District Court Clerkship after Appellate Clerkship? Forum

[lavarman84]

So you are saying it makes more sense to do only a circuit clerkship?

I would only do it if you have a clear sense of why you will want or need it; you can financially afford to do it; and/or the district judge or district is more competitive than your circuit. Or if you want to goose your (small) odds for scotus.

I find it odd that this ignores the reason most clerks who double choose to do so--trial court clerkships are generally significantly more useful than appellate ones, and doubling gives you both the education of a trial court clerkship and the prestige of an appellate clerkship

I did both, and I'm happy I did. There are a lot of things I learned as a district court clerk that have proven quite valuable for my practice. The same is true of the COA clerkship, but not quite to the same degree. (My practice includes both appellate and trial work.)

[Anonymous User]

So you are saying it makes more sense to do only a circuit clerkship?

I would only do it if you have a clear sense of why you will want or need it; you can financially afford to do it; and/or the district judge or district is more competitive than your circuit. Or if you want to goose your (small) odds for scotus.

I find it odd that this ignores the reason most clerks who double choose to do so--trial court clerkships are generally significantly more useful than appellate ones, and doubling gives you both the education of a trial court clerkship and the prestige of an appellate clerkship

I did both, and I'm happy I did. There are a lot of things I learned as a district court clerk that have proven quite valuable for my practice. The same is true of the COA clerkship, but not quite to the same degree. (My practice includes both appellate and trial work.)

What exactly do you learn in the district court clerkship that is so valuable? I feel like this thread has still failed to answer the original question. I always assumed the main skillset a clerkship helps develop is writing and legal reasoning. What else does a district court clerkship provide? Is it just general familiarity with motions practice and Civ Pro?

[Anonymous User]

Yes, familiarity with motions practice and civ (and crim) pro, especially evidentiary rules, as well as how a trial actually works (lots of logistics you only learn by doing them). You see a lot of this and just get a way better sense of how a case works from beginning to end than doing pieces of the case for one party. And you see how judges approach things, which is incredibly valuable.

I’m not going to claim you could never learn these things by actually litigating, but I think you learn a lot more way faster than you do in a typical entry level job. If you’re going to be (someday) writing (say) motions for summary judgement, it’s really helpful to see both sides write them when you’re not associated with either side, and to see how a judge approaches them. And the sort of outside perspective that chambers has isn’t something you get from litigating yourself.

[lavarman84]

What exactly do you learn in the district court clerkship that is so valuable? I feel like this thread has still failed to answer the original question. I always assumed the main skillset a clerkship helps develop is writing and legal reasoning. What else does a district court clerkship provide? Is it just general familiarity with motions practice and Civ Pro?

Putting aside the research and writing aspects of it because you learn those in COA clerkships, it's about understanding how d. ct. clerks and judges think. If you haven't been there, it's hard to get it. You're working for a person who wants to clear the six-month list and not fall behind on case counts in a job where things move quickly and you have a lot being thrown at you at once. Yes, judges care about coming to the right answer, but they also want to get to that answer in a timely manner and in a way that won't get them overturned.

In practice, that means clerks won't dig as deeply into things as COA clerks and will follow rules from their circuit, even cases that aren't binding (because it's in dicta or an unpublished decision), unless given a compelling reason not to do so. Thus, understanding how d. ct. clerks and judges think gives you a huge leg up when thinking about how to frame your arguments.

It also taught me about the different types of d. ct. judges, which is quite important in my practice. Putting aside ideological differences, it helps to understand what type of judge you're getting. There are the judges who are bold and unafraid to go out on a limb and risk being overturned by the COA. There are judges who are so intent on not getting overturned that they won't take chances. When making strategic decisions about where to file a case, things like that matter.

There are also other benefits, like getting to observe and take part in trials (maybe), managing cases from start to finish, seeing a ton of dispositive motions, understanding the inner workings of the court and knowing whom to ask when you have a question, understanding what things irk clerks/judges and what things are acceptable, etc.

But the biggest value add for me has been understanding how judges and their clerks think. It allows me to think strategically about how to present my arguments, what venue to choose (i.e., judge shopping), and all sorts of other decisions that take part during a case. Of course, I work in the public interest world where I get to make those decisions, something biglaw juniors/mids aren't typically doing.

[Anonymous User]

So you are saying it makes more sense to do only a circuit clerkship?

I would only do it if you have a clear sense of why you will want or need it; you can financially afford to do it; and/or the district judge or district is more competitive than your circuit. Or if you want to goose your (small) odds for scotus.

I find it odd that this ignores the reason most clerks who double choose to do so--trial court clerkships are generally significantly more useful than appellate ones, and doubling gives you both the education of a trial court clerkship and the prestige of an appellate clerkship

I did both, and I'm happy I did. There are a lot of things I learned as a district court clerk that have proven quite valuable for my practice. The same is true of the COA clerkship, but not quite to the same degree. (My practice includes both appellate and trial work.)

What exactly do you learn in the district court clerkship that is so valuable? I feel like this thread has still failed to answer the original question. I always assumed the main skillset a clerkship helps develop is writing and legal reasoning. What else does a district court clerkship provide? Is it just general familiarity with motions practice and Civ Pro?

In addition to the other things mentioned, on a district court, you just do way more opinions than you do on a circuit court. You get way more reps on dispositive motions than you would at a firm because you have a much bigger docket and are given more responsibility.

Also, district courts work with messy, unprocessed records, and handle fact-finding in the first instance (whether for themselves or by managing a jury), which is quite different from circuit courts that largely borrow the court below’s work. And you deal with full cases, not just the appealed parts of appealed cases.

I clerked on both and the experiences really aren’t very similar. Appellate is definitely an easier time for clerks, but just for that reason, it’s less useful.

[Anonymous User]

So you are saying it makes more sense to do only a circuit clerkship?

I would only do it if you have a clear sense of why you will want or need it; you can financially afford to do it; and/or the district judge or district is more competitive than your circuit. Or if you want to goose your (small) odds for scotus.

I find it odd that this ignores the reason most clerks who double choose to do so--trial court clerkships are generally significantly more useful than appellate ones, and doubling gives you both the education of a trial court clerkship and the prestige of an appellate clerkship

I did both, and I'm happy I did. There are a lot of things I learned as a district court clerk that have proven quite valuable for my practice. The same is true of the COA clerkship, but not quite to the same degree. (My practice includes both appellate and trial work.)

What exactly do you learn in the district court clerkship that is so valuable? I feel like this thread has still failed to answer the original question. I always assumed the main skillset a clerkship helps develop is writing and legal reasoning. What else does a district court clerkship provide? Is it just general familiarity with motions practice and Civ Pro?

In addition to the other things mentioned, on a district court, you just do way more opinions than you do on a circuit court. You get way more reps on dispositive motions than you would at a firm because you have a much bigger docket and are given more responsibility.

Also, district courts work with messy, unprocessed records, and handle fact-finding in the first instance (whether for themselves or by managing a jury), which is quite different from circuit courts that largely borrow the court below’s work. And you deal with full cases, not just the appealed parts of appealed cases.

I clerked on both and the experiences really aren’t very similar. Appellate is definitely an easier time for clerks, but just for that reason, it’s less useful.

In my experience, I agree that appellate was easier, although I clerked on a 2/9/DC circuit and in a flyover district. I don't think I went a single case in trial court without feeling like a moron, but after about three months in a circuit I had a pretty good sense of what I was doing.

[Anonymous User]

I clerked for a magistrate judge and a state supreme court judge, and I get the sense that clerking for a district court judge could be extremely difficult, and your experience could vary wildly between pleasure and pain depending on which judge you clerk for. I mean, that's true with every clerkship and every job, but given the horrifying amount of work that has to be done, finding an ideal district court clerkship seems very tough to me, with a high risk of misery. It may not be worth it when you already have the crown jewel of a circuit court clerkship.