Plan Day + 7 Days, Thread - Update On-Plan Calls Here Forum

[Another]

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[Anonymous User]

That sucks, re: the D-Mass interview, but with 3.9 from HYS I'm pretty confident something else will pop up. Don't stress out about it; working for a judge who isn't willing to at least treat your circumstances cordially/politely wouldn't be that fulfilling, anyways. I can understand not deviating from the only-in-person/strict timeline requirements, but it doesn't sound like the judge was at all empathetic or kind about it.

+1, sounds like you may have dodged a bullet here (especially if this is the D. Mass judge who I suspect it is).

Ditto.

Yeah, if it isn't meant to be, oh well. The judge sounds like a jerk. People can't put their whole life on hold just in case, maybe, at some random point during the year, a judge calls you up to interview. I have done video conference interviews before, I really don't see how the judge couldn't do that.

[Anonymous User]

Lots of judges are jerks if you're talking about how they handle hiring, but I'm not sure that not willing to deviate from a timeline or not willing to do video interviews is all that egregious when compared to how the average judge (or even average employer) handles things.

[ClerkAdvisor]

There's some unnecessary judge-bashing going on here. Having experienced both sides of the clerkship hiring process, the judge is right to cancel the interview if the candidate can come during the expected interview time frame.

Here's why:

-Judges and their chambers stay pretty darn busy, especially in the district court. While there may be some slow periods, district courts are often at the mercy of litigants - you generally can't control when your cases get busy. When a judge starts to focus on hiring, they want to get it done in a reasonable amount of time.

-The judges who do skype or video-conference interviews are a rarity. Most judges want you to come into chambers so that you can see chambers, meet the JA, and the current clerks, and get a general feel for how the place runs. This is pretty hard to do over skype. Most judges want to make sure that not only are you a good fit for them, but that they're a good fit for you.

-The judge probably wants to be fair to the interviewee. If the judge is more likely than not going to hire in the next 1-2 weeks, s/he doesn't want to have candidates waste their money booking travel if the position is likely to be filled long before they can travel.

[bk1]

I dunno if I'm willing to give judges that much of a pass. If hiring every year is so difficult, then just take career clerks.

[A. Nony Mouse]

I'm pretty sure there are now limits on how many career clerks a federal judge can hire - I don't think they can have 2 career clerks (in district court) anymore; if there are 2 it's because they're grandfathered in. (I don't know much about COA but I think there are limits there too.)

(Not saying this justifies canceling an interview. However, the sad truth is that there are so many great candidates that it's not surprising that some judges, especially in really competitive districts, will pass on someone whose logistics don't fit their desired format/timetable; they can just move on to the next person.)

[bk1]

Didn't know that. Alternatively couldn't they just take term clerks for the max term and only have to hire every so often ?

[A. Nony Mouse]

Didn't know that. Alternatively couldn't they just take term clerks for the max term and only have to hire every so often ?

The max term is 4 years, but I don't think most term clerks would want to clerk in the same court for 4 years. Some people don't even want to clerk for 2 (not all firms will hold positions for 2 years).

[bk1]

Didn't know that. Alternatively couldn't they just take term clerks for the max term and only have to hire every so often ?

The max term is 4 years, but I don't think most term clerks would want to clerk in the same court for 4 years. Some people don't even want to clerk for 2 (not all firms will hold positions for 2 years).

Oh I realize that but without a doubt judges could find competent people to fill those positions. I just find it odd defending the hiring practices of judges by saying they are busy when judges could make things easier on themselves yet choose not to.

ETA: Most employers do hiring in a shitty way, welcome to having all the power in the relationship. I'm not sure whether judges are really any better or worse than anyone else.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Didn't know that. Alternatively couldn't they just take term clerks for the max term and only have to hire every so often ?

The max term is 4 years, but I don't think most term clerks would want to clerk in the same court for 4 years. Some people don't even want to clerk for 2 (not all firms will hold positions for 2 years).

Oh I realize that but without a doubt judges could find competent people to fill those positions. I just find it odd defending the hiring practices of judges by saying they are busy when judges could make things easier on themselves yet choose not to.

Yeah, overall, I agree. I don't mean to defend judges being jerks, and I don't think being busy is a good excuse. It's just that every judge I've met finds hiring a huge pain in the ass and wants to get it over with as quickly and painlessly as possible. This judge did make it easier on him/herself, by moving on to the next candidate - it just sucks for the abroad candidate (what I think really sucks is that s/he got screwed over by the change in plan dates).

I also think that because judges hire every year, they get blase about the whole process, and don't quite realize how awful it is for candidates. That's not a justification, though, just an observation.

[legalmindedfella]

On this, since the thread kind of progressed (I was the "That sucks, re: the D-Mass interview..." anon) - I think what ClerkAdvisor said very well describes why the policy is perfectly understandable, on the part of the judge. But I also am quite sure that there are people who have had a situation like this and have also not felt ticked off enough about it to feel highly stressed out or needing to ask the advice of a lot of people or generally not knowing how to handle a judge not wanting to budge on requirements. There are ways to let someone (i.e., clerkship applicant) know that there are circumstances that can't be adjusted but that they understand their position/dilemma and wish them the best. I don't think the judge did that, and I don't think it's at all difficult to throw a bit of empathy toward the applicant. And given that clerkships are supposed to be one of the more laudable traditions in our often-not-great profession, it's not a great sign re: either that judge being a positive mentor or the judge really understanding the ecosystem in which they're operating.

So... I guess I just mean that I 100% understand incredibly arcane restrictions on the part of a judge, even far beyond no-Skyping (like, say, saying all interviews have to take place in early May, when finals are going on). But there's ways to handle the process that don't amount to psychological warfare against the applicants, and this doesn't sound like it was handled right.

[lolwat]

But there's ways to handle the process that don't amount to psychological warfare against the applicants, and this doesn't sound like it was handled right.

I don't get where this thought came from. All the applicant said was this:

well. fuck my life. D.Mass judge withdrew the interview request after I let him know I'm working abroad and can't do it in person.

The applicant was disappointed that the interview request was withdrawn, but there's zero indication that the judge was a jerk about it at all. (The only way he could've been a "jerk" given this was his decision not to interview via skype/phone.)

[Anonymous User]

Switching subjects, any new interview requests coming in? Anything on the new COA judges? Anything left for 2014 in the Circuit Courts? Who is moving for 2015?

[Anonymous User]

Switching subjects, any new interview requests coming in? Anything on the new COA judges? Anything left for 2014 in the Circuit Courts? Who is moving for 2015?

Two more interview requests for DMS judges, but no circuit.

[legalmindedfella]

But there's ways to handle the process that don't amount to psychological warfare against the applicants, and this doesn't sound like it was handled right.

I don't get where this thought came from. All the applicant said was this:

well. fuck my life. D.Mass judge withdrew the interview request after I let him know I'm working abroad and can't do it in person.

The applicant was disappointed that the interview request was withdrawn, but there's zero indication that the judge was a jerk about it at all. (The only way he could've been a "jerk" given this was his decision not to interview via skype/phone.)

Fair enough, I've well exceeded what I know about the situation. And as I said twice, it's fine for judges to have strict policies.

[Anonymous User]

Things have slowed down to nothing for me

[Anonymous User]

Maybe judges are holding off on making calls because of the bar exam?

[Arbiter213]

Dever (EDNC) full via email today (which is odd as I had withdrawn weeks ago).

[Anonymous User]

I got the same Dever's email despite withdrawing several weeks ago. Got a similar one from Hudson (EDVA) a few days back even though I'd already withdrawn.

[Anonymous User]

COA updates?

[Anonymous User]

Calls still going out. Western magistrate yesterday.

[Anonymous User]

Updates? Who is hiring?

[Anonymous User]

But there's ways to handle the process that don't amount to psychological warfare against the applicants, and this doesn't sound like it was handled right.

I don't get where this thought came from. All the applicant said was this:

well. fuck my life. D.Mass judge withdrew the interview request after I let him know I'm working abroad and can't do it in person.

The applicant was disappointed that the interview request was withdrawn, but there's zero indication that the judge was a jerk about it at all. (The only way he could've been a "jerk" given this was his decision not to interview via skype/phone.)

Fair enough, I've well exceeded what I know about the situation. And as I said twice, it's fine for judges to have strict policies.

sorry, i've been checked out for awhile (being abroad 'n all..)
first of all, it was the indeed d.mass judge ya'all suspected. secondly, he actually was really nice about it. he said he was very sorry i got screwed by the plan date change, was even considering calling the dean of my law school about it, and that i should apply to him next year.
that said, i didnt get any other interviews, and i didn't work at a firm this summer, so i guess it's on to fellowships..

[Anonymous User]

0/4 interviews/offers as an alum.

Feelin' real down.

[Anonymous User]

0/4 interviews/offers as an alum.

Feelin' real down.

You are not alone.