2019-2020 Post-Clerkship Hiring Forum

[Anonymous User]

WC Ding. Blaming the pandemic.

[Anonymous User]

How much should we be worried? COA clerk asking.

[Anonymous User]

How much should we be worried? COA clerk asking.

I'm mildly worried. I'm not panicking yet, since the peak isn't supposed to be that far away. The good news is that even the most extreme doom and gloom economists expect the economy to rebound toward the end of 2020 or beginning of 21. And hopefully this huge government stimulus package will help that out.

[Anonymous User]

How much should we be worried? COA clerk asking.

I'm not a natural pessimist but I am expecting to be unemployed for 6-8 months after my COA clerkship finishes this year. I think the law firm layoffs are inevitable soon.

[Anonymous User]

How much should we be worried? COA clerk asking.

My fear (which may or may not be accurate, no idea) is less that there will be a massive hiring freeze or layoff extravaganza (although if this happens I wouldn't be terribly surprised) and more that a lot of firms will decide that this is the year not to hire their usual retinue of 1-5 clerks. It doesn't take a whole lot of firms to decide not to hire laterals/clerks before there're too many of us COA clerks for the market to bear.

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone heard of any rescinded offers?

[Anonymous User]

None here.

In case it gives anyone any ideas, I asked the two firms from which I have outstanding offers whether they'd be willing to agree not to rescind the offer, defer my start date, or do a purely-economic layoff within 6 months of my starting. Got an expected "lol no" from one. The other has been sitting on the request for several days and my recruiting contact said she is "working on it," so fingers crossed. I figure it's a moon shot but worth trying now while things are not in full-on crisis mode. Although I have a preference between the firms if either/both go the same direction, if one agrees and one doesn't I'll absolutely be taking that offer -- would be too good to pass up given the current uncertainty.

May you all have better luck than me if you try it

[Anonymous User]

Any thoughts on sending out additional applications? I'm still waiting to hear back from a good amount of firms, but am getting anxious. Would it be best to send out additional applications ASAP or hold off until the picture becomes clearer? I'm leaning towards sending out new applications ASAP, but wonder if there could be a benefit to waiting. For example, would it look like I'm "panic applying" if a firm sees my application coming in now?

[Anonymous User]

Any thoughts on sending out additional applications? I'm still waiting to hear back from a good amount of firms, but am getting anxious. Would it be best to send out additional applications ASAP or hold off until the picture becomes clearer? I'm leaning towards sending out new applications ASAP, but wonder if there could be a benefit to waiting. For example, would it look like I'm "panic applying" if a firm sees my application coming in now?

It's possible that they'll see it as a panic apply, but I think that would largely depend on what move you're trying to make and what explanation you put in your cover letter. If you're applying to firms of similar caliber in the same market, it could (?) look like panic applying, I suppose, but at the same time, if you're applying to firms of the same caliber in the same market, that's pretty stupid panic applying because you'd probably just be jumping ships to a firm just as likely to say see ya in a couple of months as the firm you already have an offer at.

I think another danger is your application just getting lost in the shuffle right now when firm management is (likely) more focused on a lot of other important decisions more important than clerk hiring. I think that will settle in a couple of weeks when it becomes more clear how long the trajectory of this chaos is going to be. Hard to balance that with the potential that you miss the boat on whatever firms see enough stability in their own business that they're comfortable continuing to hire and use this as an opportunity to eat up talent while other firms sleep, so I still understand your tendency to shoot them off now.

[Anonymous User]

Accepted an offer at Gibson Dunn (DC). Declined offers from Williams & Connolly and Sidley Austin (DC). Good luck, all!

[Anonymous User]

Accepted an offer at Gibson Dunn (DC). Declined offers from Williams & Connolly and Sidley Austin (DC). Good luck, all!

Very curious to hear your reasoning (even just briefly) for picking Gibson over W&C, if you're willing to share some thoughts?

[Anonymous User]

Accepted an offer at Gibson Dunn (DC). Declined offers from Williams & Connolly and Sidley Austin (DC). Good luck, all!

Very curious to hear your reasoning (even just briefly) for picking Gibson over W&C, if you're willing to share some thoughts?

It came down to "fit." Others might make a different choice (and I almost did), but for me the pluses for GDC were that it is more appeals-focused than W&C is, it has more admin-law work than W&C does, and its political valence is more in line with mine than W&C's is.

[Anonymous User]

Anon from the last page with HH LA and GDC LA offers -- accepted the HH offer. Good luck, all!

[Anonymous User]

Anyone else just kind of getting gloomy and depressed about all of this? I had a bunch of interviews a little bit before the coronavirus shut down happened and have heard nothing. I don't know if I should assume these are all de facto rejections or if I should keep waiting and hoping.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone else just kind of getting gloomy and depressed about all of this? I had a bunch of interviews a little bit before the coronavirus shut down happened and have heard nothing. I don't know if I should assume these are all de facto rejections or if I should keep waiting and hoping.

For what it's worth, so did I; and I am not assuming de facto rejections. I think firms just have higher priorities at the moment. Hopefully, in a month or two, they'll come back to this and we'll start hearing from them again.

I mean, I am also gloomy and depressed about all this, but trying to be rational!

[Anonymous User]

Anyone else just kind of getting gloomy and depressed about all of this? I had a bunch of interviews a little bit before the coronavirus shut down happened and have heard nothing. I don't know if I should assume these are all de facto rejections or if I should keep waiting and hoping.

For what it's worth, so did I; and I am not assuming de facto rejections. I think firms just have higher priorities at the moment. Hopefully, in a month or two, they'll come back to this and we'll start hearing from them again.

I mean, I am also gloomy and depressed about all this, but trying to be rational!

Thanks for the reality check. Needed it.

[Anonymous User]

I strongly encourage anyone with an open offer to take it. I accepted an outstanding offer recently (DC, big firm), and the recruiter told me that I was the last one in the door. Within the last week, two other well-regarded firms (both DC offices of national firms) told me that they're not making any offers for the foreseeable future. Things will get better eventually, but I would expect a hiring freeze for at least the next few months.

[Anonymous User]

Is anyone else who was planning on returning to their firm getting nervous? When I left my firm to clerk last year I was confident I could come back, but now I've been unable to get an answer from them. Given that hiring pretty much everywhere seems to have slowed down or frozen I'm not really sure what my other options would be, besides maybe looking for another clerkship.

[Anonymous User]

Should we assume hiring will “pick up” any time this summer? We pretty much lost out on peak hiring, and I’m not sure whether I should just temper expectations with what’s out there now or hold off for firms to start looking more broadly. Any thoughts?

[wwwcol]

Should we assume hiring will “pick up” any time this summer? We pretty much lost out on peak hiring, and I’m not sure whether I should just temper expectations with what’s out there now or hold off for firms to start looking more broadly. Any thoughts?

I think it’d be a mistake to assume hiring will pick up this year

[Anonymous User]

Should we assume hiring will “pick up” any time this summer? We pretty much lost out on peak hiring, and I’m not sure whether I should just temper expectations with what’s out there now or hold off for firms to start looking more broadly. Any thoughts?

I think it’d be a mistake to assume hiring will pick up this year

... I think this depends a little on what you mean by "pick up."

This is just my .02, but: right now, as far as I know, firms are not hiring *at all.* Everyone has hunkered down while the offices are shut. Some are explicitly saying they'll resume the process once the offices reopen; some are just hinting at it; some are total radio silence; some (based on layoffs etc.) are clearly not going to restart the process, whatever they're saying.

Now. If I had an outstanding offer, I would ABSOLUTELY take it. If I had done a d.ct. or COA clerkship, and had an interest in the other kind of clerkship, and could get it, I would ABSOLUTELY take it. I do not think the economy is going to bounce right back in a couple of months.

I think the hiring process will be both lower-volume and slower than it has historically been. I will also frankly be surprised if firms still give clerkship bonuses in the fall. But I do think there will be some movement this summer, as compared to the absolutely no movement I'm hearing/seeing right now. In that sense, it will "pick up."

[Anonymous User]

Anyone out there got a feel for the prospects of DE/SDNY bankruptcy clerks that are just about to start? My assumption is that I'm in a uniquely good position, but my term will be ending September 2021. No idea what hiring will look like in bankruptcy groups at that point, wondering if anyone else has a guess.

[Joachim2017]

Should we assume hiring will “pick up” any time this summer? We pretty much lost out on peak hiring, and I’m not sure whether I should just temper expectations with what’s out there now or hold off for firms to start looking more broadly. Any thoughts?

I think it’d be a mistake to assume hiring will pick up this year

... I think this depends a little on what you mean by "pick up."

This is just my .02, but: right now, as far as I know, firms are not hiring *at all.* Everyone has hunkered down while the offices are shut. Some are explicitly saying they'll resume the process once the offices reopen; some are just hinting at it; some are total radio silence; some (based on layoffs etc.) are clearly not going to restart the process, whatever they're saying.

Now. If I had an outstanding offer, I would ABSOLUTELY take it. If I had done a d.ct. or COA clerkship, and had an interest in the other kind of clerkship, and could get it, I would ABSOLUTELY take it. I do not think the economy is going to bounce right back in a couple of months.

I think the hiring process will be both lower-volume and slower than it has historically been. I will also frankly be surprised if firms still give clerkship bonuses in the fall. But I do think there will be some movement this summer, as compared to the absolutely no movement I'm hearing/seeing right now. In that sense, it will "pick up."

Did firms that ordinarily give clerkship bonuses leading up to / before the recession stop doing so for the few years within it? I actually think the top firms will continue the standard clerkship bonus. A few one-time $50K outlays budgeted in advance are not going to make/break those firms. TBC, I mean places like S&C or DPW or GDC; no idea about places lower down the list.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone out there got a feel for the prospects of DE/SDNY bankruptcy clerks that are just about to start? My assumption is that I'm in a uniquely good position, but my term will be ending September 2021. No idea what hiring will look like in bankruptcy groups at that point, wondering if anyone else has a guess.

BK associate in one of the bid debtor shops. I think you can assume that your prospects will be about what they would be in a normal year (which is to say, pretty good). Right now, we are buried in work, but not actively hiring (to the extent of my knowledge). September '21 is so far off, who knows what the state of the world will be.

But DE/SDNY bankruptcy clerks generally do pretty well. I think you'll find something good regardless.

[wwwcol]

Should we assume hiring will “pick up” any time this summer? We pretty much lost out on peak hiring, and I’m not sure whether I should just temper expectations with what’s out there now or hold off for firms to start looking more broadly. Any thoughts?

I think it’d be a mistake to assume hiring will pick up this year

... I think this depends a little on what you mean by "pick up."

This is just my .02, but: right now, as far as I know, firms are not hiring *at all.* Everyone has hunkered down while the offices are shut. Some are explicitly saying they'll resume the process once the offices reopen; some are just hinting at it; some are total radio silence; some (based on layoffs etc.) are clearly not going to restart the process, whatever they're saying.

Now. If I had an outstanding offer, I would ABSOLUTELY take it. If I had done a d.ct. or COA clerkship, and had an interest in the other kind of clerkship, and could get it, I would ABSOLUTELY take it. I do not think the economy is going to bounce right back in a couple of months.

I think the hiring process will be both lower-volume and slower than it has historically been. I will also frankly be surprised if firms still give clerkship bonuses in the fall. But I do think there will be some movement this summer, as compared to the absolutely no movement I'm hearing/seeing right now. In that sense, it will "pick up."

This is a thoughtful post. Fully agree.

I don’t know what to think about clerkship bonuses. There’s a first-mover problem since the market is currently at 50k. If one firm cuts the bonus and few follow, they’ll have to go back up or risk not getting clerks. (Or maybe that’s not true. If you assume 800 judges with two clerks each year that want biglaw, that’s 1600 applicants for probably less than 1600 big law clerk openings.)

Idk what the actual number is of clerks on the market each year. (Suspect it’s probably higher)