Best and worst judges to clerk for Forum

[Anonymous User]

I clerked for Judge Ikuta. She has good intentions and clerks learn a lot. However, working for someone as anxious as she is and who emphasizes what others might think to such unhealthy levels, is ultimately unsustainable. Like so many other talented lawyers, she is not an effective leader. If you have the grades to get her clerkship you can get a better one. She has sent I believe 2 or 3 clerks to the Supreme Court and some of those had those clerkships lined up before coming to her. By my lights it is not worth dealing with her insecurities for a minuscule chance she might refer you to the Supreme Court.

[Anonymous User]

I clerked for Judge Ikuta. She has good intentions and clerks learn a lot. However, working for someone as anxious as she is and who emphasizes what others might think to such unhealthy levels, is ultimately unsustainable. Like so many other talented lawyers, she is not an effective leader. If you have the grades to get her clerkship you can get a better one. She has sent I believe 2 or 3 clerks to the Supreme Court and some of those had those clerkships lined up before coming to her. By my lights it is not worth dealing with her insecurities for a minuscule chance she might refer you to the Supreme Court.

Thanks, this jives perfectly with my interactions with Ikuta chambers, and makes a ton more sense than the secondhand criticism of her upthread. What's interesting is that despite this, she was the de facto intellectual leader of the conservatives during my year on the court (2018-19), which was the window between O'Scannlain going senior and the Trump cohort settling in. Judge Ikuta seemed to write most of the politically important en banc dissents and dissentals my year.

Judge Ikuta has fed only one clerk to a member of the current Court (CT in 2019). Right now the only active conservative feeder on the 9th is Judge Bress, and only to ACB (O'Scannlain fed two clerks as recently as OT 2021 but has no future feeds lined up, and seems like he may be paring back). Given this intel about the Ikuta experience, I might recommend FedSoc applicants who aren't competitive for Bress focus on someone with upside like Bumatay or Lee, a less-competitive but highly regarded senior like Bybee or Tallman, a year on the beach with Bennett, or Collins/VanDyke if you're harder to the right in ideology.

[Anonymous User]

Dan Collins, from afar, seems the best of the Trump CA9 judges, or at least in the same tier as Bress.

I didn't clerk for him, but my judge said Collins was one of the smartest people in the judiciary. And he seems like an extremely nice guy in personal interactions even if he's a little weird.

[Anonymous User]

I am the former Ikuta clerk from above. I don't know about the Trump appointees which I preceded, but I can assure that Bybee and Tallman are much better clerkship experiences than Ikuta.

[Anonymous User]

Dan Collins, from afar, seems the best of the Trump CA9 judges, or at least in the same tier as Bress.

I didn't clerk for him, but my judge said Collins was one of the smartest people in the judiciary. And he seems like an extremely nice guy in personal interactions even if he's a little weird.

Don't know too much about Judge Collins on a personal level, but based on interactions with his chambers I think working for him would be a nightmare, at least for me. He is far, far, far behind on his caseload; he takes months to write even simple memorandum dispositions. His pace has angered quite a few judges on the court, even those who are otherwise ideologically aligned with him. I imagine a clerkship for him is one with many, many memos on tertiary issues and many, many drafts of even straightforward opinions. He's definitely smart, and sometimes his effort pays off--I've seen him flip panels based on off-the-wall theories that no one else caught. But for the most part his pontificating is a waste of time, and his painstaking research can lead him to some odd places (see, e.g., his vaccination status). I also cannot imagine that his quirks translate to strong leadership/office management skills, which--depending on your co-clerks and JA--can end up creating a lot of problems in a year.

Judge Collins's style may work for some people, and I haven't heard anything about him mistreating clerks. But of the Trump CA9 judges, Judge Collins would be the last I would want to clerk for.

[Anonymous User]

I am the former Ikuta clerk from above. I don't know about the Trump appointees which I preceded, but I can assure that Bybee and Tallman are much better clerkship experiences than Ikuta.

Bybee and Tallman are both reportedly great, 10/10 bosses so this is not saying much. Of the Trump appointees, I have heard universally positive things about Miller, Lee, and Bumatay and mostly positive things about Bade, Bennett, and Bress (who is the only prospective feeder among the Trump appointees and works very, very hard). I know extremely little about Forrest and have heard mostly negative things about Nelson, VanDyke, and Collins (though Collins is certainly the sharpest of the three).

[Anonymous User]

I am the former Ikuta clerk from above. I don't know about the Trump appointees which I preceded, but I can assure that Bybee and Tallman are much better clerkship experiences than Ikuta.

Bybee and Tallman are both reportedly great, 10/10 bosses so this is not saying much. Of the Trump appointees, I have heard universally positive things about Miller, Lee, and Bumatay and mostly positive things about Bade, Bennett, and Bress (who is the only prospective feeder among the Trump appointees and works very, very hard). I know extremely little about Forrest and have heard mostly negative things about Nelson, VanDyke, and Collins (though Collins is certainly the sharpest of the three).

Will add that Judge Forrest is a great boss who works very hard. She's introverted in large groups, but she makes an effort to really get to know her clerks.

[Anonymous User]

Dan Collins, from afar, seems the best of the Trump CA9 judges, or at least in the same tier as Bress.

I didn't clerk for him, but my judge said Collins was one of the smartest people in the judiciary. And he seems like an extremely nice guy in personal interactions even if he's a little weird.

Don't know too much about Judge Collins on a personal level, but based on interactions with his chambers I think working for him would be a nightmare, at least for me. He is far, far, far behind on his caseload; he takes months to write even simple memorandum dispositions. His pace has angered quite a few judges on the court, even those who are otherwise ideologically aligned with him. I imagine a clerkship for him is one with many, many memos on tertiary issues and many, many drafts of even straightforward opinions. He's definitely smart, and sometimes his effort pays off--I've seen him flip panels based on off-the-wall theories that no one else caught. But for the most part his pontificating is a waste of time, and his painstaking research can lead him to some odd places (see, e.g., his vaccination status). I also cannot imagine that his quirks translate to strong leadership/office management skills, which--depending on your co-clerks and JA--can end up creating a lot of problems in a year.

Judge Collins's style may work for some people, and I haven't heard anything about him mistreating clerks. But of the Trump CA9 judges, Judge Collins would be the last I would want to clerk for.

I talked to several of his former clerks and his then-current clerks when I was applying last year. (I didn’t get the offer.) The impression they gave me was that, while his slowness might rub people in other chambers the wrong way, it doesn’t really actually affect his own clerks, whom he treats very well. I didn’t get the sense that he sends them down rabbit holes to check tertiary issues; nobody mentioned anything resembling that to me. And while he does give detailed feedback, especially on public-facing work product, it didn’t sound any more belabored than the typical judge. Basically, it sounded like Collins holds himself to extremely high standards but treats his clerks well.

I’m not sure what quirks he has—none of the clerks I talked to mentioned anything notable—but from my (admittedly limited) personal interactions with him he seems like a nice and normal person.

[Anonymous User]

Don't know too much about Judge Collins on a personal level, but based on interactions with his chambers I think working for him would be a nightmare, at least for me. He is far, far, far behind on his caseload; he takes months to write even simple memorandum dispositions. His pace has angered quite a few judges on the court, even those who are otherwise ideologically aligned with him. I imagine a clerkship for him is one with many, many memos on tertiary issues and many, many drafts of even straightforward opinions. He's definitely smart, and sometimes his effort pays off--I've seen him flip panels based on off-the-wall theories that no one else caught. But for the most part his pontificating is a waste of time, and his painstaking research can lead him to some odd places (see, e.g., his vaccination status). I also cannot imagine that his quirks translate to strong leadership/office management skills, which--depending on your co-clerks and JA--can end up creating a lot of problems in a year.

Judge Collins's style may work for some people, and I haven't heard anything about him mistreating clerks. But of the Trump CA9 judges, Judge Collins would be the last I would want to clerk for.

I talked to several of his former clerks and his then-current clerks when I was applying last year. (I didn’t get the offer.) The impression they gave me was that, while his slowness might rub people in other chambers the wrong way, it doesn’t really actually affect his own clerks, whom he treats very well. I didn’t get the sense that he sends them down rabbit holes to check tertiary issues; nobody mentioned anything resembling that to me. And while he does give detailed feedback, especially on public-facing work product, it didn’t sound any more belabored than the typical judge. Basically, it sounded like Collins holds himself to extremely high standards but treats his clerks well.

I’m not sure what quirks he has—none of the clerks I talked to mentioned anything notable—but from my (admittedly limited) personal interactions with him he seems like a nice and normal person.

I second this. I have heard that Collins is a great boss and that it is an enjoyable clerkship. He has a high standard for things like bench memos and unpublished opinions, but none of the clerks I've talked to have raised the types of criticisms that OP is raising. I do think it can be frustrating to sit on a panel with Collins, especially when he writes separately (as he often does), so I can totally see where OP is coming from. But by all accounts, Collins sounds like a nice and smart boss who treats his clerks well.

[Anonymous User]

Judge Collins is very smart. So is Judge Bress and so is Judge Bumatay.

These judges are substantially smarter than the Bush ninth circuit appointees which are typified by Judge Callahan and Judge Bea.

[Anonymous User]

Heard Garaufis (E.D.N.Y.) is a tough boss, yells, and is very demanding.

[Anonymous User]

Judge Collins is very smart. So is Judge Bress and so is Judge Bumatay.

These judges are substantially smarter than the Bush ninth circuit appointees which are typified by Judge Callahan and Judge Bea.

Judge Miller and Judge Lee are also very, very sharp. I think VanDyke is a lunatic but he is a very talented (if obnoxious) writer and is not dumb by any means.

[Anonymous User]

Judge Collins is very smart. So is Judge Bress and so is Judge Bumatay.

These judges are substantially smarter than the Bush ninth circuit appointees which are typified by Judge Callahan and Judge Bea.

Judge Miller and Judge Lee are also very, very sharp. I think VanDyke is a lunatic but he is a very talented (if obnoxious) writer and is not dumb by any means.

What about Judge Bennett?

[Anonymous User]

Judge Collins is very smart. So is Judge Bress and so is Judge Bumatay.

These judges are substantially smarter than the Bush ninth circuit appointees which are typified by Judge Callahan and Judge Bea.

Judge Miller and Judge Lee are also very, very sharp. I think VanDyke is a lunatic but he is a very talented (if obnoxious) writer and is not dumb by any means.

What about Judge Bennett?

He's kind of a poor man's Collins, but he's definitely sharp and I think he's supposed to be a good boss. Nelson is the only one of the Trump CA9 appointees who I regard as an intellectual lightweight.

[Anonymous User]

Judge Collins is very smart. So is Judge Bress and so is Judge Bumatay.

These judges are substantially smarter than the Bush ninth circuit appointees which are typified by Judge Callahan and Judge Bea.

Judge Miller and Judge Lee are also very, very sharp. I think VanDyke is a lunatic but he is a very talented (if obnoxious) writer and is not dumb by any means.

What about Judge Bennett?

He's kind of a poor man's Collins, but he's definitely sharp and I think he's supposed to be a good boss. Nelson is the only one of the Trump CA9 appointees who I regard as an intellectual lightweight.

He's not as conservative as Collins, but agree that he's a very smart guy and regarded as good boss. I would compare him to Bade and Lee among the Trump appointees (Miller is also brilliant but a bit more moderate than these).

[Anonymous User]

Judge Collins is very smart. So is Judge Bress and so is Judge Bumatay.

These judges are substantially smarter than the Bush ninth circuit appointees which are typified by Judge Callahan and Judge Bea.

Judge Miller and Judge Lee are also very, very sharp. I think VanDyke is a lunatic but he is a very talented (if obnoxious) writer and is not dumb by any means.

What about Judge Bennett?

He's kind of a poor man's Collins, but he's definitely sharp and I think he's supposed to be a good boss. Nelson is the only one of the Trump CA9 appointees who I regard as an intellectual lightweight.

Just curious, what persuaded you to believe Judge Bade is not an intellectual lightweight?

[Anonymous User]

How is Cogan (EDNY) as a boss? I know everyone says he has long hours, but could someone provide a more concrete description of what that amounts to in practice (i.e. where on the scale of normal biglaw hours to kozinski-esque 9:30-1:30 + heavy weekends do his clerks fall out)? Also, does anyone know how his going senior/being partially remote has affected the clerkship experience?

[Anonymous User]

I've heard he's on the avoid list. You're on call 24/7. You're expected to answer 1 or 2 am emails. One of the toughest Eastern District clerkships.

[Anonymous User]

Judge Collins is very smart. So is Judge Bress and so is Judge Bumatay.

These judges are substantially smarter than the Bush ninth circuit appointees which are typified by Judge Callahan and Judge Bea.

Judge Miller and Judge Lee are also very, very sharp. I think VanDyke is a lunatic but he is a very talented (if obnoxious) writer and is not dumb by any means.

What about Judge Bennett?

He's kind of a poor man's Collins, but he's definitely sharp and I think he's supposed to be a good boss. Nelson is the only one of the Trump CA9 appointees who I regard as an intellectual lightweight.

What has led to this reputation for Nelson?

[Anonymous User]

Judge Collins is very smart. So is Judge Bress and so is Judge Bumatay.

These judges are substantially smarter than the Bush ninth circuit appointees which are typified by Judge Callahan and Judge Bea.

I think there's a wide gap between Collins+Bress on one hand and Bumatay on the other. Bumatay is a more aggressive Callahan who's gotten good at playing to a supermajority Republican SCOTUS with en banc calls. The other two are on par with the brightest minds on any circuit in the country. That being said, Bumatay is supposed to be a fun boss. Collins and Bress don't strike me as fun.

[Anonymous User]

Judge Collins is very smart. So is Judge Bress and so is Judge Bumatay.

These judges are substantially smarter than the Bush ninth circuit appointees which are typified by Judge Callahan and Judge Bea.

I think there's a wide gap between Collins+Bress on one hand and Bumatay on the other. Bumatay is a more aggressive Callahan who's gotten good at playing to a supermajority Republican SCOTUS with en banc calls. The other two are on par with the brightest minds on any circuit in the country. That being said, Bumatay is supposed to be a fun boss. Collins and Bress don't strike me as fun.

On par with the brightest minds on any circuit in the country? Based on what? It would be helpful if people would substantiate their opinions when they say things like this, ideally with something more than "they clerked for SCOTUS." I cannot think of any memorable or impressive opinions from Judge Bress. He actually strikes me as stubborn and unimaginative.

[Anonymous User]

Outing myself because this thread is getting absurd. I am a current ninth circuit clerk who has worked with all the judges mentioned on this thread. Ikuta is not abrasive at all. She is sensitive, caring, gentle and gregarious. Bumatay is very thoughtful. He puts great care into complicated issues like the sixteenth amendment. And Miller is not smart, he's a total zero who doesn't even read the opinions he cites in cases which completely contradict his own points. Does not engage with doctrine.

[Anonymous User]

Outing myself because this thread is getting absurd. I am a current ninth circuit clerk who has worked with all the judges mentioned on this thread. Ikuta is not abrasive at all. She is sensitive, caring, gentle and gregarious. Bumatay is very thoughtful. He puts great care into complicated issues like the sixteenth amendment. And Miller is not smart, he's a total zero who doesn't even read the opinions he cites in cases which completely contradict his own points. Does not engage with doctrine.

Ha, for the first two thirds of your comment I was thinking "finally, an actual CA9 clerk here to refute people's personal grievances against random judges"...and then I got to the Miller point!

FWIW, my judge sat with both Ikuta and Miller during my clerkship and I found them both to be great judges. I did not interact with Bumatay or his chambers as he was brand new, but the opinions of his that I've read suggest he's indeed very bright and thoughtful.

[Anonymous User]

Same poster as just above. No I cannot emphasize enough how much of a dunce Miller is. Probably the least competent judge I've worked with across several clerkships. You are right about ikuta and bumatay though. Great judges.

[Anonymous User]

Outing myself because this thread is getting absurd. I am a current ninth circuit clerk who has worked with all the judges mentioned on this thread. Ikuta is not abrasive at all. She is sensitive, caring, gentle and gregarious. Bumatay is very thoughtful. He puts great care into complicated issues like the sixteenth amendment. And Miller is not smart, he's a total zero who doesn't even read the opinions he cites in cases which completely contradict his own points. Does not engage with doctrine.

Really surprising that Miller managed to graduate #1 overall at Chicago, work at all three of the most prestigious divisions of DOJ, chair a biglaw appellate practice, and have a rep as one of the highest-horsepower judges in the country despite being a "total zero" who is "not smart." Seems much more likely that you don't understand the law than that he doesn't.