Clerks Taking Questions Forum

[Anonymous User]

So I just emailed one of my faculty recommender's assistants inquiring as to whether it would be possible to have my letter of recommendation completed early if I wanted to apply to judges that hire off plan (or at least have already begun taking applications). She responded that the school does follow the plan and so will not release recommendations early unless the judges fall within relevant exemption rules (and I have no idea what those rules are).

Any advice on what to do? Am I SOL? I'm afraid that a good number of the judges to whom I'd like to apply will have already hired their clerks by the time they get my application in early September.

[bellamy]

Assuming similar class position would your chances of a COA clerkship be enhanced by attending one of CCN rather than another?

[vamedic03]

So I just emailed one of my faculty recommender's assistants inquiring as to whether it would be possible to have my letter of recommendation completed early if I wanted to apply to judges that hire off plan (or at least have already begun taking applications). She responded that the school does follow the plan and so will not release recommendations early unless the judges fall within relevant exemption rules (and I have no idea what those rules are).

Any advice on what to do? Am I SOL? I'm afraid that a good number of the judges to whom I'd like to apply will have already hired their clerks by the time they get my application in early September.

Talk directly to the faculty members.

[Anonymous User]

Wouldn't directly approaching faculty recommenders be received poorly by some, especially after having received a negative answer from the assistant? Looks like I'm just trying to brush past the assistant, saying "I don't give a crap about the policy, just give me my recommendations!"

[vamedic03]

Wouldn't directly approaching faculty recommenders be received poorly by some, especially after having received a negative answer from the assistant? Looks like I'm just trying to brush past the assistant, saying "I don't give a crap about the policy, just give me my recommendations!"

You can feel out the faculty member if you go and talk to them. Update them with the judges you plan on applying to and make sure they know what you're up to. You can then tell them that you plan to apply off plan and that you understand that they want to comply with the plan, but ask what they would be willing to do. Perhaps they would be willing to mail certain letters or perhaps they would be open to simply receiving phone calls.

But, it's the prof's decision whether or not to sender a letter early. Unless you know that the secretary talked to the faculty member, then they're just telling you what school policy is.

[parttime7]

What kind of options does an Art III clerkship provide in terms of private practice? Does it open doors that you normally would not have received?

[Cavalier]

What kind of options does an Art III clerkship provide in terms of private practice? Does it open doors that you normally would not have received?

Depends. If you can get an Article III clerkship you probably already had the grades for a Vault 10 firm, but if for whatever reason you decide that you want to work somewhere besides your 2L summer firm (or you get no-offered), if you have a clerkship you'll be able to shop around. Court of Appeals clerkships are practically necessary if you want to do appellate litigation, and some litigation boutiques only recruit clerks--they don't hire students. If you want to do corporate work, firms are less concerned about clerkships.

[Cavalier]

Yeah, I guess I was referring to all the circuits and the non-flyover districts. I keep forgetting that Article III covers the flyover districts too!

[Anonymous User]

So would an Art III clerkship from a judge in a rural state like Louisiana open any doors? or no?

[random5483]

I skimmed the thread and did not find any of these questions. The questions might be silly, but I am a 1L interning with a federal court judge this summer, and I figure you are in a good position to answer the questions.

1. How do you do most of your research? Books/etc? WestLaw? Lexis? Combination?
2. If you use WestLaw/Lexis, are courts charged the way firms are or is it more like law school (ie. should I worry about developing efficient research skills in the next month?).

Thanks.

[imchuckbass58]

I skimmed the thread and did not find any of these questions. The questions might be silly, but I am a 1L interning with a federal court judge this summer, and I figure you are in a good position to answer the questions.

1. How do you do most of your research? Books/etc? WestLaw? Lexis? Combination?
2. If you use WestLaw/Lexis, are courts charged the way firms are or is it more like law school (ie. should I worry about developing efficient research skills in the next month?).

Thanks.

Here's my experience interning last summer:
-I rarely saw anyone (myself or the clerks) use anything except for Westlaw and Lexis. The only thing I can think of is once we requested a book from a library, but it was more for background reading than for actual research. That said, it will be extremely rare to use anything else besides lexis/westlaw. Even if you do, it will probably be some social science journal article that's available through jstor. Plus, most courts have a library and librarians that can help you out if you need to locate some esoteric book.

-I'm not sure of the structure of how courts are charged (flat fee, pay per document), but I know it is significantly, significantly less. Cost-effective research was not a concern at all (though cost-effective research is often also time-efficient research, so you might want to learn anyways). Double check, but I also think Lexis and Westlaw allow you to use your student account over the summer if you are working PI/for a judge, in which case your cost would be zero.

[Anonymous User]

Here is a question for anyone out there and wildly speculative responses are encouraged where hard data is lacking.

What are the big firm options for a T-75 grad, close to top of the class, who clerks at a solid district court (SDNY, DDC, NDCA, EDPA, EDVA, NDIL) close to their school but wants to work in another major market, i.e. in an area not near the clerkship or school? Assume no real ties to the area.

Similarly, what would be the options for a clerk who does CoA in a "flyover" area but wishes to work in a major market elsewhere?

I am trying to get a feel for how far, distance-wise, clerkships will go for a student outside the T-25.

[Anonymous User]

I skimmed the thread and did not find any of these questions. The questions might be silly, but I am a 1L interning with a federal court judge this summer, and I figure you are in a good position to answer the questions.

1. How do you do most of your research? Books/etc? WestLaw? Lexis? Combination?
2. If you use WestLaw/Lexis, are courts charged the way firms are or is it more like law school (ie. should I worry about developing efficient research skills in the next month?).

Thanks.

1. I do most of my research using Westlaw/Lexis, although I do use secondary sources (e.g., Nimmer on Copyright; Wright & Miller's Federal Practice & Procedure) a fair bit also.

2. I have no idea how the court pays for/is charged for Westlaw/Lexis access. Whatever that arrangement is, it does not affect how I use the services. Basically, I just treat both as unlimited and free, just as in law school, and do what I need to do. Efficiency is thus unimportant as a cost measure. It is, however, important in terms of getting your work done in a timely fashion.

The DDC has access to both Lexis & Westlaw, and it's a flat fee so you don't have to pay for each separate thing.

[Anonymous User]

First of all, thank you so much for this thread. I know you're less able to comment on district clerkships, so I'd invite anyone else who'd like to weigh in as well.

My situation: I'm at HLS, extremely mediocre grades (all P's with a couple of H's, maybe some more coming in from this spring), secondary journal (no masthead), no publications, 1L summer DA's office / 2L summer state AG. I have one pretty good faculty rec and two faculty recs that are just okay, and I'm expecting one very good practitioner rec from my 1L summer.

I'm going for federal district (plus magistrates and state courts), and I realize I need to apply broadly to make that happen. The problem is, most of my geographic ties lie within the N.D.Cal. It's my understanding that ties don't matter quite as much for federal clerkships, but that leaves the question of how to narrow the field a bit. On one hand, I can't think of many places I would never work in, and on the other hand, 'going home' doesn't help me a whole lot. Any help making sense of this whole process would be much appreciated!

[Clurking2011]

(5) You have answered this somewhat, but I thought I should ask it outright: Is sending a casenote that has been published alright for a writing sample (the entire note)? Or should I send something else because the note is available on westlaw and the cite is my resume?

I think many judges are completely fine with a published casenote, but I would avoid using that version if you can. If you have an earlier draft that reflects only your own writing and editing, that would be best. The whole thing is fine, too--although I think earlier in this thread I suggested breaking off a piece dedicated to legal analysis, which is something a lot of applicants do as well. Whatever you choose to do, attach a cover page explaining what the piece is about, whether it has been edited by others, etc.

If I had to choose between (1) a published casenote, which was edited by the journal's staff, or (2) an appellate brief written for a class, which do you think would be best?

Thanks in advance for any guidance!

[Anonymous User]

Thanks a lot for answering questions G T L Rev. Very helpful. I was wondering if you could assess my chances at federal district court. Do you think getting a clerkship for a magistrate is significantly easier than for a normal district court judge? I am planning on applying to a bunch of state court clerkships as well.

-Top quarter at T30 (3.4) with much higher GPA during 2L than 1L (and during 2L took a bunch of curved classes like admin & crim pro)
-Ed board of law review
-2L summer at DOJ
-Fall 3L externship w/ federal magistrate
-3 solid recs: 2 from professors (one for whom I was RA, one from class) and one from 1L summer job at NGO

Thanks again, I appreciate it.

Also, do you think using a write-on competition submission as a writing sample is legit? In my case it's a lot better than my LR note.

[Anonymous User]

First of all, thank you so much for this thread. I know you're less able to comment on district clerkships, so I'd invite anyone else who'd like to weigh in as well.

My situation: I'm at HLS, extremely mediocre grades (all P's with a couple of H's, maybe some more coming in from this spring), secondary journal (no masthead), no publications, 1L summer DA's office / 2L summer state AG. I have one pretty good faculty rec and two faculty recs that are just okay, and I'm expecting one very good practitioner rec from my 1L summer.

I'm going for federal district (plus magistrates and state courts), and I realize I need to apply broadly to make that happen. The problem is, most of my geographic ties lie within the N.D.Cal. It's my understanding that ties don't matter quite as much for federal clerkships, but that leaves the question of how to narrow the field a bit. On one hand, I can't think of many places I would never work in, and on the other hand, 'going home' doesn't help me a whole lot. Any help making sense of this whole process would be much appreciated!

I just went through the clerkship application process from HLS.

I would just apply everywhere in OSCAR where you would be willing to live, and then maybe be more selective with your paper applications because you need to pay for them. To be totally honest, your grades right now are on the low end for district court clerkships. Some of my friends did land clerkships with similar grades, but they usually had some kind of special connection to the judge (i.e. from an area where ties are really important or had a relative who knew the judge, etc.). OCS can give you good advice on which kinds of judges to target, but my bet would be that you should focus pretty heavily on state court and magistrate judges. (I'm sorry if that's pessimistic, just trying to be frank from what I observed in the past cycle).

[Anonymous User]

I just went through the clerkship application process from HLS.

I would just apply everywhere in OSCAR where you would be willing to live, and then maybe be more selective with your paper applications because you need to pay for them. To be totally honest, your grades right now are on the low end for district court clerkships. Some of my friends did land clerkships with similar grades, but they usually had some kind of special connection to the judge (i.e. from an area where ties are really important or had a relative who knew the judge, etc.). OCS can give you good advice on which kinds of judges to target, but my bet would be that you should focus pretty heavily on state court and magistrate judges. (I'm sorry if that's pessimistic, just trying to be frank from what I observed in the past cycle).

No, thanks for being honest. For my grades, OCS lists Circuit/popular districts/Mass SJC as reach judges, and smaller districts/state supreme/federal specialty and magistrate as target. But then, last year in EIP I imploded due in part to listening to OCS's recommendations, so yes, I think lowballing a bit is a good idea.

[Anonymous User]

No, thanks for being honest. For my grades, OCS lists Circuit/popular districts/Mass SJC as reach judges, and smaller districts/state supreme/federal specialty and magistrate as target. But then, last year in EIP I imploded due in part to listening to OCS's recommendations, so yes, I think lowballing a bit is a good idea.

Have you met with Kirsten Solberg yet? If not, you should make an appointment with her. She is one of the few at OCS, at least in my experience, who really knows what she is doing and gives good, personalized advice. (And completely anecdotally, pretty much all of my friends who took her advice very seriously and applied exactly as she recommended secured clerkships, while the two of my friends who ignored her advice came up empty-handed).

[Anonymous User]

did you have to undergo a background check? was it similar to the ones they do at DoJ? thanks

[npe]

What do you think about using a bench memo written as part of an LRW teaching assistant position as a writing sample? Don't know if it would come across as not academic enough, or if it would be viewed more positively given it was written for a "judge."

[aam1980]

Did the background check involve an employment history check? If so, how far back did it go?

[Clurking2011]

Did the background check involve an employment history check? If so, how far back did it go?

It will go back 10 or 7 years (depending on the level of clearance required, I think) or your 18th birthday, whichever is closer to today.

[aam1980]

Thanks for responding, I guess what I am really wondering is if you fill out the form SF-85 (for a judge that doesn't require a security clearance) or if you use a different form since this is in the judiciary? I'm interested because I worked in several locations overseas before law school, and I've heard that if they have to go back far enough to reach those employers/residences then the check can take a long time and I should maybe go ahead and ask to get the ball rolling before I start in the fall? Thanks again.

[Anonymous User]

So I'm a very nontraditional applicant. I've been out of law school for the better part of a decade. Top 5 school, editor of a secondary journal, published student comment (that has since been cited a few times), and based on honors designations, top quarter -- but not top 10% -- of the unranked class. I didn't even try to clerk because (1) firms were paying close to $100k more at that time, and (2) I was stupid. I worked at a Vault 20 firm for about half the time since graduation, and a non-firm employer for the rest of the time. I've been lead counsel in some pretty interesting cases resulting in several published decisions, some of which garnered media attention.

I decided a while back that I wanted to try to move to academia. I have since been pursuing that on two tracks. First, I started writing, and a Top 50 general law review is publishing my first article this fall. Second, I've been looking for a job that is a little better suited to an academic job search (i.e., clerkship, staff attorney, maybe AUSA). Well, a judge called last week to schedule an interview, and it occurs to me that I know nothing about the clerkship application process. So here are a few questions:

1.) I'm told to bring "writing samples." First, how many? Second, what? If I'm limiting this to really well-written stuff, I can produce recent state court briefs, federal briefs from a few years back, a mock judicial opinion from close to five years ago that I prepared in connection with a staff [url=https://www.bcgsearch.com/attorney-jobs/jobs.html]attorney job[/url] application (I was the second choice, and when they called back a few months later, I had already accepted a new job elsewhere), or my accepted article (50+ pages though!).

2.) I'm told to bring contact info for references (they don't want letters). Again, how many? And who? The obvious choices are old bosses who liked me. But I also have a guy who has been opposing or co-counsel in several cases who has offered to be a reference if I'm ever looking. And there is the former colleague who is now a bigwig in legal circles (think high profile professor or COA judge), but who never actually supervised me. And of course, I could give them a few professors' names, though they probably have mostly forgotten me by now.

Assume that for these first two questions, I either asked and the response was ambiguous, or I forgot to ask and don't want to bother them.

3.) What is the usual interview:opening ratio? In other words, if I'm an interviewee, do I have a 10% chance? A 25% chance? A 50% chance?

4.) Is it realistic to "parlay" interviews if the other opening is a several hour drive away, but you live on the other side of the country? So, hypothetically, should someone from New York try to parlay an interview in LA to one in SF?

Alright, I've gone on long enough. Thanks in advance!