkship. I'd put Freeman next. She has a career clerk so only hires two term clerks per year. She tends to require a couple of years of work experience and prefers people who worked in Biglaw in the Bay Area, but has lower grade standards than Koh for applicants from top schools. Lots of Stanford/Berkeley/Yale folks, with a few top-of-class Hastings students. She always has one clerk with a patent litigation background, so there's only one spot per year for non-IP litigators. Then Davila is next (used to have a career clerk who became a state court judge, so I don't know if he hires 2 or 3 term clerks a year). He hires from a much broader range of schools and backgrounds, and seems to have a heavier focus on diversity than the other judges in hiring. In fact, back when Grewal was an MJ in San Jose and before he went to Facebook, I think it was "harder" to get a Grewal clerkship than one with Davila.

All three SJ district judges are lovely people, from my interactions with them, and though Koh's clerks tend to work quite hard, I've heard good things about all three clerkships. I also wouldn't discount clerking for Judge Cousins, I've heard very good things about him as a judge and boss.

Koh also seems to be admired by the law-and-tech crowd, so just an added dimension of competition there.

[Anonymous User]

Our clerkship office can’t sing the praises of Robert Bacharach on the Tenth Circuit enough. Apparently everyone who’s clerked for him says he’s the nicest man on the planet and a fantastic boss. Not tie sensitive but highly grade sensitive.

[Anonymous User]

Our clerkship office can’t sing the praises of Robert Bacharach on the Tenth Circuit enough. Apparently everyone who’s clerked for him says he’s the nicest man on the planet and a fantastic boss. Not tie sensitive but highly grade sensitive.

He is super nice and a great person. Also a big proponent of succinct writing - check out some of his opinions - which a great skill to learn early on.

[Anonymous User]

Any opinions on judges in the Northern and Southern Districts of Iowa, the District of Nebraska, or the District of Minnesota?

[Anonymous User]

Any bad N.D. Tex. judges?

No real horror stories. As to workload, Lindsey and Lynn work clerks pretty hard, as does O'Connor (who hires mostly through fed soc). A bunch of the judges are new, so you won't hear much reliable intel on, say, Starr, Hendrix, Kacsmaryk, Brown, or Pittman---although I've heard anecdotally that Pittman is fine. Fish, Cummings, and McBryde are all great to work for.

Thanks for this. Do you have any specifics on what it's like to work for Godbey or Boyle? Since they've been on the bench for over a decade, I figured there would be some decent information out there. As far as Godbey goes, at least, I wasn't able to turn up much of anything searching on TLS.

I've personally worked with Lynn and Boyle and recommend them highly. As you'd expect, lots of hard work and high expectations but good mentorship both during and after the clerkship. Both of them look out for women and people of color moreso than other ND judges (same is true with Lindsey). I've heard good things about Godbey - recent clerk is a close friend and had a positive experience, and Godbey clerks historically do well advancing on to upper level courts.

[Anonymous User]

Any insight on Third Circuit? Especially the Newark judges.

Current CA3. Chagares is a fantastic boss - true mensch. Matey is interesting -- seems nice, and unusually academic, particularly given his background (Kellogg, AUSA, etc - not a professor like Bibas). If you're interested, read the QI one that came down a few weeks ago.

Seconding re Chagares -- not a CA3 clerk personally, but spent a lot of time with him at an event and he was tremendously nice/engaging.

Bibas is supposed to be brilliant, interested in mentoring, and obsessive about legal writing, but he’s also supposed be one of the most difficult interviews on the federal courts, a tad socially off (as you might expect from someone who went to college at age 15), and demanding.

Anything on Porter, Hardiman, or Fisher?

[Anonymous User]

Anything on Porter, Hardiman, or Fisher?

Hardiman is a super nice guy, very friendly and personable. He used to do pub trivia with his clerks during Philadelphia sittings.

Fisher is a former elected. Seemed nice, with a good management style, but we did not sit with him.

Nothing personal re. Porter.

One CA3 judge who never seems to get mentioned is Judge Roth. She's senior, but very, very active, and seems to cultivate a good chambers environment. Downside: she telecommutes more often than not, so there isn't much face time outside of sittings.