Fall 2021 Post-Clerkship Hiring Forum

[Anonymous User]

Rumor has it that the NY lit shops are doing a ton of hiring this year -- I also personally have heard of a decent # of offers going out from various places, though I've only just started the interview process. Isn't this surprising? I would've thought COVID would've had the opposite effect, although I suppose folks are probably leaving for the government.

What is a "lit shop"? Do you mean a boutique? Those obviously are the exception and not the rule.

RE: interviews, I have only two boutique and one biglaw so far, despite blanketing the V100 months ago.

Similar situation here. Not sure the market is particularly hot right now. Also very possible that it hasn’t kicked off yet but will be hot. I guess also possible that it is hot but I’m being ignored, but I have pretty good credentials so that would be a little surprising.

[Anonymous User]

Rumor has it that the NY lit shops are doing a ton of hiring this year -- I also personally have heard of a decent # of offers going out from various places, though I've only just started the interview process. Isn't this surprising? I would've thought COVID would've had the opposite effect, although I suppose folks are probably leaving for the government.

What is a "lit shop"? Do you mean a boutique? Those obviously are the exception and not the rule.

RE: interviews, I have only two boutique and one biglaw so far, despite blanketing the V100 months ago.

Similar situation here. Not sure the market is particularly hot right now. Also very possible that it hasn’t kicked off yet but will be hot. I guess also possible that it is hot but I’m being ignored, but I have pretty good credentials so that would be a little surprising.

Anon with the first quote here. Yes (and apologies for lack of clarity) I meant boutiques; I've heard from a few friends at various of these firms that they are surprisingly looking to hire a fair amount of clerks, and anecdotally, I know of a ton of people coming off of clerkships who have in the past few weeks started to interview with and get offers with boutiques (let's say, 3-5 interviews apiece, on average). I do suspect this may be just beginning, given that this only started gearing up over the past two weeks. I have heard, though, through the same channels, that biglaw is far less active.

[Anonymous User]

Rumor has it that the NY lit shops are doing a ton of hiring this year -- I also personally have heard of a decent # of offers going out from various places, though I've only just started the interview process. Isn't this surprising? I would've thought COVID would've had the opposite effect, although I suppose folks are probably leaving for the government.

What is a "lit shop"? Do you mean a boutique? Those obviously are the exception and not the rule.

RE: interviews, I have only two boutique and one biglaw so far, despite blanketing the V100 months ago.

Similar situation here. Not sure the market is particularly hot right now. Also very possible that it hasn’t kicked off yet but will be hot. I guess also possible that it is hot but I’m being ignored, but I have pretty good credentials so that would be a little surprising.

Anon with the first quote here. Yes (and apologies for lack of clarity) I meant boutiques; I've heard from a few friends at various of these firms that they are surprisingly looking to hire a fair amount of clerks, and anecdotally, I know of a ton of people coming off of clerkships who have in the past few weeks started to interview with and get offers with boutiques (let's say, 3-5 interviews apiece, on average). I do suspect this may be just beginning, given that this only started gearing up over the past two weeks. I have heard, though, through the same channels, that biglaw is far less active.

Which boutiques? Thanks!

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone heard anything about Sidley DC?

[Anonymous User]

Hey everyone, I am going to be clerking at a COA starting in the fall (flyover country). I was going to keep my offer open, but my hiring partner is pushing me a little to accept. Weighing whether or not I should accept and take the bar stipend.

Is it unheard of to accept the offer (take the bar stipend) and then test the market a little? Also, do you think the hiring partner would be offended if I said something to the effect of "I would love to come back but would like to focus on my clerkship?"

Trying to figure out how to navigate this situation best. Would love to at least test my luck at some boutique plaintiff-side firms. If not, would be happy to go back to my summer associate firm.

[Anonymous User]

Hey everyone, I am going to be clerking at a COA starting in the fall (flyover country). I was going to keep my offer open, but my hiring partner is pushing me a little to accept. Weighing whether or not I should accept and take the bar stipend.

Is it unheard of to accept the offer (take the bar stipend) and then test the market a little? Also, do you think the hiring partner would be offended if I said something to the effect of "I would love to come back but would like to focus on my clerkship?"

Trying to figure out how to navigate this situation best. Would love to at least test my luck at some boutique plaintiff-side firms. If not, would be happy to go back to my summer associate firm.

Lock in the firm and make sure you have the money to pay the stipend if you find options and they try to come for it

[Anonymous User]

Hey everyone, I am going to be clerking at a COA starting in the fall (flyover country). I was going to keep my offer open, but my hiring partner is pushing me a little to accept. Weighing whether or not I should accept and take the bar stipend.

Is it unheard of to accept the offer (take the bar stipend) and then test the market a little? Also, do you think the hiring partner would be offended if I said something to the effect of "I would love to come back but would like to focus on my clerkship?"

Trying to figure out how to navigate this situation best. Would love to at least test my luck at some boutique plaintiff-side firms. If not, would be happy to go back to my summer associate firm.

Re the second question, you could say your judge doesn't allow you to accept offers till a later point in the clerkship. That's typical policy for many judges.

[Anonymous User]

How difficult is it to get into a generic big law firm in NYC/DC out of a clerkship?

Stats:
Top 10% at t50 school
U.S. District Ct. clerk in the south
2L SA at a regional mid-law firm
No professional connection to NYC or DC (only family connection)

Mostly just trying to see if I should be submitting applications to NYC/DC or sticking to southern cities like Miami, Atlanta, Charlotte, and Nashville (secondary markets).

[Anonymous User]

How difficult is it to get into a generic big law firm in NYC/DC out of a clerkship?

Stats:
Top 10% at t50 school
U.S. District Ct. clerk in the south
2L SA at a regional mid-law firm
No professional connection to NYC or DC (only family connection)

Mostly just trying to see if I should be submitting applications to NYC/DC or sticking to southern cities like Miami, Atlanta, Charlotte, and Nashville (secondary markets).

I think you probably could be competitive for generic biglaw in those cities normally, but reports on here seem to indicate that biglaw isn't too interested in clerks in general (nothing specific to you) right now. Also tbh why would you want to work NYC biglaw if you have strong connections to southern cities? Generic NYC biglaw kind of blows for complex/commercial and part the benefit of clerking is to get a leg up into more interesting things like boutiques, mid/biglaw in midsize markets like Miami or Nashville, government, etc.

[Anonymous User]

Is switching to corporate at all a possibility post-clerkship? Seems hiring is busier over there.

[Anonymous User]

Is switching to corporate at all a possibility post-clerkship? Seems hiring is busier over there.

I heard of this at my V5 where I summered. If you clerked for two years, you'd get class credit for just one year (unlike in lit, where you'd get both years).

Big law lit in NY and DC just moves later than boutique hiring for clerks, but I suspect it'll be fine. Don't know about other markets. For example, heard that one big law firm that leans lit will only start reviewing clerk apps soon, now that they're finishing up 2L recruiting.

[Anonymous User]

Is switching to corporate at all a possibility post-clerkship? Seems hiring is busier over there.

As someone trying to do this (hence the anon), I will say that there is some interest. However, I think you need to develop a compelling story. Moreover, I will say that while there appears to be great interest in hiring corporate attorneys who could start next month, firms seem more hesitant to hire corporate attorneys to begin in 8 months. They just aren't thinking that far in advance, at least in my market.

[purplegoldtornado]

Should those of us considering clerkships be wary of not getting a job to the extent that it’s not worth it to apply? I’m an incoming SA, but reading this thread, I’m almost scared to try to get a clerkship after hearing some of the stories.

[Anonymous User]

Should those of us considering clerkships be wary of not getting a job to the extent that it’s not worth it to apply? I’m an incoming SA, but reading this thread, I’m almost scared to try to get a clerkship after hearing some of the stories.

From friends at big law firms in DC/NY, these firms are moving slower and some are only *starting* to review, now that 2L recruiting has wrapped up. Kirkland and W&C are exceptions. And the boutiques are on their own earlier timelines. Of course, covid has probably depressed jobs somewhat, but in this unusual year with unusual recruiting timelines, it's too early to conclude the clerk market is done. It'll pick up!

[Internationalist]

Should those of us considering clerkships be wary of not getting a job to the extent that it’s not worth it to apply? I’m an incoming SA, but reading this thread, I’m almost scared to try to get a clerkship after hearing some of the stories.

From friends at big law firms in DC/NY, these firm are moving slower and some are only *starting* to review, now that 2L recruiting has wrapped up. Kirkland and W&C are exceptions. And the boutiques are on their own earlier timelines. Of course, covid has probably depressed jobs somewhat, but in this unusual year with unusual recruiting timelines, it's too early to conclude the clerk market is done. It'll pick up!

This, the delayed 2L OCI seems to have screwed things up. OCI takes up A LOT of firm resources, especially since everyone is having to adjust to it being virtual. My friends at firms are still super busy, so I have to believe things will pick up soon.

[Anonymous User]

Should those of us considering clerkships be wary of not getting a job to the extent that it’s not worth it to apply? I’m an incoming SA, but reading this thread, I’m almost scared to try to get a clerkship after hearing some of the stories.

I would not recommend clerking. Stay at your firm for a few years 3-5) and then clerk if you must, understanding that you may not be able to return to a big firm. Use that time to go do what you want to in life.

[Anonymous User]

Should those of us considering clerkships be wary of not getting a job to the extent that it’s not worth it to apply? I’m an incoming SA, but reading this thread, I’m almost scared to try to get a clerkship after hearing some of the stories.

I would not recommend clerking. Stay at your firm for a few years 3-5) and then clerk if you must, understanding that you may not be able to return to a big firm. Use that time to go do what you want to in life.

What a controversial but interesting take. Care to elaborate?

[Anonymous User]

Damn, I'm a CCN student about to begin clerking, should I be worried that I've screwed myself out of a job? Summered at a V5 firm.

[Anonymous User]

Should those of us considering clerkships be wary of not getting a job to the extent that it’s not worth it to apply? I’m an incoming SA, but reading this thread, I’m almost scared to try to get a clerkship after hearing some of the stories.

I would not recommend clerking. Stay at your firm for a few years 3-5) and then clerk if you must, understanding that you may not be able to return to a big firm. Use that time to go do what you want to in life.

What a controversial but interesting take. Care to elaborate?

I have excellent grades, did well at both firms I worked at, have two good clerkships. Neither firm took me back when I tried to return (one is currently fucked by covid, previous one was pushing juniors into funds because their lit group wasn’t doing anything) and the hiring market has sucked each time I have done it. If I hadn’t clerked I’d still be making V10 money and be a very competitive applicant for the jobs I want. Instead I have a spotty resume, less money, and job insecurity. Woohoo!

[Anonymous User]

Should those of us considering clerkships be wary of not getting a job to the extent that it’s not worth it to apply? I’m an incoming SA, but reading this thread, I’m almost scared to try to get a clerkship after hearing some of the stories.

I would not recommend clerking. Stay at your firm for a few years 3-5) and then clerk if you must, understanding that you may not be able to return to a big firm. Use that time to go do what you want to in life.

What a controversial but interesting take. Care to elaborate?

I have excellent grades, did well at both firms I worked at, have two good clerkships. Neither firm took me back when I tried to return (one is currently fucked by covid, previous one was pushing juniors into funds because their lit group wasn’t doing anything) and the hiring market has sucked each time I have done it. If I hadn’t clerked I’d still be making V10 money and be a very competitive applicant for the jobs I want. Instead I have a spotty resume, less money, and job insecurity. Woohoo!

This is my nightmare. V10's really aren't taking back clerks?!

[Anonymous User]

Should those of us considering clerkships be wary of not getting a job to the extent that it’s not worth it to apply? I’m an incoming SA, but reading this thread, I’m almost scared to try to get a clerkship after hearing some of the stories.

I would not recommend clerking. Stay at your firm for a few years 3-5) and then clerk if you must, understanding that you may not be able to return to a big firm. Use that time to go do what you want to in life.

What a controversial but interesting take. Care to elaborate?

I have excellent grades, did well at both firms I worked at, have two good clerkships. Neither firm took me back when I tried to return (one is currently fucked by covid, previous one was pushing juniors into funds because their lit group wasn’t doing anything) and the hiring market has sucked each time I have done it. If I hadn’t clerked I’d still be making V10 money and be a very competitive applicant for the jobs I want. Instead I have a spotty resume, less money, and job insecurity. Woohoo!

This is my nightmare. V10's really aren't taking back clerks?!

Shocked me too. Honestly I’m getting pretty depressed because it’s now beginning to look like no one will work with me despite the fact that I got good reviews (glowing ones at the second place) and it’s hard to explain when I interview. If I hadn’t clerked (or stopped after the first, though I got the second clerkship during the first and before I knew I wasn’t going back to the V10) I’d be in a far better position

[Anonymous User]

Should those of us considering clerkships be wary of not getting a job to the extent that it’s not worth it to apply? I’m an incoming SA, but reading this thread, I’m almost scared to try to get a clerkship after hearing some of the stories.

I would not recommend clerking. Stay at your firm for a few years 3-5) and then clerk if you must, understanding that you may not be able to return to a big firm. Use that time to go do what you want to in life.

What a controversial but interesting take. Care to elaborate?

I have excellent grades, did well at both firms I worked at, have two good clerkships. Neither firm took me back when I tried to return (one is currently fucked by covid, previous one was pushing juniors into funds because their lit group wasn’t doing anything) and the hiring market has sucked each time I have done it. If I hadn’t clerked I’d still be making V10 money and be a very competitive applicant for the jobs I want. Instead I have a spotty resume, less money, and job insecurity. Woohoo!

This is my nightmare. V10's really aren't taking back clerks?!

Shocked me too. Honestly I’m getting pretty depressed because it’s now beginning to look like no one will work with me despite the fact that I got good reviews (glowing ones at the second place) and it’s hard to explain when I interview. If I hadn’t clerked (or stopped after the first, though I got the second clerkship during the first and before I knew I wasn’t going back to the V10) I’d be in a far better position

You went to your firm after summering there or spending a year or more there, said I'm coming back from a clerkship, and they said "sorry, no job for you" - that's wild! Any sense of market/school?

[Anonymous User]

Should those of us considering clerkships be wary of not getting a job to the extent that it’s not worth it to apply? I’m an incoming SA, but reading this thread, I’m almost scared to try to get a clerkship after hearing some of the stories.

I would not recommend clerking. Stay at your firm for a few years 3-5) and then clerk if you must, understanding that you may not be able to return to a big firm. Use that time to go do what you want to in life.

What a controversial but interesting take. Care to elaborate?

I have excellent grades, did well at both firms I worked at, have two good clerkships. Neither firm took me back when I tried to return (one is currently fucked by covid, previous one was pushing juniors into funds because their lit group wasn’t doing anything) and the hiring market has sucked each time I have done it. If I hadn’t clerked I’d still be making V10 money and be a very competitive applicant for the jobs I want. Instead I have a spotty resume, less money, and job insecurity. Woohoo!

This is my nightmare. V10's really aren't taking back clerks?!

Shocked me too. Honestly I’m getting pretty depressed because it’s now beginning to look like no one will work with me despite the fact that I got good reviews (glowing ones at the second place) and it’s hard to explain when I interview. If I hadn’t clerked (or stopped after the first, though I got the second clerkship during the first and before I knew I wasn’t going back to the V10) I’d be in a far better position

I'm the person who asked you to elaborate. I'm sorry to hear that OP. That sounds tough. The only word of comfort I'd be able to give is from other second-hand accounts and from my friends, who are involved in recruiting in BL this year, who all seem to say that clerkship hiring might rebound later this year. With OCI being postponed and all, hiring seems really wonky. I'm sure there will be a time and place for clerks eventually.

More generally, I've spoken to many practitioners at my firm that clerked leading up to '08 and '09 -- and you can imagine how screwed they were when they finished. All have said that, in the long term, their clerkship was certainly worth it--for the prestige and the benefits that its provided them during practice, even if the benefits were not felt nearly as soon as they had hoped. All this to say, even if it sucks right now OP, think of the long term. So few litigators can claim to have the credentials that you have, which are far above and beyond what most can claim. Don't let what is happening right now make you think you're screwed for eternity.

[Anonymous User]

Should those of us considering clerkships be wary of not getting a job to the extent that it’s not worth it to apply? I’m an incoming SA, but reading this thread, I’m almost scared to try to get a clerkship after hearing some of the stories.

I would not recommend clerking. Stay at your firm for a few years 3-5) and then clerk if you must, understanding that you may not be able to return to a big firm. Use that time to go do what you want to in life.

What a controversial but interesting take. Care to elaborate?

I have excellent grades, did well at both firms I worked at, have two good clerkships. Neither firm took me back when I tried to return (one is currently fucked by covid, previous one was pushing juniors into funds because their lit group wasn’t doing anything) and the hiring market has sucked each time I have done it. If I hadn’t clerked I’d still be making V10 money and be a very competitive applicant for the jobs I want. Instead I have a spotty resume, less money, and job insecurity. Woohoo!

This is my nightmare. V10's really aren't taking back clerks?!

Shocked me too. Honestly I’m getting pretty depressed because it’s now beginning to look like no one will work with me despite the fact that I got good reviews (glowing ones at the second place) and it’s hard to explain when I interview. If I hadn’t clerked (or stopped after the first, though I got the second clerkship during the first and before I knew I wasn’t going back to the V10) I’d be in a far better position

You went to your firm after summering there or spending a year or more there, said I'm coming back from a clerkship, and they said "sorry, no job for you" - that's wild! Any sense of market/school?

I’ll come back and answer these things after (if) I’ve nailed a job down as I’m a bit worried about anonymity.

[Anonymous User]

Should those of us considering clerkships be wary of not getting a job to the extent that it’s not worth it to apply? I’m an incoming SA, but reading this thread, I’m almost scared to try to get a clerkship after hearing some of the stories.

I would not recommend clerking. Stay at your firm for a few years 3-5) and then clerk if you must, understanding that you may not be able to return to a big firm. Use that time to go do what you want to in life.

What a controversial but interesting take. Care to elaborate?

I have excellent grades, did well at both firms I worked at, have two good clerkships. Neither firm took me back when I tried to return (one is currently fucked by covid, previous one was pushing juniors into funds because their lit group wasn’t doing anything) and the hiring market has sucked each time I have done it. If I hadn’t clerked I’d still be making V10 money and be a very competitive applicant for the jobs I want. Instead I have a spotty resume, less money, and job insecurity. Woohoo!

This is my nightmare. V10's really aren't taking back clerks?!

Shocked me too. Honestly I’m getting pretty depressed because it’s now beginning to look like no one will work with me despite the fact that I got good reviews (glowing ones at the second place) and it’s hard to explain when I interview. If I hadn’t clerked (or stopped after the first, though I got the second clerkship during the first and before I knew I wasn’t going back to the V10) I’d be in a far better position

I'm the person who asked you to elaborate. I'm sorry to hear that OP. That sounds tough. The only word of comfort I'd be able to give is from other second-hand accounts and from my friends, who are involved in recruiting in BL this year, who all seem to say that clerkship hiring might rebound later this year. With OCI being postponed and all, hiring seems really wonky. I'm sure there will be a time and place for clerks eventually.

More generally, I've spoken to many practitioners at my firm that clerked leading up to '08 and '09 -- and you can imagine how screwed they were when they finished. All have said that, in the long term, their clerkship was certainly worth it--for the prestige and the benefits that its provided them during practice, even if the benefits were not felt nearly as soon as they had hoped. All this to say, even if it sucks right now OP, think of the long term. So few litigators can claim to have the credentials that you have, which are far above and beyond what most can claim. Don't let what is happening right now make you think you're screwed for eternity.

Thanks. Yeah, I have loved clerking. If I land a decent job (and things look better than I have said here, got two potential offers looking pretty good though not NYC big law) and have secure employment I’ll look back on this as an unfortunately stressful time that ultimately was worth it. I just don’t want people thinking they’ll clerk and then stroll into any office in NYC and get given a job because they may end up in my position. It’s just annoying because to me it seems like I did everything I could at every place I could but a couple hiring decisions and a poorly timed economic thing is really fucking me. But enough moping; I’m giving up social media for lent so hopefully I’ll be back with good news in a few months