Harvard Grades 9th Circuit Forum

[Anonymous User]

FWIW I know someone who had/has/will have one of those top tier clerkships and this person had/has absolutely beastly grades. Not saying that this person wouldn't have gotten the clerkship with slightly worse grades, but it definitely doesn't hurt to rack up the DSes. All said though, I think HLS kids need to take a breather. This thread is a reminder why other schools make fun of us.

Edit: I should also add that the one other person I know with very similar grades wasn't able to land a top feeder. Granted, person number two landed still landed a very highly desirable clerkship, but you would not mistake the judge for Kozinski or Fletcher. It just goes to show that even if beastly grades help a helluva lot, they're neither sufficient nor necessary.

[Anonymous User]

FWIW I know someone who had/has/will have one of those top tier clerkships and this person had/has absolutely beastly grades. Not saying that this person wouldn't have gotten the clerkship with slightly worse grades, but it definitely doesn't hurt to rack up the DSes. All said though, I think HLS kids need to take a breather. This thread is a reminder why other schools make fun of us.

Edit: I should also add that the one other person I know with very similar grades wasn't able to land a top feeder. Granted, person number two landed still landed a very highly desirable clerkship, but you would not mistake the judge for Kozinski or Fletcher. It just goes to show that even if beastly grades help a helluva lot, they're neither sufficient nor necessary.

What kind of grades did your friend have?

[Doorkeeper]

Maybe it wasn't in his OSCAR listing and was instead in the list that OCS provided about judge's hiring status. The listing specifically said "several" if I am recalling correctly, hence I'll decline to try and define several. I think that 4-5 DS for every P is deep into magna territory and definitely competitive for feeders. What are you at, specifically?

Eh nowhere near 4-5 DS for every P. More DS than P but barely so it's probably a pipe dream for me. But shit how many kids at HLS really have those kinds of grades? I used to be pretty happy with mine, now I feel pretty dumb.

What the fuck is this bullshit? More DS than P puts you solidly into magna, which is top 10%, and definitely puts you into contention for most feeders. You feel "dumb" being in the top 10% of HARVARD LAW SCHOOL? Jesus Christ.

Also, person on the last page was incorrect about Reinhardt. He cares about grades as much as Fletcher and Kozinski. As others have mentioned, O'Scannlain will dip lower for solid conservative credentials.

[Anonymous User]

Maybe it wasn't in his OSCAR listing and was instead in the list that OCS provided about judge's hiring status. The listing specifically said "several" if I am recalling correctly, hence I'll decline to try and define several. I think that 4-5 DS for every P is deep into magna territory and definitely competitive for feeders. What are you at, specifically?

Eh nowhere near 4-5 DS for every P. More DS than P but barely so it's probably a pipe dream for me. But shit how many kids at HLS really have those kinds of grades? I used to be pretty happy with mine, now I feel pretty dumb.

What the fuck is this bullshit? More DS than P puts you solidly into magna, which is top 10%, and definitely puts you into contention for most feeders. You feel "dumb" being in the top 10% of HARVARD LAW SCHOOL? Jesus Christ.

Also, person on the last page was incorrect about Reinhardt. He cares about grades as much as Fletcher and Kozinski. As others have mentioned, O'Scannlain will dip lower for solid conservative credentials.

I'm not sure that more DS than P puts you "solidly" into magna. If you essentially need just shy of a 4.0, that means you either need all Hs, or an equal number of DS and P, rest Hs, right?

[Anonymous User]

Maybe it wasn't in his OSCAR listing and was instead in the list that OCS provided about judge's hiring status. The listing specifically said "several" if I am recalling correctly, hence I'll decline to try and define several. I think that 4-5 DS for every P is deep into magna territory and definitely competitive for feeders. What are you at, specifically?

Eh nowhere near 4-5 DS for every P. More DS than P but barely so it's probably a pipe dream for me. But shit how many kids at HLS really have those kinds of grades? I used to be pretty happy with mine, now I feel pretty dumb.

What the fuck is this bullshit? More DS than P puts you solidly into magna, which is top 10%, and definitely puts you into contention for most feeders. You feel "dumb" being in the top 10% of HARVARD LAW SCHOOL? Jesus Christ.

Also, person on the last page was incorrect about Reinhardt. He cares about grades as much as Fletcher and Kozinski. As others have mentioned, O'Scannlain will dip lower for solid conservative credentials.

I'm not sure that more DS than P puts you "solidly" into magna. If you essentially need just shy of a 4.0, that means you either need all Hs, or an equal number of DS and P, rest Hs, right?

Think about what you just said. Assuming no LP's (which I think is reasonable to assume if we are talking about magna people), then yeah, all H's or equal DS's to P's means 4.0 which means safely into magna range. If OP has MORE DS's than P's...then yeah, OP is well within magna. Again, this assumes no LP but this is a very safe assumption

[Anonymous User]

Think about what you just said. Assuming no LP's (which I think is reasonable to assume if we are talking about magna people), then yeah, all H's or equal DS's to P's means 4.0 which means safely into magna range. If OP has MORE DS's than P's...then yeah, OP is well within magna. Again, this assumes no LP but this is a very safe assumption

Yeah, I suppose that's fair. Although if we're talking about 1 more DS than P that doesn't seem to be "well within" magna.

[Anonymous User]

Think about what you just said. Assuming no LP's (which I think is reasonable to assume if we are talking about magna people), then yeah, all H's or equal DS's to P's means 4.0 which means safely into magna range. If OP has MORE DS's than P's...then yeah, OP is well within magna. Again, this assumes no LP but this is a very safe assumption

Yeah, I suppose that's fair. Although if we're talking about 1 more DS than P that doesn't seem to be "well within" magna.

You may also be equating GPA range with Magna range. To get summa you need either 4.75 or highest GPA in class. Let's assume someone reaches 4.75, therefore assume magna stretches down to 3.95. It's very possible that the vast majority of the magna grades range from 3.95 to 4.05 and from there only a few magna outliers exist until you reach the class gpa summa leader at 4.75.

So from a numerical gpa standpoint, 4.01 or 4.02 may seem like "barely" into the magna range given that magna could theoretically stretch into 4.6 or even higher, but I reckon that the vast majority of magna people are below 4.1 or at the very least, below 4.2.

[Anonymous User]

Think about what you just said. Assuming no LP's (which I think is reasonable to assume if we are talking about magna people), then yeah, all H's or equal DS's to P's means 4.0 which means safely into magna range. If OP has MORE DS's than P's...then yeah, OP is well within magna. Again, this assumes no LP but this is a very safe assumption

Yeah, I suppose that's fair. Although if we're talking about 1 more DS than P that doesn't seem to be "well within" magna.

You may also be equating GPA range with Magna range. To get summa you need either 4.75 or highest GPA in class. Let's assume someone reaches 4.75, therefore assume magna stretches down to 3.95. It's very possible that the vast majority of the magna grades range from 3.95 to 4.05 and from there only a few magna outliers exist until you reach the class gpa summa leader at 4.75.

So from a numerical gpa standpoint, 4.01 or 4.02 may seem like "barely" into the magna range given that magna could theoretically stretch into 4.6 or even higher, but I reckon that the vast majority of magna people are below 4.1 or at the very least, below 4.2.

Ah okay, that makes a lot of sense. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

[Anonymous User]

Think about what you just said. Assuming no LP's (which I think is reasonable to assume if we are talking about magna people), then yeah, all H's or equal DS's to P's means 4.0 which means safely into magna range. If OP has MORE DS's than P's...then yeah, OP is well within magna. Again, this assumes no LP but this is a very safe assumption

Yeah, I suppose that's fair. Although if we're talking about 1 more DS than P that doesn't seem to be "well within" magna.

You may also be equating GPA range with Magna range. To get summa you need either 4.75 or highest GPA in class. Let's assume someone reaches 4.75, therefore assume magna stretches down to 3.95. It's very possible that the vast majority of the magna grades range from 3.95 to 4.05 and from there only a few magna outliers exist until you reach the class gpa summa leader at 4.75.

So from a numerical gpa standpoint, 4.01 or 4.02 may seem like "barely" into the magna range given that magna could theoretically stretch into 4.6 or even higher, but I reckon that the vast majority of magna people are below 4.1 or at the very least, below 4.2.

This is why, as a non-HLS grad clerk, I hate HLS's grading system... It's very hard to get a sense of someone's rank (without asking an HLS grad). Indeed, it's almost as confusing as UChi's grading system.

[Anonymous User]

Think about what you just said. Assuming no LP's (which I think is reasonable to assume if we are talking about magna people), then yeah, all H's or equal DS's to P's means 4.0 which means safely into magna range. If OP has MORE DS's than P's...then yeah, OP is well within magna. Again, this assumes no LP but this is a very safe assumption

Yeah, I suppose that's fair. Although if we're talking about 1 more DS than P that doesn't seem to be "well within" magna.

You may also be equating GPA range with Magna range. To get summa you need either 4.75 or highest GPA in class. Let's assume someone reaches 4.75, therefore assume magna stretches down to 3.95. It's very possible that the vast majority of the magna grades range from 3.95 to 4.05 and from there only a few magna outliers exist until you reach the class gpa summa leader at 4.75.

So from a numerical gpa standpoint, 4.01 or 4.02 may seem like "barely" into the magna range given that magna could theoretically stretch into 4.6 or even higher, but I reckon that the vast majority of magna people are below 4.1 or at the very least, below 4.2.

This is why, as a non-HLS grad clerk, I hate HLS's grading system... It's very hard to get a sense of someone's rank (without asking an HLS grad). Indeed, it's almost as confusing as UChi's grading system.

To be fair, even HLS students and graduates don't fully understand it either.

[Anonymous User]

To be fair, even HLS students and graduates don't lawyers don'tfully understand it either.

[Anonymous User]

oops, double post

[apparentlynew]

This is why, as a non-HLS grad clerk, I hate HLS's grading system... It's very hard to get a sense of someone's rank (without asking an HLS grad). Indeed, it's almost as confusing as UChi's grading system.

As someone on this message board once remarked, mission accomplished.

[Cicero76]

This is why, as a non-HLS grad clerk, I hate HLS's grading system... It's very hard to get a sense of someone's rank (without asking an HLS grad). Indeed, it's almost as confusing as UChi's grading system.

As someone on this message board once remarked, mission accomplished.

Out of curiosity, what does that make Yale's grading system? Utterly nonsensical, or do you have a decent idea of what you're looking for in terms of H's when you see a Yale transcript in your chambers?

[Anonymous User]

By the way, hardly anyone ever reaches the 4.75 mark. At least under the old grading system, when summa was reserved only for those who got a 4.75, the summa distinction was very rare. Some people might get close to that mark, but I suspect it's correct that a bulk of the magna grads fall under the 4.1 range. If it's probably a easier to get mostly Hs than mostly Hs with several DSs, there are sure to be a lot of people with mostly Hs.

[Anonymous User]

worth updating with j-term grades?

[Anonymous User]

I think people here are overestimating, maybe greatly overestimating, grades at this school. I've heard that having a 4.0+ (straight Hs or equal number of DS grades and P grades) after 1L gives you a decent shot at being top 2 in your section (aka top 14 in the 1L class), though of course you would be out of luck if the top 2 GPAs in the 1L class happen to be in your section. I think there are very few people who have many more DS grades than H grades as a 2L. I think it's very likely true that within magna (top 10% after 3L), the vast majority have around 4.0.

[Anonymous User]

How many H's/DS's do you need for a Kozinski or O'Scannlain?

I don't know about those two, but for my judge anything more than one P (with at least a couple DS's) after three semesters and you are out of the running. Maybe two P's if the majority of your other grades are DS.

Yeah, what kind of level judge is this, Kozinski/O'Scannlain level? If I had to guess, I'd say Kozinski/O'Scannlain require several more DSs than Ps, but no more than 2 Ps. So, e.g., if you have 1 P, then you need 4-5 DSs. If 2Ps, 6-7 DSs. That's just my estimate. I'm not a clerk though, just a current HLS student guessing at the grade spread of people who got top feeders last cycle.

False, very false.

[Anonymous User]

How many H's/DS's do you need for a Kozinski or O'Scannlain?

I don't know about those two, but for my judge anything more than one P (with at least a couple DS's) after three semesters and you are out of the running. Maybe two P's if the majority of your other grades are DS.

Yeah, what kind of level judge is this, Kozinski/O'Scannlain level? If I had to guess, I'd say Kozinski/O'Scannlain require several more DSs than Ps, but no more than 2 Ps. So, e.g., if you have 1 P, then you need 4-5 DSs. If 2Ps, 6-7 DSs. That's just my estimate. I'm not a clerk though, just a current HLS student guessing at the grade spread of people who got top feeders last cycle.

False, very false.

Can you elaborate?

[justinp]

How many H's/DS's do you need for a Kozinski or O'Scannlain?

I don't know about those two, but for my judge anything more than one P (with at least a couple DS's) after three semesters and you are out of the running. Maybe two P's if the majority of your other grades are DS.

Yeah, what kind of level judge is this, Kozinski/O'Scannlain level? If I had to guess, I'd say Kozinski/O'Scannlain require several more DSs than Ps, but no more than 2 Ps. So, e.g., if you have 1 P, then you need 4-5 DSs. If 2Ps, 6-7 DSs. That's just my estimate. I'm not a clerk though, just a current HLS student guessing at the grade spread of people who got top feeders last cycle.

False, very false.

Was this meant to be in response to a different post? Because the below post strikes me as pretty definitely wrong, but the above post re: Kozinski/O'Scannlain grades strikes me as basically in the ballpark.

I think people here are overestimating, maybe greatly overestimating, grades at this school. I've heard that having a 4.0+ (straight Hs or equal number of DS grades and P grades) after 1L gives you a decent shot at being top 2 in your section (aka top 14 in the 1L class), though of course you would be out of luck if the top 2 GPAs in the 1L class happen to be in your section. I think there are very few people who have many more DS grades than H grades as a 2L. I think it's very likely true that within magna (top 10% after 3L), the vast majority have around 4.0.

[Anonymous User]

I think people here are overestimating, maybe greatly overestimating, grades at this school. I've heard that having a 4.0+ (straight Hs or equal number of DS grades and P grades) after 1L gives you a decent shot at being top 2 in your section (aka top 14 in the 1L class), though of course you would be out of luck if the top 2 GPAs in the 1L class happen to be in your section. I think there are very few people who have many more DS grades than H grades as a 2L. I think it's very likely true that within magna (top 10% after 3L), the vast majority have around 4.0.

From a statistical standpoint, this is very wrong.

It's pretty well known that to get magna you need around a 4.0. 10% of the class gets magna so roughly that will mean 55 out of a class of 550 will have gpa's at or above 4.0.

We have 7 sections, if a 4.0 is enough to get you top 2 in the section (or close to it) then that means there would be only 14 (the only possibility is if literally all the magnas are sitting at a 4.0 or close to it, but this strikes me as unlikely) magnas. But that clearly isn't right since there needs to be 55 magnas..

a 4.0 is enough to get you very high in your section in all likelihood, but the section would need to be quite weak if it's enough for you to make top 2

[Anonymous User]

FWIW, I know someone who clerked for O'Scannlain from MVP who didn't even graduate in the top 10%. I doubt he would have a higher bar for HLS than MVP.

[justinp]

FWIW, I know someone who clerked for O'Scannlain from MVP who didn't even graduate in the top 10%. I doubt he would have a higher bar for HLS than MVP.

Eh, grades @ graduation aren't necessarily a strong indicator of where the person was in the class at the point they got hired. Could've just been someone who busted his/her ass for 3 semesters then checked out.

[Doorkeeper]

FWIW, I know someone who clerked for O'Scannlain from MVP who didn't even graduate in the top 10%. I doubt he would have a higher bar for HLS than MVP.

Eh, grades @ graduation aren't necessarily a strong indicator of where the person was in the class at the point they got hired. Could've just been someone who busted his/her ass for 3 semesters then checked out.

Putting O'Scannlain and Kozinski in the same category when it comes to grades is foolhardy. O'Scannlain is well known for dipping down in grades if one has the right "extracurriculars", while Kozinski is similar to Fletcher and Reinhardt in his focus on grades.

[justinp]

FWIW, I know someone who clerked for O'Scannlain from MVP who didn't even graduate in the top 10%. I doubt he would have a higher bar for HLS than MVP.

Eh, grades @ graduation aren't necessarily a strong indicator of where the person was in the class at the point they got hired. Could've just been someone who busted his/her ass for 3 semesters then checked out.

Putting O'Scannlain and Kozinski in the same category when it comes to grades is foolhardy. O'Scannlain is well known for dipping down in grades if one has the right "extracurriculars", while Kozinski is similar to Fletcher and Reinhardt in his focus on grades.

DOWNRIGHT FOOLHARDY I TELL YOU.