Penn Clerkship Discussion/Movement Forum

[Anonymous User]

What’s the best way to get a writing sample? Do I need to do keedy?

For district court applications, I used Keedy because it was an easy way to get a sample that hadn't been edited by others. Drawback was that Keedy briefs read a bit odd if you're a respondent because you don't have a brief to actually respond to.

For appellate applications, I used a paper I wrote for a seminar. LR folks often use their note.

Whatever route you take, make sure you are able to say it wasn't edited by anyone because many judges have that as a requirement.

[Anonymous User]

Any seminars to avoid or that have horrendous grading?

White collar crime

[Anonymous User]

Is Law Review important for clerking? I've heard mixed things from upperclassmen. Wasn't the c/o 2022 grad who got SCOTUS not on Law Review but rather a secondary journal.

[Anonymous User]

Is Law Review important for clerking? I've heard mixed things from upperclassmen. Wasn't the c/o 2022 grad who got SCOTUS not on Law Review but rather a secondary journal.

Lol don’t take her as a role model unless your godfather/mother has served as a scotus justice. She didn’t even graduate in the top 15%. But also, fedsoc judges don’t care about law review because they think the application process is woke and based on diversity. Many other judges do care.

[Anonymous User]

Is Law Review important for clerking? I've heard mixed things from upperclassmen. Wasn't the c/o 2022 grad who got SCOTUS not on Law Review but rather a secondary journal.

I would look at the spreadsheet for c/o 2022 and 2023 and compare it to the LR mastheads.

The c/o 2022 grad was Scalia’s goddaughter who worked her networks for her clerkships. Greene (c/o 2020) is more indicative of what would normally be required from Penn Law to get SCOTUS… aka she graduated first in her class. (She happened to also be an AE on LR.)

[Anonymous User]

Wow - the news article Penn put out about her seemed pretty middling

[Anonymous User]

I think a conservative justice might still consider a not-connected-to-Scalia Penn student on JCL if they were in the top three ish people in the class and put in the work to network, and at a certain point many judges will overlook LR if you have great grades. But Law Review definitely helps, especially for liberal/moderate judges.

[Anonymous User]

Wow - the news article Penn put out about her seemed pretty middling

Yeah, because the Penn communications office works to make Penn look good. And she would’ve gotten the clerkships from any solid law school, it had nothing to do with help she got from Penn, which doesn’t do much for Penn PR. Time to wake up and realize Penn paints itself as having all these resources to help you succeed because that’s how they get people to pay so much to come here. Even many non-SCOTUS Penn clerks are getting their jobs through connections that are not available to you.

[Anonymous User]

Touché. It’s all about who you know especially in the tough-to-get districts - and preexisting connections.

[Anonymous User]

How does one network for clerkships? Other than professors who don’t know anyone.

[Anonymous User]

How does one network for clerkships? Other than professors who don’t know anyone.

You can’t ask this question without specifying whether you’re a fedsoc candidate or willing to pretend to be one

[Anonymous User]

I am willing to play the fed soc game but I only want to clerk in the Northeast in a big city which I know is a little bit limiting. Also how do you play the fed soc game? Do you go to the weekly speeches and each their lunches and that’s it?

[Anonymous User]

I am willing to play the fed soc game but I only want to clerk in the Northeast in a big city which I know is a little bit limiting. Also how do you play the fed soc game? Do you go to the weekly speeches and each their lunches and that’s it?

Listing “Federalist Society - member” on your resume won’t be enough for the judges who hire ideologically. Will need to signal in other ways OR have someone in the movement vouch for you. So, Bibas, Wax, someone at Blackstone, or commonly, a board member through post-event lunches w judge. Those paths are closed to fakers.

Come to events if interested. But you’ll only get a resume boost if a true believer or somehow make your way onto the board (fakers make it every year, unfortunately).

I’m saying this as someone who cares about the chapter and wants to discourage this sort of gamesmanship.

[Anonymous User]

Why would anyone want to be friends with Amy Wax, who is probably a bigger liability to Penn than the clerkship, OCS, clinic, and grading problems combined?

[Anonymous User]

Why would anyone want to be friends with Amy Wax, who is probably a bigger liability to Penn than the clerkship, OCS, clinic, and grading problems combined?

I heard one of the three guys who took her conservatism seminar got a very impressive clerkship…

[Anonymous User]

Why would anyone want to be friends with Amy Wax, who is probably a bigger liability to Penn than the clerkship, OCS, clinic, and grading problems combined?

Liability how? Agree that she’s bad optics and unsavory, but OCS actively tanks apps by sending out the wrong materials etc

[Anonymous User]

Why would anyone want to be friends with Amy Wax, who is probably a bigger liability to Penn than the clerkship, OCS, clinic, and grading problems combined?

More than a few federal judges share her views.

[Anonymous User]

Why would anyone want to be friends with Amy Wax, who is probably a bigger liability to Penn than the clerkship, OCS, clinic, and grading problems combined?

Liability how? Agree that she’s bad optics and unsavory, but OCS actively tanks apps by sending out the wrong materials etc

Amy Wax is a bigger liability to Penn’s image but not really a problem for students clerkship chances at all. And she helps the students who agree with her views.

[Anonymous User]

I am willing to play the fed soc game but I only want to clerk in the Northeast in a big city which I know is a little bit limiting. Also how do you play the fed soc game? Do you go to the weekly speeches and each their lunches and that’s it?

If you’re a rising 2L, you’re already behind the curve for developing and exploiting fedsoc connections. They have events for students who have just finished 1L to learn the dogma before their summer clerkship interviews.

[Anonymous User]

I wish there was no value in sucking up to Amy Wax but unfortunately that’s not the case

[Anonymous User]

I wish there was no value in sucking up to Amy Wax but unfortunately that’s not the case

In moving to fire her, Ruger condemned ~1/4 of the judiciary lmao

[Anonymous User]

When I was reading interview evaluations, I noticed conservative judges asking students about Amy Wax in a way that suggested they disagreed with the school’s treatment of Wax. One memorable excerpt from an EDPA judge eval:

Were you surprised by anything?
She asked multiple times about Wax and PC culture.

[Anonymous User]

Well, Wax was correct about the use of various factors for Law Review consideration.

[Anonymous User]

Which judges are Wax sympathizers?

[Anonymous User]

For non-penn students reading this, what are ways in which your CDO or faculty help its top students get clerkships? I have anecdotally heard of a school's CDO office lining up clerkships to their top 1L students without them needing to interview.

EDIT: Moving to different thread to keep this one Penn focused.

For Penn? Zero. Even if you’re the #1 student

It’s crazy that this is true, but I feel like part of it is just simply because Penn doesn’t have a heavy hitting faculty. They don’t proactively try to help the top students because we don’t have professors who can do much for the top students anyway. Do we even have a single professor who clerked for a current SCOTUS justice or any feeder judge? Penn’s faculty is frankly nowhere near the level of HYSC. It’s honestly not even on par with most of the T14 or other solid schools like Notre Dame, Texas, and Vanderbilt.

No. Partially because the administration hasn’t and will not hire conservatives.

Posted the quoted comment. Wasn’t complaining about conservative support. Agree re Bibas and think favorably of Wax. Was responding narrowly to the prior comment. My argument is one of basic logic:

With the current Court, the school needs to hire conservative profs if they want to have faculty who have clerked for current feeders or justices.

Penn in recent years hires faculty almost solely for diversity purposes. Not based on their scholarship, clerkships, or connections. Just look at the record. It's appalling and hurts students in so many ways. Shame on Ruger and the faculty committees who personally stunt a school that could be so much better