University of San Diego 2015 Forum

[jlr29]

So, any opinions regarding USD bumping up to 65th in the rankings this month?

I don't know that US News rankings are all that accurate at determining the quality of a legal education. However, they do matter for the job hunt to some extent - obviously it's better to go to a school with high prestige and a great reputation than to go to a school with low prestige and a mediocre reputation.

Still, I don't think a move of 2 spots means much of anything. USD seems pretty stable in the upper end of Tier 2. A major drop in ranking would be a more reliable indication that the overall perception of a school is changing (for example, Santa Clara tumbled 12 spots this cycle, which seems a legit cause of concern for its potential attendees).

[smittelman6]

Two cents from around campus and my personal job hunting experience...

Rankings don't matter in T2 because T2 schools are regional. For the sake of the argument, if rankings did matter at this level, what would matter is that you go to the best school in your region. Which USD is. Yes, there is some competition from UCLA/USC and the NorCal T1s, but not enough to make any sort of real dent.

For those of you who are more visual... http://californiabar.globl.org/report.p ... 0&g=2&pp=5

Basically, if you want to practice in San Diego, USD is a great choice. I wouldn't want to speculate outside of this general region, so if not, you should probably dig in deep research-wise and find out what USD's reputation is in the specific city where you would like to live post-grad.

[Dreas]

I don't think a move of 2 spots means much of anything. USD seems pretty stable in the upper end of Tier 2. A major drop in ranking would be a more reliable indication that the overall perception of a school is changing (for example, Santa Clara tumbled 12 spots this cycle, which seems a legit cause of concern for its potential attendees).

Agreed, however, major jumps would help get closer to the other CA T2 schools, which would obviously reflect an improvement in the overall program (curriculum, faculty, student body, and most importantly, employment/network). This would be a tremendous boost to grads given the competition with students from UCLA/USC/Pepperdine/Loyola/and the Bay Area - adding flexibility toward practicing in different locations throughout CA.

Two cents from around campus and my personal job hunting experience...
Rankings don't matter in T2 because T2 schools are regional. For the sake of the argument, if rankings did matter at this level, what would matter is that you go to the best school in your region. Which USD is. Yes, there is some competition from UCLA/USC and the NorCal T1s, but not enough to make any sort of real dent.

For those of you who are more visual... http://californiabar.globl.org/report.p ... 0&g=2&pp=5

I understand your point but from what I've heard thus far throughout this forum, job prospects in SD look grim regardless. As a prospective student this definitely concerns me, after all, you can be the best school in the region but what does that mean to your student body if they can't find employment opportunities once they've graduated?

I believe there were posts in other threads regarding students at USD who are top 1/3 and 10% who are struggling in SD, "We come to these [OCI] events because we have a lot of alumni from USD, but the fact is, we cannot justify hiring associates from USD with our limited openings and an increase in competition," (--LinkRemoved--).

e.g.

Top 10% my class and can't even get an interview! When you do go to an interview they say that they aren't hiring from this school. Bit of a pyramid scheme.

Unfortunately, I don't think this is atypical at USD. The couple of people I know at USD (two are top third, law review, and one is top 10%) are also struggling to find jobs.

Beautiful school though...

Smitt: Thanks for the link btw, although the stats are somewhat ambiguous.

Don't mistake my concern though, I'm not attempting to come off as pompous or pessimistic in any way. I'm just concerned with what the results will be after investing myself at USD, as I'm sure many on here are.

[smittelman6]

I understand your point but from what I've heard thus far throughout this forum, job prospects in SD look grim regardless. As a prospective student this definitely concerns me, after all, you can be the best school in the region but what does that mean to your student body if they can't find employment opportunities once they've graduated?

The SD legal market is VERY small... there's no getting around that. My point was simply that within that small market, USD does dominate (and if a bit ambiguous, I think the numbers do still back that up). I also think a lot of people are willing to struggle for a bit after graduation in a trade-off for the quality of life they get by staying -- those 2011 graduates who are still jobless could probably go to other markets and have an easier time finding work, but they want to stay here. Of course this is my personal opinion; if you don't absolutely love SD (though I don't know how that could be possible) or have any connections outside of SD this, admittedly, might not be the place for you.

[jlr29]

The SD legal market is VERY small... there's no getting around that. My point was simply that within that small market, USD does dominate (and if a bit ambiguous, I think the numbers do still back that up). I also think a lot of people are willing to struggle for a bit after graduation in a trade-off for the quality of life they get by staying -- those 2011 graduates who are still jobless could probably go to other markets and have an easier time finding work, but they want to stay here. Of course this is my personal opinion; if you don't absolutely love SD (though I don't know how that could be possible) or have any connections outside of SD this, admittedly, might not be the place for you.

I'm also a prospective weighing pros & cons here. I guess this question is for smittelman6, the current USD attendee. I know the LA market is incredibly tough, with competition from UCLA, USC, Pepperdine, & Loyola. But does a degree from USD play any better in South Orange County (Mission Viejo, Newport, Laguna, Irvine, Capistrano Valley, etc.)? I have a lot of family connections there and I was hoping USD might place better in the southern fringes of Greater LA area than in, say, the San Fernando Valley.

I'm very open to living & working in San Diego, too, of course, for obvious reasons.

[danicab]

Seat deposit down!

Now I just gotta find a roommate! The list being sent out in early July sounds kinda late...

[smittelman6]

@jlr: I couldn't say as far as post-grad since, again, I don't know anyone who recently graduated (but will probably have more info later in the semester as the 3Ls get jobs). As far as summer jobs, I know that Riverside, Irvine, and Fresno all took a good number of USD students for DA and PD internships, which is really good. It seems like the less common places (i.e. where people are less likely to want to go, in general) in SoCal and central CA are open to a much wider range of schools than the typical big-city stereotypes of only taking UCLA/USC/Berkeley/Stanford.

@dani: I'd say 85% of the people I know found their roommates through FB, not through the USD website's page. The SBA Exec Board or someone in your class will probably set up a c/o 2015 group sometime around May, so people start posting in there "looking for a roommate" etc etc. I found both my roommates through the fb group and we get along great- I'm living with one of them again next year.

[Dreas]

Anyone visit the campus during ASD on the 26th, opinions/impressions?

[Beachbum89]

Anyone visit the campus during ASD on the 26th, opinions/impressions?

I went last week and will not be attending but here were my impressions of the day:

-The campus is absolutely beautiful. I loved the mission style campus and the view of the bay is incredible.
-The law school itself is beautiful on the outside and fairly dated on the inside. My dad said it felt dated when he went to law school there in the 80's and judging by my description he said it didn't sound like it's changed much. So it is dated but totally functional for law school.
-The day started with a quick intro from the Director of Admissions and maybe the Assistant Dean of the School? I can't remember. Anyway, we went from that to a mock class which was fine. The professor was pretty laid back and facilitated discussion on the reading for maybe 15 minutes and then took questions. After that there was a student panel followed by tours of the law school.
-They had a lunch reception for us with a speech and Q+A by the new Dean. I was very impressed with him. He talked about how they are cutting the 1L class size down to 275 next year and are planning to cut it down further as they realize there's no sense pumping out over 300 JD's each year in this economy. He seemed pretty big on expanding study abroad programs for students and starting a Washington DC program. The last thing he talked about was revamping the 1L curriculum and making it more practical. It kinda sounded like what they're doing at UC Irvine but the Dean said they are just starting to talk about it now so it would be a few years before any changes were implemented.
-After lunch was an alumni panel with two fairly recent grads working at well-known firms in the area. They talked about their experiences at USD and how they prepared them for their job. A bunch of potential students asked questions to figure out if they were the norm or not for their respective classes in terms of getting jobs like that. The alumni didn't really answer but based on my conversations with students at the law school it sounds like most kids are having a tough time finding employment.
-The last part of the day was a Q+A session with the Director of Admissions. He pretty much said they're done admitting people and are out of scholarship money until they figure out how many kids accepted their scholarships.

Overall, it was a good day and I loved the campus and I love San Diego but employment concerns and reputation are what steered me to other schools.

[Dreas]

I went last week and will not be attending but here were my impressions of the day:

[...]

Overall, it was a good day and I loved the campus and I love San Diego but employment concerns and reputation are what steered me to other schools.

Thanks for the write up!

So what are some of the more serious considerations you're having over USD if you don't mind me asking?

[Beachbum89]

I went last week and will not be attending but here were my impressions of the day:

[...]

Overall, it was a good day and I loved the campus and I love San Diego but employment concerns and reputation are what steered me to other schools.

Thanks for the write up!

So what are some of the more serious considerations you're having over USD if you don't mind me asking?

Some of my concerns were the small (and from what I've heard, it continues to get smaller) legal market in San Diego. I'm not opposed to working in San Diego but I felt that USD limited me a little too much in that regard. Another concern is employment in general coming out of a school like USD with the economy and legal market the way it is. From my discussions with 2L's and 3L's it sounded like very few had summer associate positions and full time positions lined up for after graduation. Granted, I only talked to a few people but they made it seem like their experiences were fairly indicative of their classmates as well.

For me it came down to employment and reputation. I'm still deciding between UC Davis and UC Irvine but I felt that my job prospects coming out of those schools would be much better than coming out of USD.

[Dreas]

Some of my concerns were the small (and from what I've heard, it continues to get smaller) legal market in San Diego. I'm not opposed to working in San Diego but I felt that USD limited me a little too much in that regard. Another concern is employment in general coming out of a school like USD with the economy and legal market the way it is. From my discussions with 2L's and 3L's it sounded like very few had summer associate positions and full time positions lined up for after graduation. Granted, I only talked to a few people but they made it seem like their experiences were fairly indicative of their classmates as well.

For me it came down to employment and reputation. I'm still deciding between UC Davis and UC Irvine but I felt that my job prospects coming out of those schools would be much better than coming out of USD.

I'm definitely in the same boat. I know of a 3L who still hasn't secured a job for graduation and that student is fairly involved on campus.

Anyway, have you already withdrawn from the other Cali. schools?

Davis and Irvine are great choices, but how are you going about evaluating Irvine?

[Beachbum89]

Some of my concerns were the small (and from what I've heard, it continues to get smaller) legal market in San Diego. I'm not opposed to working in San Diego but I felt that USD limited me a little too much in that regard. Another concern is employment in general coming out of a school like USD with the economy and legal market the way it is. From my discussions with 2L's and 3L's it sounded like very few had summer associate positions and full time positions lined up for after graduation. Granted, I only talked to a few people but they made it seem like their experiences were fairly indicative of their classmates as well.

For me it came down to employment and reputation. I'm still deciding between UC Davis and UC Irvine but I felt that my job prospects coming out of those schools would be much better than coming out of USD.

I'm definitely in the same boat. I know of a 3L who still hasn't secured a job for graduation and that student is fairly involved on campus.

Anyway, have you already withdrawn from the other Cali. schools?

Davis and Irvine are great choices, but how are you going about evaluating Irvine?

Yeah, USD is a really cool school and in a great city it just seemed like most of the students were like the 3L you know in terms of finding employment.

I've withdrawn from everywhere except UCI and Davis.

I'm having a really tough time choosing between UCI and Davis. I love what the school is trying to do in that they've realized there needs to be some sort of change in the way law students are taught. What they're doing isn't a huge change but at least it's a step in the right direction. The small class size, good job/clerkship placement (so far), and emphasis on practical skills is really drawing me to the school. My main concern is the quality of incoming students dropping as scholarship money decreases and they make the class size bigger.

I also did my undergrad at UCI and I'm kinda sick of Irvine so that's pushing me the other way as well. I loved Davis (the law school and town) and it's already a well-known and established law school. On the other hand, there's a lot more upside to UCI and my girlfriend will be in grad school down here so chances are I'll end up at UCI. Hopefully it becomes the school they claim it will be!

[mkat27]

- Job Prospects -
The job market is terrible everywhere. This is something that anyone going to law school needs to keep in mind. It's getting better, but it's nowhere near what it was five years ago. I can't speak to jobs post-grad, since I'm a 1L and don't know any post-grads, but hopefully later in the year I will have some more info on that from my 3L friends.
As far as summer employment for 1Ls goes, it's relatively good. Almost all of my friends have jobs already, many in SD, some in their hometowns. On campus interviewing was great, we had a lot of employers, and many students were offered jobs through that. I got my job (working for a Superior Court judge) through a networking event and through career services (sort of combined). If there's one thing I can't stress enough, it's NETWORK! No matter where you go, you need to be on top of all of the networking events your school offers, and go to as many as possible. Alumni want to help you. You looking good makes them look good; it ups our ranking and our reputation in SD and throughout the country. Every USD alum I have met has been 100% eager to help me out in any way they can. This doesn't always mean offering you a job, but I promise that the more people you know the better it will be in the long run.

- Career Services -
They are great. I have heard some stories and I know that not every single person has had a great experience, but mine has been absolutely amazing. You can't expect CS to do the work for you... you need to be out there looking for jobs and networking, but that being said, their job is to help you and they do a great job at it. Don't be afraid to go into your advisor, and ask for help. They can't do anything to help you if they don't know who you are. Several of my friends got jobs through spring OCI with the public defender, US attorney's office, and JAG. These are great positions that are going to go a very long way on their resumes.

Do you know how the PT 1L's are doing as far as finding summer employment? Thanks!

[SiRR]

USD is at the top of my list since they've given me the most money of the schools I've been accepted to, and I haven't heard from some other choices that I'd consider giving preference to. I'm from Tempe and waiting to hear back from ASU, but at this point they'd have to give me a decent chunk of change in order to offset my really, really, really wanting to live and practice in San Diego. I put down my first deposit last week.

My biggest concern at the moment is the job market, though as many have said it's rough everywhere. Based on where I've been admitted so far, I'd rather be at the best school in the city I want to live as a USD graduate, then have to compete with so many quality schools in Northern California out of Santa Clara or even Davis.

Anyone going to ASD on April 13th?

[UnderrateOverachieve]

.

[Phightins]

Just paid my first deposit. See you all in the fall.

[smittelman6]

Do you know how the PT 1L's are doing as far as finding summer employment? Thanks!

I couldn't really speak for the PTs as a whole since I only know two of them, but those two do have jobs for this summer, both are doing public interest (which was what they wanted).

[mzl]

Has anyone that has been admitted received any scholarships at a later date? Or been able to negotiate a scholarship from the school? I am very interested in attending, but at sticker, that's a tough decision.

[jarofsoup]

@jlr: I couldn't say as far as post-grad since, again, I don't know anyone who recently graduated (but will probably have more info later in the semester as the 3Ls get jobs). As far as summer jobs, I know that Riverside, Irvine, and Fresno all took a good number of USD students for DA and PD internships, which is really good. It seems like the less common places (i.e. where people are less likely to want to go, in general) in SoCal and central CA are open to a much wider range of schools than the typical big-city stereotypes of only taking UCLA/USC/Berkeley/Stanford.

I am not convinced that DA or PD internship translates into any sort of employment after graduation. Barbri and Kaplan bar prep are starting up on campus and I do know a good amount of 3L's that do not have work. The reality is that very few people are on track to get jobs after there second year and our dean is rather useless.


I am hoping to transfer out to a school that has better job prospects and is not in a region that is slow. This all being said and with all my negativity towards the employment prospects I have developed very strong relationships with my professors.

[Godnah]

Question for anyone knowledgeable from a prospective USD 1L: are there any practices that are noticeably strong in the SD market? My gut tells me tax law should be stronger than others, but I'm just talking out my arse. I'm worried about job prospects as well, and if there is a particular concentration that will fare better I'd like to gear up as soon as I can. Thanks!

[jarofsoup]

Question for anyone knowledgeable from a prospective USD 1L: are there any practices that are noticeably strong in the SD market? My gut tells me tax law should be stronger than others, but I'm just talking out my arse. I'm worried about job prospects as well, and if there is a particular concentration that will fare better I'd like to gear up as soon as I can. Thanks!

Biotech and PI. General litigation is strong in any market. Tax not sure, but the school would sure love you to believe so. Look at the big law practice groups located in SD to get a snap shot.

[hiima3L]

Question for anyone knowledgeable from a prospective USD 1L: are there any practices that are noticeably strong in the SD market? My gut tells me tax law should be stronger than others, but I'm just talking out my arse. I'm worried about job prospects as well, and if there is a particular concentration that will fare better I'd like to gear up as soon as I can. Thanks!

IP (biotech) is the only noticeably big legal market. There's also a ton of criminal and immigration because it's a border town.

[jarofsoup]

Question for anyone knowledgeable from a prospective USD 1L: are there any practices that are noticeably strong in the SD market? My gut tells me tax law should be stronger than others, but I'm just talking out my arse. I'm worried about job prospects as well, and if there is a particular concentration that will fare better I'd like to gear up as soon as I can. Thanks!

IP (biotech) is the only noticeably big legal market. There's also a ton of criminal and immigration because it's a border town.

Making yourself a target for the cartels would be an awesome way to spend your first year in practice

[dn915]

Hope everyone's summer is going well,

Does anyone know when/where book lists for classes are released?
I wanted to get a head start on ordering from places like amazon, etc.

thanks in advance =]