Clerks Taking Questions Forum

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[Anonymous User]

As long as you're doing chances.....mind chancing me?

GULC
Grades: ~ top 5% (a bunch of A+, which are still 4.0 here but look pretty on a transcript)
Journal: Secondary (no editor board)
LORs: 1 prof who really likes me + will make calls for me, 1 prof who will write a pretty good letter, and 1 from a V10 Partner
WE: Interesting, but not "prestigious: it just stands out on a resume (basically every interview I've had was almost exclusively about this job, since it's so rare for law students)

I'm shooting for District Court.

That's a very solid app, although the lack of LR hurts. Even moreso if you're an xfer, since everyone knows it's easier to dominate 2L year than 1L.

How broadly will you be applying? Assuming you look far and wide, I would say you will almost certainly get some interviews. Your WE should help during those interviews, but as many people found out last cycle, even a few interviews isn't enough to guarantee you'll get an offer.

Thanks. I didn't transfer in, fortunately.

I'll be applying relatively broadly. I'm somewhat limited to major cities, but I have VERY strong ties to a smaller secondary market that doesn't have any T30 or above law schools in the area. I'm guessing this is where I'll be able to land a clerkship. Actually, I'll just PM you the city.

I should clarify. In general, the bolded part of the latter statement holds true. But when someone's 2L lineup consists almost exclusively of large, substantive, and likely curved classes, the presumption that 1L is more difficult (GPA-wise) becomes considerably less powerful. The person I was responding to with the first quoted bit had done just that, at least for his/her fall term.

I have entirely large, substantive and 1L-curved classes for 2L as well.

[Anonymous User]

I have a question, and if you could, can you please chance me as well?

How does one know/find out if a judge hires on or off plan? Is this information one can only get from one's clerkship office or professors? Is it simply common knowledge I'm unaware of?

As for my stats:

I did 1L at a UT/UCLA/Vandy/USC. Was Top 5-10% of my class when I left.
I transferred to a CCN, am probably around Top 10% of my class after one semester. I'm on a secondary journal.

I would love District of New Jersey, Eastern District of PA, District of Maryland, or Eastern District of New York.

Are my chances okay?

[Anonymous User]

Do clerks know anything about the strange honors systems at schools that don't give gpas or class rankings? For example, I'm at columbia. Would anyone know the difference between a stone and a kent scholar? Problem is that these are amorphous / complicated terms (not like a clear top 10% distinction, for example), so I wonder how much explanation I ought to give--especially considering my transcript is attached.

Needless to say, I don't trust our clerkship office enough to rely solely on their opinion . . .

[twistedwrister]

Non-feeder 2 and 9 might be a very outside chance, but I wouldn't bank on it.

Who are the feeder judges on the 2d?

OP, feel free to disagree, but 2d Cir. feeders include:

Calabresi
Katzmann
Leval
Cabranes
Lynch (up and coming)

[Verity]

I just noticed this thread after creating another one asking this question:

My old roommate is a 2L at a T10, and made top 10% the first year. But, she was also a splitter before LS (174/2.4) and went to a large public school. Will her poor undergrad performance be held against her? If so, to what degree? She wants a federal judicial clerkship, maybe even SCOTUS.




Maybe you can provide some insight.

[minuit]

Have you met a good number of T20-25 graduates who are clerking for CoA or other pretigious positions? Or does T14 really dominate the market?

[Anonymous User]

As an IP guy, I'm thinking of aiming for a patent-heavy district court or the Federal Circuit. Do you know how competitive the Federal Circuit is relative to the other CoAs?

I don't have too much to contribute here, but I externed for a judge who sat by designation on the Fed. Cir. and we worked very closely with a bunch of the clerks on the different panels. Seemed like about 2/3 of them were very IP intensive, and the others were just more typical clerks (Fed. Cir. is also big draw for those interested in Int'l commercial law stuff like WTO appeals, Fed agency law, etc.).

A number of the IP type background clerks I remember talking to had advanced degrees in and/or work experience in EE, CS, etc. Didn't seem like a prerequisite, but I'm sure it helped. At least a couple of them had worked as IP associates at big firms for a couple of years as well before clerking.

[Anonymous User]

Have you met a good number of T20-25 graduates who are clerking for CoA or other pretigious positions? Or does T14 really dominate the market?

Mostly T14, but there are a handful from other schools.

Can you elaborate on this? Just in terms of general distribution of schools. At what range of school would you be surprised to see somebody as a COA clerk? How important are alumni connections? Probably more important the lower down the school rankings you go?

While I'm here, what is the probability that my application would stand out?

T50, part time student working full time in a management capacity for a F100 compnay, easily above top 10% cutoff (possibly top 3 overall), URM. Likely on LR after this spring.

[Anonymous User]

Any idea on how transfers that were T1% at a T30 who transfer to HYS do in in the clerkship process? Information is difficult to track down....

[Tangerine Gleam]

Thanks for taking the time to create this very helpful thread!

I've got some simple questions, some of which you may not feel comfortable answering:

1) How many hours/week do you spend working, on average? Do you work weekends often?
2) How much do you get paid? Or, if you'd prefer, what's the range for payment for CoA and District Court clerkships? I truly have no clue.
3) What are you planning/hoping to do after completing your clerkship?

[Anonymous User]

YLS.
Near even spread of Hs and Ps.
No Law Journal membership, but secondary journal.
No publications yet, but working on it.

Any chance at the less popular circuits (6th, 8th, 10th, 11th, etc)? Mainly interested in the 11th.

Thank you so much for your very valuable insight.

[TLSNYC]

Thanks for taking on so many questions! I know you mentioned that the T14 is a fairly respected distinction among your judge and many others. How do judges compare students applying from schools within the T14? Do the HYS, CCN, MVP, DNCG tiers hold or is it all the same between them? Or do certain schools exceed their tier in rep?

[trudat15]

tagging
Thanks GTL

[AcesandEights]

Any idea on how transfers that were T1% at a T30 who transfer to HYS do in in the clerkship process? Information is difficult to track down....

My experience is off on both of your data points, but maybe it'll help. I'm a transfer from a mid-range T2 to T10, and am currently doing a COA clerkship. When I applied on plan, I was top one percent with secondary journal ed. board, and got interview calls with judges throughout 2/7/9. Best thing a transfer can do is hit the ground running trying to build faculty relationships at the new school. I had an amazing mentor from my old school who knew that one of the reasons I transferred was to clerk and that was one piece of advice he kept stressing. It was solid advice: my first term, I took two doctrinal classes, one class with a hefty writing requirement, and one seminar in an area of law that I love. The hefty writing requirement turned into my writing sample and a publication, and the seminar prof became one of my two best recommendations.

[Ialdabaoth]

Tag.

Thanks for your time!

[Anonymous User]

What does it take to get CoA (anywhere) without LR at CCN? Top 5%, top 10%? A prof who loves you? Publications? Obviously, grades, recs, publications, etc. are all important, but any idea of what will get your app pulled w/o the LR credential, and how you can turn that into an interview?

[Anonymous User]

School: Vandy/UCLA/UT
Grades: Top ~2%
Journal: LR (waiting to find out if I get on the editorial board)
LORs: Should have at least 2 excellent ones from well-known profs I've worked for, and 2 decent ones
WE: Pre-LS non-prestigious interesting stuff, 1L Federal District Externship, 2L Biglaw
Publications: Hopefully will have a Comment/Note scheduled for publishing by summer

Chances at 2d/7th/9th/DC Circuits?

[Anonymous User]

Thank you for chancing us all!

School: T10
Rank: 5% (but am just a 1L so I need to maintain.)
Recs: Tenured professor (former 90's SCOTUS/CoA clerk) has offered to write letters and make phone calls. Need to find two more good recs over the next 3 semesters.

I do not know about Law Review yet. I of course really hope to make it but it is write-on, not grade based. If I don't make LR, how badly will that hurt my chances?

[Anonymous User]

Thank you for chancing us all!

School: T10
Rank: 5% (but am just a 1L so I need to maintain.)
Recs: Tenured professor (former 90's SCOTUS/CoA clerk) has offered to write letters and make phone calls. Need to find two more good recs over the next 3 semesters.

I do not know about Law Review yet. I of course really hope to make it but it is write-on, not grade based. If I don't make LR, how badly will that hurt my chances?

How, after one semester, do you already have a professor who said he would call on your behalf?

[twistedwrister]

What does it take to get CoA (anywhere) without LR at CCN? Top 5%, top 10%? A prof who loves you? Publications? Obviously, grades, recs, publications, etc. are all important, but any idea of what will get your app pulled w/o the LR credential, and how you can turn that into an interview?

I'm only one data point, but I'm a 3L at NYU that recently landed a 2/9/DC semi-feeder CoA clerkship w/o law review (graded-on, but didn't do it for various reasons). I was top 2-3%, published, and had a prof (or two) who loved me.

[Anonymous User]

What does it take to get CoA (anywhere) without LR at CCN? Top 5%, top 10%? A prof who loves you? Publications? Obviously, grades, recs, publications, etc. are all important, but any idea of what will get your app pulled w/o the LR credential, and how you can turn that into an interview?

I'm only one data point, but I'm a 3L at NYU that recently landed a 2/9/DC semi-feeder CoA clerkship w/o law review (graded-on, but didn't do it for various reasons). I was top 2-3%, published, and had a prof (or two) who loved me.

On that note, how did you (and anyone else who cares to comment) build relationships with professors to get great recs? I have a couple professors who I'm sure will write good recs because they know me (I went to office hours or RA'd) and did well in the class, but I'm not sure how to transform that into a great rec or a phone call. That is, how do I get something more than "h/she's a pleasant and inquisitive person who did really well in my class"--how do you get a professor to "love you" when they're often just awkward to talk with?

[twistedwrister]

What does it take to get CoA (anywhere) without LR at CCN? Top 5%, top 10%? A prof who loves you? Publications? Obviously, grades, recs, publications, etc. are all important, but any idea of what will get your app pulled w/o the LR credential, and how you can turn that into an interview?

I'm only one data point, but I'm a 3L at NYU that recently landed a 2/9/DC semi-feeder CoA clerkship w/o law review (graded-on, but didn't do it for various reasons). I was top 2-3%, published, and had a prof (or two) who loved me.

On that note, how did you (and anyone else who cares to comment) build relationships with professors to get great recs. I have a couple professors who I'm sure will write good recs because they know me (I went to office hours or RA'd) and did well in the class, but I'm not sure how to transform that into a great rec or a phone call? That is, how do I get something more than "h/she's a pleasant and inquisitive person who did really well in my class"--how do you get a professor to "love you" when they're often just awkward to talk with?

After a prof agrees to write you a rec, I would consider sending him/her an e-mail containing personal facts, achievements, goals, etc., that aren't immediately apparent from your resume/transcript. The best letters are personal, so you want the prof to know you as well as possible. Other than that, you've done all you can. You need a prof to say "Jane Doe is the best student I've had this year / in years / ever" or "You hired Mr. X five years ago, and Jane is even better than him." Unless you do more substantive work for the prof, or kill another one of his classes, he either has this opinion of you or he doesn't.

[twistedwrister]

Quick question. Are clerks competitive with their co-clerks? I'm thinking specifically of clerks for super-feeders like Garland, Wilkinson, etc., because all of their clerks are likely shooting for SCOTUS. Even Garland doesn't send every clerk to the Court...

[Anonymous User]

Thank you for chancing us all!

School: T10
Rank: 5% (but am just a 1L so I need to maintain.)
Recs: Tenured professor (former 90's SCOTUS/CoA clerk) has offered to write letters and make phone calls. Need to find two more good recs over the next 3 semesters.

I do not know about Law Review yet. I of course really hope to make it but it is write-on, not grade based. If I don't make LR, how badly will that hurt my chances?

How, after one semester, do you already have a professor who said he would call on your behalf?

I was very surprised myself, but he offered without my even asking. I'm sure it had something to do with the fact that I got an A on his exam. But I went to him this week to ask for clerkship planning advice (as I knew he had been a SCOTUS clerk), and towards the end of the conversation he just straight-up said "When you decide what judges you're applying for next year, let me know so that we can talk about it more and I can make phone calls on your behalf. If you'd like me to."