Fall 2021 Post-Clerkship Hiring Forum

[Anonymous User]

how long between your Selendy callback and offer, if you don't mind me asking?

[Anonymous User]

Any NYC biglaw movement?

[Anonymous User]

Any big law Orange County movement for clerks? (GDC, LW, SMRH, etc).

[Anonymous User]

After months of applying and several failed screeners at boutiques, my one CB turned into an offer! East-coast non-feeder COA clerk. Offer is from V40 firm in a mid-major market (think Philly or Boston) with $50k clerkship bonus. The jobs are out there folks, it just may be a case of waiting patiently and setting sights a bit below the likes of Susman/Kellogg. Best of luck!

[Anonymous User]

anyone heard anything from the DC biglaw, like Wilmer, Hogan, A&P, Jenner? the silence is excruciating lol

Can confirm that Williams & Connolly has scheduled interviews, but idk about the firms you listed.

W&C App -> Interview(s) -> Offer timeline?

[Anonymous User]

Are people applying broadly in the V100? Or are most just targeting the top boutique firms/big law firms that are known for their interest in hiring law clerks (Covington/Jones Day/Jenner/etc.)? Also, what are people's plans if they're no offered? (Trying to get a better understanding if most clerks are just going to go back to the law firm that they summered at but didn't wholly love, or if people are facing the risk of unemployment post-clerkship.)

[Anonymous User]

anyone heard anything from the DC biglaw, like Wilmer, Hogan, A&P, Jenner? the silence is excruciating lol

Can confirm that Williams & Connolly has scheduled interviews, but idk about the firms you listed.

W&C App -> Interview(s) -> Offer timeline?

A year ago, I got an interview about six weeks after my application and an offer about two weeks after my interview.

[Anonymous User]

anyone heard anything from the DC biglaw, like Wilmer, Hogan, A&P, Jenner? the silence is excruciating lol

Can confirm that Williams & Connolly has scheduled interviews, but idk about the firms you listed.

W&C App -> Interview(s) -> Offer timeline?

It was about 8 weeks from app to interview invite, but I cancelled the interview after deciding to return to my pre-clerkship firm.

[Anonymous User]

anyone heard anything from the DC biglaw, like Wilmer, Hogan, A&P, Jenner? the silence is excruciating lol

Can confirm that Williams & Connolly has scheduled interviews, but idk about the firms you listed.

W&C App -> Interview(s) -> Offer timeline?

It was about 8 weeks from app to interview invite, but I cancelled the interview after deciding to return to my pre-clerkship firm.

Out of curiosity, what made you decide to return rather than take a shot at W&C?

[Anonymous User]

Speaking of mass mailing - did I miss any major lit boutiques in NY?

Susman
Molo
Morvillo
Lankler Siffert
Kaplan Hecker
Reichman
Kobre & Kim
Wilkinson Stekloff

Not that I know much about either firm, but Selendy & Gay and Holwell Shuster both come to mind.

Re/these boutiques—how do you differentiate among them? Should you just be choosing based on the people, or are there any that are especially well-known for giving better experiences or being less sweatshoppy? Right now most I’ve heard about these firms is Susman for being Susman, Kaplan because of Roberta Kaplan, and Wilkinson because of Beth Wilkinson

I think some of the firms are pretty different in terms of what cases they do. Susman does high stakes civil litigation, including P-side, no criminal work. Wilkinson also does high stakes trials, more of a DC firm. Kaplan and Selendy do both P-side and defense, theoretically a bit more of a public interest bent? Lankler/Morvillo are most well known for white collar work, seem like good places to go if you want to be an AUSA.

There are a couple ways to distinguish between these firms, although how well you get along with the people is probably the most important.

Compensation
Susman, Molo, Selendy, Wilkinson, and Reichman all offer above-market compensation. Maybe a few others do as well. Some of these firms are at market, many are below market.

Selectivity
Susman, Molo, and Wilkinson are all very picky and basically hire clerks exclusively. Lankler also mostly hires clerks but is less picky, Reichman is also very picky.

White Collar
Some of these firms are very prestigious for their white collar work, especially Lankler Siffert and Morvillo. Some firms have a serious white collar practice but don't have the same reputation for producing AUSAs, like Molo or Kaplan Hecker. Some have no white collar work at all, like Susman.

Diversity of Work
There are a few ways to think about what kind of work you'll be doing: plaintiff versus defense work, trial versus appellate work, and civil versus criminal work. And there there is the diversity of cases within these categories. Some of these firms work on a very narrow kind of case. Susman does mostly plaintiff's-side cases of all kinds, mostly trial work, no real white collar but a good diversity of cases within the civil world. Molo has plaintiff's-side and defense-side work on the trial level, a ton of appellate work from Jeff Lamken, and a pretty wide diversity of types of civil cases and white collar work. Selendy does almost exclusively cases arising from financial products, both defense side and plaintiff's side, and will have some appellate work now that Caitlin Halligan has joined. Not sure about WIlkinson, but mostly trial work from what I understand. Lankler and Morvillo are mostly criminal work and investigations. Reichman is almost entirely IP trial work.

are these firms generally as selective as kellogg/williams & connolly, or less so? wondering where i'd have a better chance

[Anonymous User]

Susman, MoloLamken, Wilkinson are comparable to Kellogg in selectivity and more selective than W&C

[Anonymous User]

Susman, MoloLamken, Wilkinson are comparable to Kellogg in selectivity and more selective than W&C

I disagree. They are more selective in the sense that they care more about pedigree and soft factors. They are less selective in that they care less about grades - at least in extending callback invitations.

[Anonymous User]

Do we think the NYC lit boutique market is still fairly quiet/is it still early in the hiring season? Curious how much movement people are seeing or if things are generally slow.

[Anonymous User]

Susman, MoloLamken, Wilkinson are comparable to Kellogg in selectivity and more selective than W&C

I disagree. They are more selective in the sense that they care more about pedigree and soft factors. They are less selective in that they care less about grades - at least in extending callback invitations.

I mean maybe, I only have one person's experience and network, but I would be quite surprised, W&C has plenty of lawyers who only did district court clerkships and wasn't really more selective than other top DC firms like Covington, WilmerHale, Latham, etc. at my school, whereas elite smaller boutiques virtually exclusively hire (usually fairly elite) COA clerks. Susman's GPA average was like a good part of a standard deviation above W&C's at OCI.

I also don't know that I agree the boutiques are more "pedigree-sensitive"--Susman is filled with Texans, Wilkinson is very diverse, W&C is stereotypically filled with southern WASPs.

[Anonymous User]

While we are on the subject, does anyone have updated info on W&C’s pay scale and clerkship bonuses?

[Anonymous User]

I find it mildly ridiculous that this many people are so interested in Susman, W&C, Molo, and Kellogg, and that conversation about these firms is dominating this thread. They will probably extend a total of like 8-10 offers to current clerks, to say nothing of the selectivity those firms can afford in this "buyer's market." If you have anything less than SCOTUS-clerk-level credentials and want to be employed in 6-12 months, I strongly advise exploring other options.

I just finished up my cycle and it fucking sucked: the elite boutiques I applied to all played games with screeners and timing promises. Some top-level big firms that come to mind that have done very well during COVID, and that I know are (or were recently) hiring clerks: Kirkland, Latham, Ropes, Morgan Lewis, K&S, MoFo, Cooley. The only firm that came through for me promptly and with a market clerkship bonus offer is listed there.

[Anonymous User]

I find it mildly ridiculous that this many people are so interested in Susman, W&C, Molo, and Kellogg, and that conversation about these firms is dominating this thread. They will probably extend a total of like 8-10 offers to current clerks, to say nothing of the selectivity those firms can afford in this "buyer's market." If you have anything less than SCOTUS-clerk-level credentials and want to be employed in 6-12 months, I strongly advise exploring other options.

I just finished up my cycle and it fucking sucked: the elite boutiques I applied to all played games with screeners and timing promises. Some top-level big firms that come to mind that have done very well during COVID, and that I know are (or were recently) hiring clerks: Kirkland, Latham, Ropes, Morgan Lewis, K&S, MoFo, Cooley. The only firm that came through for me promptly and with a market clerkship bonus offer is listed there.

Are you saying that in your view taking a job at one of Susman/W&C/etc. is a bad idea, or that pursuing employment there is futile because of their selectivity? From my own experience and anecdotally from colleagues and friends, I know of W&C, Molo, and Susman, for sure, having multiple interviews out; I guess I'm wondering if you're saying that these places dramatically over-interview and hire far fewer than they ask in, or if you think that there's some other reason why Susman/W&C etc. are not good choices.

Also, FWIW, I've heard radio silence from one of the biglaw firms you mentioned that have come through for you, and have done much better with what I suppose you mean by "elite" boutiques, so I'm not sure your experience is true for everyone.

[Anonymous User]

Are you saying that in your view taking a job at one of Susman/W&C/etc. is a bad idea, or that pursuing employment there is futile because of their selectivity?

I have no basis to say that working there is bad. I'm strictly speaking about the job prospects--about the number of offers extended. Especially given the general bloodbath of this year's clerkship hiring, it's bizarre to have so much conversation focused on such unlikely and selective sources of employment.

Also, FWIW, I've heard radio silence from one of the biglaw firms you mentioned that have come through for you, and have done much better with what I suppose you mean by "elite" boutiques, so I'm not sure your experience is true for everyone.

Of course, YMMV. How long has it been on your "silence," and was it post-CB or just on the papers? One thing that seems true across the board is that offer times are longer, probably because of when "OCI" was scheduled this year. If you've interviewed in the last few weeks, I wouldn't write off getting an offer from the "silent" firm: mine took 2 weeks post-CB. During the interim, I ended up sending in materials and emailing elsewhere when, as it turns out, I didn't need to.

[Anonymous User]

anyone heard anything from the DC biglaw, like Wilmer, Hogan, A&P, Jenner? the silence is excruciating lol

Gibson Dunn DC is interviewing.

[Anonymous User]

I’m sure that a lot of attention to boutiques is that most people competitive for them already have offers from top biglaw firms from 2L and are looking mostly to “trade up,” not to move sideways from Latham to Kirkland or something. Like I doubt anyone seriously competitive for Susman is also seriously interested in Morgan Lewis.

[Anonymous User]

I just finished up my cycle and it fucking sucked: the elite boutiques I applied to all played games with screeners and timing promises. Some top-level big firms that come to mind that have done very well during COVID, and that I know are (or were recently) hiring clerks: Kirkland, Latham, Ropes, Morgan Lewis, K&S, MoFo, Cooley.

My experience has been similar RE: boutiques.

Also, Morgan Lewis, MoFo, and Cooley aren't advertising post-clerkship positions. Did you send your materials directly to a recruiting contact?

[Anonymous User]

I’m sure that a lot of attention to boutiques is that most people competitive for them already have offers from top biglaw firms from 2L and are looking mostly to “trade up,” not to move sideways from Latham to Kirkland or something. Like I doubt anyone seriously competitive for Susman is also seriously interested in Morgan Lewis.

Sure, a certain slice of people may have a legitimate interest in Susman over other larger firms that are hiring clerks, even assuming they're legitimately competitive for the former. But the idea is that the slice is vanishingly small--and the actual number of offers to be made by those elite boutiques smaller still--relative to the number of current clerks looking for jobs in this market and who might read or contribute to this thread.

Also, Morgan Lewis, MoFo, and Cooley aren't advertising post-clerkship positions. Did you send your materials directly to a recruiting contact?

For ML, I direct mailed and had a classmate connection. For MoFo and Cooley, I used their online portals to submit for mid-level Lit Associate positions. (For example, Cooley posted a week ago on their portal for a D.C. Lit Associate with 2-3 years experience.)

[Anonymous User]

I find it mildly ridiculous that this many people are so interested in Susman, W&C, Molo, and Kellogg, and that conversation about these firms is dominating this thread. They will probably extend a total of like 8-10 offers to current clerks, to say nothing of the selectivity those firms can afford in this "buyer's market." If you have anything less than SCOTUS-clerk-level credentials and want to be employed in 6-12 months, I strongly advise exploring other options.

I just finished up my cycle and it fucking sucked: the elite boutiques I applied to all played games with screeners and timing promises. Some top-level big firms that come to mind that have done very well during COVID, and that I know are (or were recently) hiring clerks: Kirkland, Latham, Ropes, Morgan Lewis, K&S, MoFo, Cooley. The only firm that came through for me promptly and with a market clerkship bonus offer is listed there.

Would you mind explaining what you mean by "played games with screeners and timing promises"? I'm in the middle of the interviewing process with a number of boutiques, so I'm just trying to figure out if I am getting "played" in the way you describe.

[Anonymous User]

Susman, MoloLamken, Wilkinson are comparable to Kellogg in selectivity and more selective than W&C

I'd say, for post-clerkship hiring, the selectivity is roughly Susman/Kellogg > W&C > Molo. Wilkinson is a wild card right now because it's undergoing change and it may not be hiring as much. A lot of W&C summers also return after their clerkships so there aren't as many spots for clerks who didn't summer there. By contrast, Molo relies on clerk hiring, and doesn't require as tip top credentials as Susman/Kellogg.

[Anonymous User]

While we are on the subject, does anyone have updated info on W&C’s pay scale and clerkship bonuses?

Yes, would be very curious. From other threads, it sounds like the overall pay gap with the Cravath scale widens even more in the mid-level years - since W&C offers only a slight above-market base and no yearend bonus.