Clerks Taking Questions Forum

[bk1]

My sense is that #4 at a "T15-18" is not good enough. From a school of that caliber I'd think #1 is necessary.

Do schools in that range publish class rank? I did not know that and find it a little shocking.

I don't know about all the schools and have no idea where OP went, but as an example at UT, the top 4 at the end of 2L would be Grand Chancellor, Vice Chancellor, Clerk, and Keeper of the Peregrinus, respectively. That doesn't necessarily line up with final rank, but it's certainly indicative.

wut

UT trying to compete with Hogwarts.

[A. Nony Mouse]

FedSoc board (which can be scrubbed depending on the judge)

Don't do that. It's both unethical and easily discoverable (and therefore stupid).

? The whole point of a resume is that it's selective. You put on it what's going to make you an attractive candidate to whoever's going to be reading it. It would be one thing if you put FedSoc board on and you weren't on it.

Also DAMN I want to be Keeper of the Peregrinus.

[Boltsfan]

UT trying to compete with Hogwarts.

I am completely blown away by this. 2L is the strangest time to have a grades cut-off for honors. 1L lets you put it on your resume for OCI and clerkship interviews. 3L gets you latin honors at graduation. 2L is just strange.

Also, the 16 highest GPAs makes this sound like the worst club on campus. I can't believe I've never heard of this before. Nobody I know from UT has ever mentioned this to me.

[BVest]

UT trying to compete with Hogwarts.

I am completely blown away by this. 2L is the strangest time to have a grades cut-off for honors. 1L lets you put it on your resume for OCI and clerkship interviews. 3L gets you latin honors at graduation. 2L is just strange.

Also, the 16 highest GPAs makes this sound like the worst club on campus. I can't believe I've never heard of this before. Nobody I know from UT has ever mentioned this to me.

It dates to 1912. I assume it was done after 2L because the chancellors were meant to be some sort of senior class leadership (though I don't know for sure, was not one, and am not going to research it). As for people mentioning it, it requires somewhere around a 3.94 or so, so most people aren't too concerned about it after 1L fall.

[bk1]

FedSoc board (which can be scrubbed depending on the judge)

Don't do that. It's both unethical and easily discoverable (and therefore stupid).

? The whole point of a resume is that it's selective. You put on it what's going to make you an attractive candidate to whoever's going to be reading it. It would be one thing if you put FedSoc board on and you weren't on it.

Completely agree with this. It's not unethical to tailor your resume (it's normal). Take FedSoc off if you think it would hurt you with a judge. Leave it on if you thin it will help you.

[Anonymous User]

I've heard of judges not allowing clerks to accept big law offers (while allowing it to remain open). But how often does a judge actually make you reject the law firm offer?

[Anonymous User]

I've heard of judges not allowing clerks to accept big law offers (while allowing it to remain open). But how often does a judge actually make you reject the law firm offer?

What do you mean by "reject an offer?"

[lawlorbust]

Pfft.

[jrf12886]

I've heard of judges not allowing clerks to accept big law offers (while allowing it to remain open). But how often does a judge actually make you reject the law firm offer?

There is usually no formal offer anyways. If the partners (or recruiting staff) are reaching out to check in on you (via email or otherwise), then they are signaling that they want you to come back. There is normally no need for a formal offer or formal acceptance.

[Anonymous User]

I've heard of judges not allowing clerks to accept big law offers (while allowing it to remain open). But how often does a judge actually make you reject the law firm offer?

There is usually no formal offer anyways. If the partners (or recruiting staff) are reaching out to check in on you (via email or otherwise), then they are signaling that they want you to come back. There is normally no need for a formal offer or formal acceptance.

Hi thanks for your response. I meant the question in the context of someone who has an unaccepted offer from their 2L SA firm (clerking right after law school). The 2L law firm has maintained that the offer will remain open for the duration of clerkship.

[jrf12886]

I've heard of judges not allowing clerks to accept big law offers (while allowing it to remain open). But how often does a judge actually make you reject the law firm offer?

There is usually no formal offer anyways. If the partners (or recruiting staff) are reaching out to check in on you (via email or otherwise), then they are signaling that they want you to come back. There is normally no need for a formal offer or formal acceptance.

Hi thanks for your response. I meant the question in the context of someone who has an unaccepted offer from their 2L SA firm (clerking right after law school). The 2L law firm has maintained that the offer will remain open for the duration of clerkship.

Ah gotcha. That's a little bit different. I think most judges do not have such a policy. If your judge does, I would contact the firm and let them know of that policy and that for that reason, you cannot formaly accept your offer, but that you will reach out to the firm close to the end of your clerkship to discuss coming back. This is actually not a horrible situation, as it allows you to interview elsewhere if you are inclined to do so.

[unicorntamer666]

What is the chillest clerkship that still makes one eligible for clerkship bonuses and confers enough resume value to warrant a hiatus from a V5 firm? 3.8 GPA at MVP, NY-focused in long term and will therefore apply to SDNY/EDNY/CA2, but am open to more unorthodox alternatives.

Specifically, I'm wondering whether DVI qualifies as a "federal clerkship" for bonus purposes despite technically being Article IV (not Article III).

Similarly, wondering whether a District of Hawaii clerkship is respectable enough to increase one's odds of getting hired at a fancy lit boutique (Susman, Boies, Kellogg Huber, etc.) or other top firm, or whether it adds no value or might even raise eyebrows.

[Anonymous User]

I think you underestimate how hard Hawaii is. I applied to a few Hawaii gigs (with a slightly better GPA from a slightly better school) and got no bites. I assume ties are paramount, except for maybe Clifton.

[Anonymous User]

I think you underestimate how hard Hawaii is. I applied to a few Hawaii gigs (with a slightly better GPA from a slightly better school) and got no bites. I assume ties are paramount, except for maybe Clifton.

Yeah, I have no insight on how respectable D. Hawaii is, but I've heard that it's more competitive than lots of other clerkships if only because it's Art. III AND is a 'better' place to live for a year than a flyover district.

[Anonymous User]

What is the chillest clerkship that still makes one eligible for clerkship bonuses and confers enough resume value to warrant a hiatus from a V5 firm? 3.8 GPA at MVP, NY-focused in long term and will therefore apply to SDNY/EDNY/CA2, but am open to more unorthodox alternatives.

Specifically, I'm wondering whether DVI qualifies as a "federal clerkship" for bonus purposes despite technically being Article IV (not Article III).

Similarly, wondering whether a District of Hawaii clerkship is respectable enough to increase one's odds of getting hired at a fancy lit boutique (Susman, Boies, Kellogg Huber, etc.) or other top firm, or whether it adds no value or might even raise eyebrows.

My buddy was top 5 in the class, DNC, non-aspie and couldn't cop D.HI. Its probably as competitive as SDNY right now (maybe more so) since all the non-citizens from t14 schools who want to clerk apply there

Ties aren't paramount; it's the fact that the judges can routinely find a top of the t6 grad that is a non-citizen and yet still wants to clerk. Easy pickings

[bk1]

What is the chillest clerkship that still makes one eligible for clerkship bonuses and confers enough resume value to warrant a hiatus from a V5 firm? 3.8 GPA at MVP, NY-focused in long term and will therefore apply to SDNY/EDNY/CA2, but am open to more unorthodox alternatives.

Specifically, I'm wondering whether DVI qualifies as a "federal clerkship" for bonus purposes despite technically being Article IV (not Article III).

Similarly, wondering whether a District of Hawaii clerkship is respectable enough to increase one's odds of getting hired at a fancy lit boutique (Susman, Boies, Kellogg Huber, etc.) or other top firm, or whether it adds no value or might even raise eyebrows.

Re bonus: I think it'll depend on the firm as to whether non-DCt/CoA clerkships qualify. Some might have tiers for bonus (e.g., 25k for SSC, 50k for federal). I'm not sure what the most common practice is.

Re lit boutiques: as far as I understand it, clerkships aren't really significant to the odds of people targeting those firms. Your law school creds are what tend to matter and if those aren't up to snuff, then a clerkship isn't going to change too much. Someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

[unicorntamer666]

What is the chillest clerkship that still makes one eligible for clerkship bonuses and confers enough resume value to warrant a hiatus from a V5 firm? 3.8 GPA at MVP, NY-focused in long term and will therefore apply to SDNY/EDNY/CA2, but am open to more unorthodox alternatives.

Specifically, I'm wondering whether DVI qualifies as a "federal clerkship" for bonus purposes despite technically being Article IV (not Article III).

Similarly, wondering whether a District of Hawaii clerkship is respectable enough to increase one's odds of getting hired at a fancy lit boutique (Susman, Boies, Kellogg Huber, etc.) or other top firm, or whether it adds no value or might even raise eyebrows.

Re bonus: I think it'll depend on the firm as to whether non-DCt/CoA clerkships qualify. Some might have tiers for bonus (e.g., 25k for SSC, 50k for federal). I'm not sure what the most common practice is.

Re lit boutiques: as far as I understand it, clerkships aren't really significant to the odds of people targeting those firms. Your law school creds are what tend to matter and if those aren't up to snuff, then a clerkship isn't going to change too much. Someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Thanks bk1 and all of the above for your helpful responses. Sounds like just about any fed clerkship is worth applying for.

[Anonymous User]

Would publishing articles online/in magazines upset a judge if the articles are generally of a different ideology/policy? I am talking about clerking for a liberal judge and writing in National Review or clerking for a conservative judge and writing in the Nation. I sold myself as a liberal to a liberal/conservative to a conservative but am interested in writing for the "other side." I'll be clerking for a circuit judge next year, and don't want to get off on a bad foot.

[Anonymous User]

Would publishing articles online/in magazines upset a judge if the articles are generally of a different ideology/policy? I am talking about clerking for a liberal judge and writing in National Review or clerking for a conservative judge and writing in the Nation. I sold myself as a liberal to a liberal/conservative to a conservative but am interested in writing for the "other side." I'll be clerking for a circuit judge next year, and don't want to get off on a bad foot.

My judge interprets broadly the political activity rule in the judicial code of conduct and prohibits clerks from publishing any political opinion. You'll want to ask your judge whether you can publish (the answer is probably no).

[jrf12886]

Would publishing articles online/in magazines upset a judge if the articles are generally of a different ideology/policy? I am talking about clerking for a liberal judge and writing in National Review or clerking for a conservative judge and writing in the Nation. I sold myself as a liberal to a liberal/conservative to a conservative but am interested in writing for the "other side." I'll be clerking for a circuit judge next year, and don't want to get off on a bad foot.

Technically, publishing a ideological piece would not violate the ethical rules for judicial employees (they can be found at http://www.uscourts.gov/file/2852/download). The rules prohibit "partisan political activity" and certain "non-partisan political activity" (but non-partisan still means supporting a non-partisan candidate for office). But there is a separate question of whether your particular judge would be upset if you wrote a ideological piece while clerking, and there is no way to answer that without knowing the judge. My personal view is that as long as the article does not mention your job as a clerk (or the judge you clerk for), then your judge has no business controlling what you publish on your own behalf. I imagine others would have different perspectives on this, however.

[Lincoln]

Would publishing articles online/in magazines upset a judge if the articles are generally of a different ideology/policy? I am talking about clerking for a liberal judge and writing in National Review or clerking for a conservative judge and writing in the Nation. I sold myself as a liberal to a liberal/conservative to a conservative but am interested in writing for the "other side." I'll be clerking for a circuit judge next year, and don't want to get off on a bad foot.

This would likely be frowned upon in my chambers without prior approval.

[mjb447]

Would publishing articles online/in magazines upset a judge if the articles are generally of a different ideology/policy? I am talking about clerking for a liberal judge and writing in National Review or clerking for a conservative judge and writing in the Nation. I sold myself as a liberal to a liberal/conservative to a conservative but am interested in writing for the "other side." I'll be clerking for a circuit judge next year, and don't want to get off on a bad foot.

I'd ask the judge as well. If you're denied permission you probably just have to put off publishing for a year or two. The potential downside is greater if you publish without asking.

[Anonymous User]

My judge interprets broadly the political activity rule in the judicial code of conduct and prohibits clerks from publishing any political opinion. You'll want to ask your judge whether you can publish (the answer is probably no).

My COA judge does the same. Check first.

[Anonymous User]

It would never have occurred to me to think my judges had a veto over stuff I published before the clerkship started. Interesting discussion.

[ArtistOfManliness]

Would publishing articles online/in magazines upset a judge if the articles are generally of a different ideology/policy? I am talking about clerking for a liberal judge and writing in National Review or clerking for a conservative judge and writing in the Nation. I sold myself as a liberal to a liberal/conservative to a conservative but am interested in writing for the "other side." I'll be clerking for a circuit judge next year, and don't want to get off on a bad foot.

This would likely be frowned upon in my chambers without prior approval.

In all chambers w/o prior approval.