2019-2020 Post-Clerkship Hiring Forum

[Anonymous User]

Should we assume hiring will “pick up” any time this summer? We pretty much lost out on peak hiring, and I’m not sure whether I should just temper expectations with what’s out there now or hold off for firms to start looking more broadly. Any thoughts?

I think it’d be a mistake to assume hiring will pick up this year

... I think this depends a little on what you mean by "pick up."

This is just my .02, but: right now, as far as I know, firms are not hiring *at all.* Everyone has hunkered down while the offices are shut. Some are explicitly saying they'll resume the process once the offices reopen; some are just hinting at it; some are total radio silence; some (based on layoffs etc.) are clearly not going to restart the process, whatever they're saying.

Now. If I had an outstanding offer, I would ABSOLUTELY take it. If I had done a d.ct. or COA clerkship, and had an interest in the other kind of clerkship, and could get it, I would ABSOLUTELY take it. I do not think the economy is going to bounce right back in a couple of months.

I think the hiring process will be both lower-volume and slower than it has historically been. I will also frankly be surprised if firms still give clerkship bonuses in the fall. But I do think there will be some movement this summer, as compared to the absolutely no movement I'm hearing/seeing right now. In that sense, it will "pick up."

This is a thoughtful post. Fully agree.

I don’t know what to think about clerkship bonuses. There’s a first-mover problem since the market is currently at 50k. If one firm cuts the bonus and few follow, they’ll have to go back up or risk not getting clerks. (Or maybe that’s not true. If you assume 800 judges with two clerks each year that want biglaw, that’s 1600 applicants for probably less than 1600 big law clerk openings.)

Idk what the actual number is of clerks on the market each year. (Suspect it’s probably higher)

I'm the original (.02) anon poster.

What I really meant in my comment about bonuses was this: I think this fall specifically, firms know they're in a buyer's market vis a vis clerks, and you'll see that reflected. I'm not necessarily saying I think the big shops (Jones Day, S&C, etc.) will yank bonuses already promised to folks with outstanding offers, or that you'll see offers of lower bonuses. Instead, I'm half-expecting to see firms make lateral rather than post-clerkship offers, so they don't need to pay any bonus; I think folks will take those offers who might not otherwise, happy to have a job at all.

[Anonymous User]

Should we assume hiring will “pick up” any time this summer? We pretty much lost out on peak hiring, and I’m not sure whether I should just temper expectations with what’s out there now or hold off for firms to start looking more broadly. Any thoughts?

I think it’d be a mistake to assume hiring will pick up this year

... I think this depends a little on what you mean by "pick up."

This is just my .02, but: right now, as far as I know, firms are not hiring *at all.* Everyone has hunkered down while the offices are shut. Some are explicitly saying they'll resume the process once the offices reopen; some are just hinting at it; some are total radio silence; some (based on layoffs etc.) are clearly not going to restart the process, whatever they're saying.

Now. If I had an outstanding offer, I would ABSOLUTELY take it. If I had done a d.ct. or COA clerkship, and had an interest in the other kind of clerkship, and could get it, I would ABSOLUTELY take it. I do not think the economy is going to bounce right back in a couple of months.

I think the hiring process will be both lower-volume and slower than it has historically been. I will also frankly be surprised if firms still give clerkship bonuses in the fall. But I do think there will be some movement this summer, as compared to the absolutely no movement I'm hearing/seeing right now. In that sense, it will "pick up."

This is a thoughtful post. Fully agree.

I don’t know what to think about clerkship bonuses. There’s a first-mover problem since the market is currently at 50k. If one firm cuts the bonus and few follow, they’ll have to go back up or risk not getting clerks. (Or maybe that’s not true. If you assume 800 judges with two clerks each year that want biglaw, that’s 1600 applicants for probably less than 1600 big law clerk openings.)

Idk what the actual number is of clerks on the market each year. (Suspect it’s probably higher)

I'm the original (.02) anon poster.

What I really meant in my comment about bonuses was this: I think this fall specifically, firms know they're in a buyer's market vis a vis clerks, and you'll see that reflected. I'm not necessarily saying I think the big shops (Jones Day, S&C, etc.) will yank bonuses already promised to folks with outstanding offers, or that you'll see offers of lower bonuses. Instead, I'm half-expecting to see firms make lateral rather than post-clerkship offers, so they don't need to pay any bonus; I think folks will take those offers who might not otherwise, happy to have a job at all.

Original .02 anon poster is wise; I've had a few mid-tier firms (v30-70) push me towards lateral recruiting.

[Anonymous User]

I haven't started clerking yet, but I'm curious what my chances might be at elite D.C. lit firms like Kellogg Hansen, Wilkinson Walsh, Williams & Connolly when I come out. Just how stringent are post-clerkship hiring standards? Top 5% CCN, district court clerkship a tier below SDNY/DDC, minor feeder non-2/9/DC appellate clerkship (think Barrett or Newsom), V5 2L SA, quite weak D.C. ties and probably look like a flight risk but do have a reason to be there.

[Anonymous User]

Can someone explain the timeline of post-clerkship hiring to a naive law student? I have '21-term D. Ct. clerkship and a '22-term COA clerkship. Looking at post-clerkship hiring in Texas. Would I start applying during my D. Ct. clerkship or wait until my 2022? Looks like most of the activity is usually between December and February, right?

[lavarman84]

Can someone explain the timeline of post-clerkship hiring to a naive law student? I have '21-term D. Ct. clerkship and a '22-term COA clerkship. Looking at post-clerkship hiring in Texas. Would I start applying during my D. Ct. clerkship or wait until my 2022? Looks like most of the activity is usually between December and February, right?

Wait until 2022. If you're applying to biglaw, most of the hiring seems to occurred in that window you described. Some firms might hire a little earlier. Some might hire a little later.

[Anonymous User]

Can someone explain the timeline of post-clerkship hiring to a naive law student? I have '21-term D. Ct. clerkship and a '22-term COA clerkship. Looking at post-clerkship hiring in Texas. Would I start applying during my D. Ct. clerkship or wait until my 2022? Looks like most of the activity is usually between December and February, right?

Wait until 2022. If you're applying to biglaw, most of the hiring seems to occurred in that window you described. Some firms might hire a little earlier. Some might hire a little later.

Seconded. In Texas, the biglaw market appears to begin moving about a month behind other regions (late January/February as opposed to early December in New York). I've heard that some of the litigation boutiques, which are supposedly where a lot of the litigation work happens in Texas, hire more on the New York timeline.

[franny90]

any updates from firms about clerk start dates/whether they'll be delayed like first years?

[Anonymous User]

My post-clerkship firm is sticking to normal start dates so far -- most recent word being this week.

[Anonymous User]

Is your firm keeping normal dates for first years, too? Or delaying first years but starting clerks as normal?

On another thread someone said a V10 was delaying clerks but didn’t identify the firm.

[Anonymous User]

My firm told me this week that although they are delaying incoming first-years, incoming post-clerkship associates are remaining on the normal schedule (for now).

[Anonymous User]

One of the clerks in our courthouse had his return date delayed to January.

[LBJ's Hair]

I haven't started clerking yet, but I'm curious what my chances might be at elite D.C. lit firms like Kellogg Hansen, Wilkinson Walsh, Williams & Connolly when I come out. Just how stringent are post-clerkship hiring standards? Top 5% CCN, district court clerkship a tier below SDNY/DDC, minor feeder non-2/9/DC appellate clerkship (think Barrett or Newsom), V5 2L SA, quite weak D.C. ties and probably look like a flight risk but do have a reason to be there.

Your credentials would be totally fine -- just click through the associate bios to get a feel. Think would turn more on ties, their needs, etc.

[Anonymous User]

I had an offer from my firm to come back after my clerkship, after working there for a few years with great reviews, but now the firm is not sure they will be hiring any clerks back. This firm is really big on clerkships, too, and always has had associates coming and going from clerkships in my time there. I'm now going to have to scramble to line something up when firms have all basically frozen new hiring. Never in a million years thought they would pull my offer, but here we are.

[Anonymous User]

I had an offer from my firm to come back after my clerkship, after working there for a few years with great reviews, but now the firm is not sure they will be hiring any clerks back. This firm is really big on clerkships, too, and always has had associates coming and going from clerkships in my time there. I'm now going to have to scramble to line something up when firms have all basically frozen new hiring. Never in a million years thought they would pull my offer, but here we are.

that's truly terrible, hope you find some place better!

sorry accidental anonymous - franny90

[dcg0120]

I was in the midst of interviewing when everything went down. Luckily, I had accepted an offer from the firm I summered with (planning to just break contract and accept the consequences). A couple of weeks ago, they assured me that my job was still safe. Fast forward to this week, and the firm decided to push first year start dates back until February 1. They seem to have forgotten about the clerks, as no one (managing partner, head of the appellate group, director of litigation) can tell me if my start date has also been pushed back.

[Anonymous User]

Same boat here as most of y'all. Had callbacks scheduled in Texas just before everything went crashing down. Now, technically my callbacks are still on hold but I've heard that the firms who offered me the cbs are laying people off and/or cutting salaries. The law firm I came from in NYC has told me they will not be hiring me back too given COVID-19. So now I'm stuck looking for jobs and term clerkships - I have a COA clerkship for 2021-2022 and have a gap year in between. Judge has hired my replacement so I'm stuck in limbo hoping to find something to bridge that gap, whether it be a second district court clerkship, a fellowship, or some other thing. Pretty frustrated now and thinking I might need to go on unemployment if I don't have anything lined up by early August when my term ends.

[Anon-non-anon]

Can someone explain the timeline of post-clerkship hiring to a naive law student? I have '21-term D. Ct. clerkship and a '22-term COA clerkship. Looking at post-clerkship hiring in Texas. Would I start applying during my D. Ct. clerkship or wait until my 2022? Looks like most of the activity is usually between December and February, right?

Wait until 2022. If you're applying to biglaw, most of the hiring seems to occurred in that window you described. Some firms might hire a little earlier. Some might hire a little later.

Seconded. In Texas, the biglaw market appears to begin moving about a month behind other regions (late January/February as opposed to early December in New York). I've heard that some of the litigation boutiques, which are supposedly where a lot of the litigation work happens in Texas, hire more on the New York timeline.

I would apply on the earlier side to be safe (like December/January of second clerkship), and if don't hear anything back from places you're qualified for (all of them it seems), just ping them again. Nobody is gonna get mad at you for that. You could also take the first clerkship as an opportunity to build ties to ppl at your target firms (reach out about an informational interview way in the future, it's less obvious your just gunning for a job then).

[Anonymous User]

Anyone know anybody hiring in LA? Market seems pretty dead

[Anonymous User]

Anyone know anybody hiring in LA? Market seems pretty dead

Re LA - I'm getting crickets as well.

[Anonymous User]

Is anyone else who was planning on returning to their firm getting nervous? When I left my firm to clerk last year I was confident I could come back, but now I've been unable to get an answer from them. Given that hiring pretty much everywhere seems to have slowed down or frozen I'm not really sure what my other options would be, besides maybe looking for another clerkship.

I think it's right to be nervous, unfortunately. My V20 firm revoked my return offer. Also slow-played me for several months before responding. I read the tea leaves and started applying elsewhere, but that's unfortunately where things are.

[Anonymous User]

I had an offer from my firm to come back after my clerkship, after working there for a few years with great reviews, but now the firm is not sure they will be hiring any clerks back. This firm is really big on clerkships, too, and always has had associates coming and going from clerkships in my time there. I'm now going to have to scramble to line something up when firms have all basically frozen new hiring. Never in a million years thought they would pull my offer, but here we are.

Same boat, Anon OP. It's terrible. Anyone else just started sending out applications? [ETA: I'm the same Anon as the post above! Didn't mean to anonymously double-post.]

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone heard anything about hiring in Texas? I've been checking LinkedIn and other job boards religiously, and applying to anything for which I even sort of fit the description, but no dice.

My clerkship term ends in early August and I have turned myself into a ball of anxiety about unemployment. It doesn't help that I can't afford to keep living in my current city with no income, and that I'm not barred in the state where my parents live (and going back home is my only option outside of living in my car).

Anyone have any advice about explaining my upcoming resume gap in later interviews or things to do to FILL the resume gap? Volunteer work with the local legal aid? I've considered doing secretary work just to keep my car from being repossessed.

[Anonymous User]

Is anyone else who was planning on returning to their firm getting nervous? When I left my firm to clerk last year I was confident I could come back, but now I've been unable to get an answer from them. Given that hiring pretty much everywhere seems to have slowed down or frozen I'm not really sure what my other options would be, besides maybe looking for another clerkship.

I think it's right to be nervous, unfortunately. My V20 firm revoked my return offer. Also slow-played me for several months before responding. I read the tea leaves and started applying elsewhere, but that's unfortunately where things are.

Ugh very sorry to hear this.

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone heard anything about hiring in Texas? I've been checking LinkedIn and other job boards religiously, and applying to anything for which I even sort of fit the description, but no dice.

My clerkship term ends in early August and I have turned myself into a ball of anxiety about unemployment. It doesn't help that I can't afford to keep living in my current city with no income, and that I'm not barred in the state where my parents live (and going back home is my only option outside of living in my car).

Anyone have any advice about explaining my upcoming resume gap in later interviews or things to do to FILL the resume gap? Volunteer work with the local legal aid? I've considered doing secretary work just to keep my car from being repossessed.

I'm so sorry about this. I tried applying in Texas and felt pretty confident about my chances. You probably got similar responses: some of the national firms with regional offices indicated interests but couldn't commit right now, and the Texas firms pushed me towards lateral recruiting. I think recruiting or showing an interest in bankruptcy is probably the way to go right now. Beyond that, I don't know. My prayers go up for all similarly situated!

[Anonymous User]

Yeah, heard from a lot of Texas firms in January-February but hadn't clinched an offer. Radio silence since COVID hit.

Not looking good for Texas with all the massive O&G downturn and now it looks like the governor's botched opening up too early and things could get worse before they get better.