Feeder Judge Ratings OT 2016 - 2020 (and a bit beyond) Forum

[Anonymous User]

Do Columbia and NYU just not make any effort to place their top students on SCOTUS?

Columbia, sure seems like it. I’ve had friends struggle to get the institutional support needed despite being a very strong candidate.

[Anonymous User]

Do Columbia and NYU just not make any effort to place their top students on SCOTUS?

Columbia, sure seems like it. I’ve had friends struggle to get the institutional support needed despite being a very strong candidate.

The lack of a substantial pipeline to conservative feeders really hurts both schools. Columbia is basically down a clerk a year after replacing RBG with Barrett. NYU is extremely reliant on Sotomayor, but we hold our own when we do place grads with conservative feeders (see 2020 with 4 clerks, two with conservatives).

[Anonymous User]

Do Columbia and NYU just not make any effort to place their top students on SCOTUS?

Columbia, sure seems like it. I’ve had friends struggle to get the institutional support needed despite being a very strong candidate.

The lack of a substantial pipeline to conservative feeders really hurts both schools. Columbia is basically down a clerk a year after replacing RBG with Barrett. NYU is extremely reliant on Sotomayor, but we hold our own when we do place grads with conservative feeders (see 2020 with 4 clerks, two with conservatives).

NYU having Richard Epstein part-time is probably part of it. Park hires somewhat regularly from CLS, as you’d expect from someone with a spouse on the faculty, as does Livingston, who obviously teaches at CLS, so there isn’t *no* network, but it’s small.

[Anonymous User]

Mini-update with Lat out: mostly KBJ clerks, with a couple out-year CJR / Alito clerks. Kovner nabs a second, Thapar continues doing Thapar things, and we have a *double* SCOTUS clerk. Nothing surprising on the lib side--it's interesting how I believe all of Nathan's feeds were pre-elevation; will be interesting to see, if like her fellow 2d-sitting-by-designation-on-SDNY peer Sullivan, the feeding continues post-elevation, though with only 3 libs on the Court, it may be harder to "see" in the stats for a while.

[Anonymous User]

Thapar has a whopping 10 feeds over next two years. Is that a record?

[Anonymous User]

Mini-update with Lat out: mostly KBJ clerks, with a couple out-year CJR / Alito clerks. Kovner nabs a second, Thapar continues doing Thapar things, and we have a *double* SCOTUS clerk. Nothing surprising on the lib side--it's interesting how I believe all of Nathan's feeds were pre-elevation; will be interesting to see, if like her fellow 2d-sitting-by-designation-on-SDNY peer Sullivan, the feeding continues post-elevation, though with only 3 libs on the Court, it may be harder to "see" in the stats for a while.

Who's the Kovner clerk?

[Anonymous User]

Mini-update with Lat out: mostly KBJ clerks, with a couple out-year CJR / Alito clerks. Kovner nabs a second, Thapar continues doing Thapar things, and we have a *double* SCOTUS clerk. Nothing surprising on the lib side--it's interesting how I believe all of Nathan's feeds were pre-elevation; will be interesting to see, if like her fellow 2d-sitting-by-designation-on-SDNY peer Sullivan, the feeding continues post-elevation, though with only 3 libs on the Court, it may be harder to "see" in the stats for a while.

Who's the Kovner clerk?

Yale class of 2021, Kovner -> Thapar -> CJR

[Anonymous User]

Mini-update with Lat out: mostly KBJ clerks, with a couple out-year CJR / Alito clerks. Kovner nabs a second, Thapar continues doing Thapar things, and we have a *double* SCOTUS clerk. Nothing surprising on the lib side--it's interesting how I believe all of Nathan's feeds were pre-elevation; will be interesting to see, if like her fellow 2d-sitting-by-designation-on-SDNY peer Sullivan, the feeding continues post-elevation, though with only 3 libs on the Court, it may be harder to "see" in the stats for a while.

Can anyone post the breakdown?

[Anonymous User]

One interesting broader trend: it appears that, despite the raw stats, Wilkinson and O'Scannlain aren't really differentiated from the "new" feeders on a per-term basis anymore. I think Wilkinson has one in the OT2022 forward clerks announced and O'Scannlain has none. Obviously a young glittering conservative is going to prefer Katsas / Thapar / Pryor / Sutton, but there's not much daylight at all between Wilkinson and O'Scannlain and the Rao / Bibas / Oldham / Hardiman / Newsom types either anymore.

They'll both probably be "fine" feeding-wise despite nonideal locations, but they are getting up there in age. Wilkinson will have a few libs apply to him as always, but he's not really a glittering New Right type of judge in the way some of the other judges are, which might be more exciting both for applicants and some of the new Justices.

O'Scannlain seems more ideological and exciting for true believers, but there are "better" (both in terms of feeding numbers and age) judges in his "category" for feeder candidates these days. Portland also is what it is location-wise, and it might be less exciting than the 11th Cir. locations for conservatives, and again, he's 85.

[Anonymous User]

Could someone post the new hires? Is OT 2023 full?

YLS —> Lohier/Moss (DDC) —> JGR
YLS —> Sullivan (SDNY)/JR Brown —> CT
YLS —> Thapar —> CT
YLS —> Rao/Sullivan —> SAA
YLS —> Thapar/Katsas —> SAA
Penn —> Tjoflat/Matey —> SAA
YLS —> Kethledge/Grant —> NMG
NW —> Oldham/Pryor —> NMG
Chi —> Thapar/Oldham —> NMG
YLS —> Cabranes —> NMG
UVA —> Oldham/Thapar —> NMG
HLS —> Oldham/Newsom —> NMG
YLS —> Bibas/JR Walker —> NMG
YLS —> Hardiman —> BMK
ND —> Colloton/Sutton —> ACB
UVA —> Sykes/Katsas —> ACB
SLS —> Bibas/Friedrich (DDC) —> ACB
Chi —> Thapar/Katsas —> ACB
YLS —> Kethledge/Thapar —> AMK

That Oldham to Gorsuch pipeline is quite something

Seems like Lohier may take over as the big liberal feeder on CA2 now that Katzmann has passed?

[lavarman84]

It's certainly not a good thing that with the absolutely idiotic decisions Oldham has had a hand in producing of late, so many of his clerks are getting SCOTUS clerkships.

[Anonymous User]

Could someone post the new hires? Is OT 2023 full?

YLS —> Lohier/Moss (DDC) —> JGR
YLS —> Sullivan (SDNY)/JR Brown —> CT
YLS —> Thapar —> CT
YLS —> Rao/Sullivan —> SAA
YLS —> Thapar/Katsas —> SAA
Penn —> Tjoflat/Matey —> SAA
YLS —> Kethledge/Grant —> NMG
NW —> Oldham/Pryor —> NMG
Chi —> Thapar/Oldham —> NMG
YLS —> Cabranes —> NMG
UVA —> Oldham/Thapar —> NMG
HLS —> Oldham/Newsom —> NMG
YLS —> Bibas/JR Walker —> NMG
YLS —> Hardiman —> BMK
ND —> Colloton/Sutton —> ACB
UVA —> Sykes/Katsas —> ACB
SLS —> Bibas/Friedrich (DDC) —> ACB
Chi —> Thapar/Katsas —> ACB
YLS —> Kethledge/Thapar —> AMK

That Oldham to Gorsuch pipeline is quite something

Seems like Lohier may take over as the big liberal feeder on CA2 now that Katzmann has passed?

I guess by default, but that’s not saying much because most of the liberal talent in New York is in SDNY. One story might be seeing whether Rakoff continues (or even has interest in, considering he’s nearly 80) being a feeder post-Katzmann. His very far out-year hiring was pretty unappealing even with the Katzmann link / clean shot at SCOTUS attached, but without that perk it’s just a little weird.

[Anonymous User]

It's certainly not a good thing that with the absolutely idiotic decisions Oldham has had a hand in producing of late, so many of his clerks are getting SCOTUS clerkships.

It’s strange that he’s amassed this level of support because even for his “brand” of conservatism he seems intellectually not really up to the level of Ho in his own court. I always thought of him as a step behind certainly Thapar / Sutton / Bibas as a thinker, but I guess Gorsuch disagrees.

[Anonymous User]

With the rise of so many conservative regular feeders, it's kind of interesting how the 9th Circuit, being chock full of Trump appointees, doesn't really have any super compelling conservative feeders relative to the 5th / 6th / 11th / DC batch. You would think Bress and Collins, both qualified and not really "moderate" like Miller, would be duking it out given the current Court. Perhaps in time they'll develop but it doesn't make a ton of sense from the outside why they'd be lagging. Maybe it's nothing, like the supposed "delay" in Park / Pacold / Kovner feeding.

[Anonymous User]

It's certainly not a good thing that with the absolutely idiotic decisions Oldham has had a hand in producing of late, so many of his clerks are getting SCOTUS clerkships.

It’s strange that he’s amassed this level of support because even for his “brand” of conservatism he seems intellectually not really up to the level of Ho in his own court. I always thought of him as a step behind certainly Thapar / Sutton / Bibas as a thinker, but I guess Gorsuch disagrees.

Ehh I think Oldham's writing is objectively really good, and in particular he loves writing about English legal history, which also seems to be one of Gorsuch's passions. Bibas and Sutton are two of the most distinguished federal judges on any metric but I'd probably put Oldham at least level with Thapar.

[Anonymous User]

With the rise of so many conservative regular feeders, it's kind of interesting how the 9th Circuit, being chock full of Trump appointees, doesn't really have any super compelling conservative feeders relative to the 5th / 6th / 11th / DC batch. You would think Bress and Collins, both qualified and not really "moderate" like Miller, would be duking it out given the current Court. Perhaps in time they'll develop but it doesn't make a ton of sense from the outside why they'd be lagging. Maybe it's nothing, like the supposed "delay" in Park / Pacold / Kovner feeding.

Bress has in the pipeline a lot of the top Fed Soc applicants from UVA (the sorts Wilkinson used to always get) and Stanford. I would expect him to be a significant feeder.

It's worth remembering that Bress, Collins, Park, Pacold, and Kovner were among the later Trump appointees, so they've had a couple fewer classes of clerks than e.g. Bibas, Newsom, Thapar, and McFadden, who were among the earliest Trump appointees. And for many judges the first class or two of clerks will be less selective than other classes, because they'll be people with connections hired before confirmation.

[Anonymous User]

It's certainly not a good thing that with the absolutely idiotic decisions Oldham has had a hand in producing of late, so many of his clerks are getting SCOTUS clerkships.

It’s strange that he’s amassed this level of support because even for his “brand” of conservatism he seems intellectually not really up to the level of Ho in his own court. I always thought of him as a step behind certainly Thapar / Sutton / Bibas as a thinker, but I guess Gorsuch disagrees.

Ehh I think Oldham's writing is objectively really good, and in particular he loves writing about English legal history, which also seems to be one of Gorsuch's passions. Bibas and Sutton are two of the most distinguished federal judges on any metric but I'd probably put Oldham at least level with Thapar.

Agree with all this, and would add that Oldham and Gorsuch were both partners at Kellogg Huber.

[Anonymous User]

It's certainly not a good thing that with the absolutely idiotic decisions Oldham has had a hand in producing of late, so many of his clerks are getting SCOTUS clerkships.

It’s strange that he’s amassed this level of support because even for his “brand” of conservatism he seems intellectually not really up to the level of Ho in his own court. I always thought of him as a step behind certainly Thapar / Sutton / Bibas as a thinker, but I guess Gorsuch disagrees.

Ehh I think Oldham's writing is objectively really good, and in particular he loves writing about English legal history, which also seems to be one of Gorsuch's passions. Bibas and Sutton are two of the most distinguished federal judges on any metric but I'd probably put Oldham at least level with Thapar.

Agree with all this, and would add that Oldham and Gorsuch were both partners at Kellogg Huber.

Oldham was never a partner at Kellogg Huber and he and Gorsuch never overlapped

[Anonymous User]

It's certainly not a good thing that with the absolutely idiotic decisions Oldham has had a hand in producing of late, so many of his clerks are getting SCOTUS clerkships.

It’s strange that he’s amassed this level of support because even for his “brand” of conservatism he seems intellectually not really up to the level of Ho in his own court. I always thought of him as a step behind certainly Thapar / Sutton / Bibas as a thinker, but I guess Gorsuch disagrees.

Ehh I think Oldham's writing is objectively really good, and in particular he loves writing about English legal history, which also seems to be one of Gorsuch's passions. Bibas and Sutton are two of the most distinguished federal judges on any metric but I'd probably put Oldham at least level with Thapar.

His writing style is fine. His jurisprudence is a little choppy—compare his dissenting opinion to Ho’s (I believe majority and concurring) in the private prison case, and it all seems very rushed and a little hand-wavy relatively.

[Anonymous User]

Thapar, Katsas, Sutton, Pryor and Oldham are probably the top conservative feeders in some order. Katsas benefits from taking people on their second clerkship so he'll get some of the best clerks from the other four judges. In that sense, Katsas might end up being more competitive than SCOTUS for a conservative because there are six Justices (plus Kennedy's clerk) while only four slots with him. I wouldn't be surprised if Katsas ends up getting 4/4 most years.

[Anonymous User]

Thapar, Katsas, Sutton, Pryor and Oldham are probably the top conservative feeders in some order. Katsas benefits from taking people on their second clerkship so he'll get some of the best clerks from the other four judges. In that sense, Katsas might end up being more competitive than SCOTUS for a conservative because there are six Justices (plus Kennedy's clerk) while only four slots with him. I wouldn't be surprised if Katsas ends up getting 4/4 most years.

Agreed. Katsas and Thapar have the reputation in FedSoc circles of going to extraordinary lengths to hire clerks they know they can easily feed. Their numbers will be stratospheric, but not all of that will be because their phone calls are the "golden ticket," at least not yet. Pryor and Sutton are less focused on recruiting Yale's FedSoc president, and they'll sometimes take a flyer on an Alabama or OSU valedictorian and land them SCOTUS clerkships on the strength of their reputation alone.

[Anonymous User]

I think at some point success begets itself. Thapar and Katsas aren't just getting "easy" feeds now. The top conservative students in the country have them at the top of their list.

[Anonymous User]

Thapar, Katsas, Sutton, Pryor and Oldham are probably the top conservative feeders in some order. Katsas benefits from taking people on their second clerkship so he'll get some of the best clerks from the other four judges. In that sense, Katsas might end up being more competitive than SCOTUS for a conservative because there are six Justices (plus Kennedy's clerk) while only four slots with him. I wouldn't be surprised if Katsas ends up getting 4/4 most years.

Agreed. Katsas and Thapar have the reputation in FedSoc circles of going to extraordinary lengths to hire clerks they know they can easily feed. Their numbers will be stratospheric, but not all of that will be because their phone calls are the "golden ticket," at least not yet. Pryor and Sutton are less focused on recruiting Yale's FedSoc president, and they'll sometimes take a flyer on an Alabama or OSU valedictorian and land them SCOTUS clerkships on the strength of their reputation alone.

Thapar hires extraordinarily early for some candidates—he’s long been notorious for hiring YLS students without grades, and I know he hired one this year—while Katsas hires practically on-plan afaik. Very different strategies.

[Anonymous User]

Thapar, Katsas, Sutton, Pryor and Oldham are probably the top conservative feeders in some order. Katsas benefits from taking people on their second clerkship so he'll get some of the best clerks from the other four judges. In that sense, Katsas might end up being more competitive than SCOTUS for a conservative because there are six Justices (plus Kennedy's clerk) while only four slots with him. I wouldn't be surprised if Katsas ends up getting 4/4 most years.

Agreed. Katsas and Thapar have the reputation in FedSoc circles of going to extraordinary lengths to hire clerks they know they can easily feed. Their numbers will be stratospheric, but not all of that will be because their phone calls are the "golden ticket," at least not yet. Pryor and Sutton are less focused on recruiting Yale's FedSoc president, and they'll sometimes take a flyer on an Alabama or OSU valedictorian and land them SCOTUS clerkships on the strength of their reputation alone.

Thapar hires extraordinarily early for some candidates—he’s long been notorious for hiring YLS students without grades, and I know he hired one this year—while Katsas hires practically on-plan afaik. Very different strategies.

How is this even possible? What does he go off of? He just reflexively hires any Yalies who were Rhodes scholars?

[Anonymous User]

Thapar, Katsas, Sutton, Pryor and Oldham are probably the top conservative feeders in some order. Katsas benefits from taking people on their second clerkship so he'll get some of the best clerks from the other four judges. In that sense, Katsas might end up being more competitive than SCOTUS for a conservative because there are six Justices (plus Kennedy's clerk) while only four slots with him. I wouldn't be surprised if Katsas ends up getting 4/4 most years.

Agreed. Katsas and Thapar have the reputation in FedSoc circles of going to extraordinary lengths to hire clerks they know they can easily feed. Their numbers will be stratospheric, but not all of that will be because their phone calls are the "golden ticket," at least not yet. Pryor and Sutton are less focused on recruiting Yale's FedSoc president, and they'll sometimes take a flyer on an Alabama or OSU valedictorian and land them SCOTUS clerkships on the strength of their reputation alone.

Thapar hires extraordinarily early for some candidates—he’s long been notorious for hiring YLS students without grades, and I know he hired one this year—while Katsas hires practically on-plan afaik. Very different strategies.

How is this even possible? What does he go off of? He just reflexively hires any Yalies who were Rhodes scholars?

Yale + FedSoc + connections + at least one prof with good shadow grades OR a recommender willing to play the off-plan reference call game is a small but consistently nonzero pool that’s not much of a risk. Plus he has 5 clerks a term instead of 4, which lets him take a “flyer” consistently.