clerking boring? Forum

[fats provolone]

wut. you can get daily transcripts in any federal court.

[A. Nony Mouse]

wut. you can get daily transcripts in any federal court.

Of course you can get transcripts, but they're not automatically prepared/issued at the end of the day - you have to request them, and pay for the reporter to get the transcripts issued on a rush basis, if you want that day's hearing the same night (which I've never seen done, honestly). So they're not going to prepared routinely every night. Even if the judge wants the transcript to make a ruling (like during trial - not talking about if they're taking something under advisement and ruling later) they have to get it from the reporter and if it's same day it's probably not going to be an official transcript, just a preliminary one sufficient to rule on.

Unless it's just the Stone Age everywhere I've worked.

[fats provolone]

but they're not even that expensive. what prole litigants aren't getting dailies and real-time

[A. Nony Mouse]

but they're not even that expensive. what prole litigants aren't getting dailies and real-time

Seriously? None that I've ever seen. Such is life outside the glamorous spotlight of biglaw, I guess.

[Anonymous User]

I know this is an old thread, but I thought I would throw this out there and see if anyone had any thoughts. I'm finishing up my first of two COA clerkships (I have a gap between them). I found my clerkship pretty boring, so I'm debating trying transactional work during the gap year. Money and seniority concerns aren't very pertinent to me, and my second judge won't mind either way; I just want to do work I enjoy. Did anybody make that switch and still found transactional work boring, or is biglaw litigating more stimulating (in terms of pace and interaction with others) than clerking?

[Anonymous User]

Litigation is totally different on the other side of the bench. The law clerk's job is almost entirely research and objective writing, either writing memos or writing opinions that address the parties' arguments and describes and applies the law.

Litigation associates do get assigned objective memo work, but it's hardly going to be the only thing you do. Discovery (which you probably have no experience with as a law clerk unless you clerked for a magistrate judge). Depositions. Persuasive briefs. Doc review, if you're unlucky. Not necessarily interesting stuff, but it's a lot different than sitting in chambers churning out bench memos and opinions. There are attorneys who do little besides research and drafting, but they are few and far between (and most of them are appellate lawyers).

Not a transactional attorney but from those I've talked to, it's not actually likely to be a great alternative if the thing you didn't like about clerking was it was the same, rote, repetitive work over and over again. They have that too, only it's contract drafting and due diligence.

[lavarman84]

I found COA clerking to be more boring than D. Ct. clerking. It's slower and more isolated. But it wasn't until the end of my year that I started to get bored of the COA work. I won't comment on transactional work because I have no interest whatsoever in it.

[Anonymous User]

I found COA clerking to be more boring than D. Ct. clerking. It's slower and more isolated. But it wasn't until the end of my year that I started to get bored of the COA work. I won't comment on transactional work because I have no interest whatsoever in it.

I agree. I liked clerking at the district court, but I found COA work to be really boring (I was bored by the halfway point). Even though there were interesting legal issues, slowly churning out bench memos and opinions gets old.

[Anonymous User]

I agree with the above two; my appellate clerking experience was much slower and more boring than my D. Ct. experience. The average district court clerk probably sees a greater number and variety of projects than the average appellate clerk, plus most judges have at least a couple hearings a week in addition to possible trials.

And D. Ct. clerk work is still very ivory tower compared to the actual practice of litigation.

[Anonymous User]

I thought COA clerking was super interesting -- some legal issues repeat, but there was always enough unfamiliar or brand new issues to make it interesting. I guess if you don't like research and writing you might find COA clerking boring, but even then the variety of issues/areas of the law makes the work much more interesting than what my friends at law firms get to do. I am honestly surprised so many people find the work boring....

[lavarman84]

I thought COA clerking was super interesting -- some legal issues repeat, but there was always enough unfamiliar or brand new issues to make it interesting. I guess if you don't like research and writing you might find COA clerking boring, but even then the variety of issues/areas of the law makes the work much more interesting than what my friends at law firms get to do. I am honestly surprised so many people find the work boring....

I clerked on a D. Ct. first. I'm sure that played a role. Was used to a gig that was faster moving and much more social. That isn't to say I didn't enjoy my COA clerkship. I had a great boss, I worked on some interesting cases, and the hours were very reasonable.

[Anonymous User]

I thought COA clerking was super interesting -- some legal issues repeat, but there was always enough unfamiliar or brand new issues to make it interesting. I guess if you don't like research and writing you might find COA clerking boring, but even then the variety of issues/areas of the law makes the work much more interesting than what my friends at law firms get to do. I am honestly surprised so many people find the work boring....

I clerked on a D. Ct. first. I'm sure that played a role. Was used to a gig that was faster moving and much more social. That isn't to say I didn't enjoy my COA clerkship. I had a great boss, I worked on some interesting cases, and the hours were very reasonable.

I agree with lavarman here too. I also clerked on the district court first, so I was used to a faster moving gig/more variety and, honestly, may have gotten some clerking fatigue by the end of two years. Drafting opinions on a variety of issues is good work, but it gets redundant. I also agree that--especially with a good boss/good hours--it's still a great gig. I just was happy to move on at the end of it.

[Anonymous User]

I thought COA clerking was super interesting -- some legal issues repeat, but there was always enough unfamiliar or brand new issues to make it interesting. I guess if you don't like research and writing you might find COA clerking boring, but even then the variety of issues/areas of the law makes the work much more interesting than what my friends at law firms get to do. I am honestly surprised so many people find the work boring....

I clerked for a DJ and at the COA and I also can't believe that anyone ever finds the work boring, especially after just a year or two. If you're bored doing that, I can't imagine how bored you'd be at a firm. That said, some people find work boring if it's insular and doesn't require dealing with people, so I guess I understand how someone could find clerking boring. I'm perfectly fine with spending the day reading and writing with minimal distractions.

The only time I was ever bored was when my judge decided to volunteer us clerks to help with a backlog in pro se/prisoner cases. That was often really repetitive and not challenging at all, though there were some cases where I had no idea what to do because the pleadings were unintelligible, so it required some creative thinking.

[texanslimjim]

I clerked for a DJ and at the COA and I also can't believe that anyone ever finds the work boring, especially after just a year or two. If you're bored doing that, I can't imagine how bored you'd be at a firm. That said, some people find work boring if it's insular and doesn't require dealing with people, so I guess I understand how someone could find clerking boring. I'm perfectly fine with spending the day reading and writing with minimal distractions.

The only time I was ever bored was when my judge decided to volunteer us clerks to help with a backlog in pro se/prisoner cases. That was often really repetitive and not challenging at all, though there were some cases where I had no idea what to do because the pleadings were unintelligible, so it required some creative thinking.

How can you say you can't believe people ever find the work boring, but then admit sometimes you were bored with certain projects?

This is really just a glass half full or empty thing. Pretty much any clerkship will get you a mix of interesting projects where you have to do deep research and thorough thinking to resolve the issues, and projects where the issues are repetitive, the outcome is not in question, and terrible briefing and arguments make you feel like the parties are wasting your and the court's time. Whether you're working on mainly opinions or internal memos might also affect how engaging you think the work is. The exact mixture will vary for every clerk, even those clerking for the same judge at the same time. What mixture amounts to a boring or interesting clerkship is just subjective.

[stoopkid13]

I also wonder whether clerking this term and next term is more "boring" than normal because of the pandemic (no trials, limited interactions with others in the courthouse, etc)

[Anonymous User]

I also wonder whether clerking this term and next term is more "boring" than normal because of the pandemic (no trials, limited interactions with others in the courthouse, etc)

I'm not sure if its more or less boring, but a few people I know who are clerking now are disappointed that they're not getting the kind of experience they hoped for, nor are they getting adequate time with their judge or other clerks in the courthouse. One of the main benefits of a clerkship is the professional relationship you develop with the judge, so not being able to develop that has been a huge letdown for current clerks. Apparently some judges have done a better job of maintaining contact with their clerks via Zoom or phone calls, and others have more or less been silent other than emails.

[Anonymous User]

I also wonder whether clerking this term and next term is more "boring" than normal because of the pandemic (no trials, limited interactions with others in the courthouse, etc)

I'm not sure if its more or less boring, but a few people I know who are clerking now are disappointed that they're not getting the kind of experience they hoped for, nor are they getting adequate time with their judge or other clerks in the courthouse. One of the main benefits of a clerkship is the professional relationship you develop with the judge, so not being able to develop that has been a huge letdown for current clerks. Apparently some judges have done a better job of maintaining contact with their clerks via Zoom or phone calls, and others have more or less been silent other than emails.

I've heard this too. I know someone whose clerkship has turned into doing exclusively COVID-related prisoner litigation.

[GFox345]

I also wonder whether clerking this term and next term is more "boring" than normal because of the pandemic (no trials, limited interactions with others in the courthouse, etc)

I'm not sure if its more or less boring, but a few people I know who are clerking now are disappointed that they're not getting the kind of experience they hoped for, nor are they getting adequate time with their judge or other clerks in the courthouse. One of the main benefits of a clerkship is the professional relationship you develop with the judge, so not being able to develop that has been a huge letdown for current clerks. Apparently some judges have done a better job of maintaining contact with their clerks via Zoom or phone calls, and others have more or less been silent other than emails.

I've heard this too. I know someone whose clerkship has turned into doing exclusively COVID-related prisoner litigation.

Yes, it seems hugely judge-dependent. My judge has daily Zoom video chat calls with all the clerks, and that has really helped with a sense of chambers camaraderie during quarantine.

And, regarding the pandemic's effect on the work, I have about as good a perspective as any clerk, as I did 18 months and had a full year under my belt by March and got to see how the caseload developed for the first six months of the pandemic. Overall, the effect seems minimal, though that may change soon, as I think the average delay between the Notice of Appeal and the case being heard seems to be around 9 months in the Circuit I clerked in. On the bright side, may clerks saw COVID-related appeals that called for fast action, which definitely added some spice vis-a-vis the relatively slow process of preparing for sittings. I assume that the clerks next term will start to see the non-expedited COVID cases start to hit the docket.

[objctnyrhnr]

I did not find fedclerking boring and frankly every reasonably successful litigator I know who fedclerked think extremely highly of the experience, and every reasonably successful litigator I know who did not fedclerk wishes they did.

Really, if you are going the litigation route and you are regularly struggling to get really intellectually invested in the issues you are analyzing/researching/writing/discussing, in my opinion you should be thinking very hard about going the litigation route.

The reason that litigators at higher levels in biglaw are typically happier than their transactional counterparts is because a lot of people really like this stuff.

Personally I like advocacy better than objective analysis and of course money, but otherwise clerking in a way has all the great aspects of elite litigation practice without all of the crappy things about being a junior at an elite litigation practice.

So yeah: if you’re not into clerking, it feels likely that you really will not like being a biglaw junior because the latter additionally entails brutal hours at times, a totem pole of often demanding people above you, as well as doc review and other evidentiary stuff that can actually be quite boring. By contrast, when juniors get the opportunity to dive into an issue and give it a first analysis or give a section of a brief a first draft, that’s often when (I can tell) the best ones feel most intellectually alive.