C&F issue. Panicking, please help. Forum

[nolitapizza123]

Hi guys, I really need help, so any advice is appreciated.

I'm currently a 2L at a T14 and have a summer associate position for this summer. I'm extremely worried about the bar C&F issue though, because last summer I screwed up. I worked at a public interest org my 1L summer and regrettably, I did not do a good job. I was lazy and didn't really complete assignments in time, etc. I left a bad impression on my superiors, and rightfully so. I've sent in an hours form to them, but they didn't reply and I don't think they will do so. I think they really dislike me.

I'm wondering how this will play into the bar issue in NY. I'm sure they will call them and ask for their opinion of me, which will be bad. They will tell them that I was lazy and didn't complete assignments, which is all true. Will this keep me from passing the bar and being a lawyer? If this happens I will be screwed since I have 6-figure debt and no other way to pay it off. I'm wondering what I should do, and if I should just consider dropping out before I incur more debt.

Also, when I do the summer associate background check, do I include my 1L public interest experience as "employment history"? I only put in the actual paid job I did before law school, which might have been a mistake, I just assumed employment meant a real job that I got paid for. Do I call the background check service and tell them about my 1L position? If the firm calls them and hears these bad reviews, will they rescind the offer? Please offer any kind of advice...

[Dunnkirk85]

Obviously you would put that job as employment history. That's shady if you didn't, especially if you had issues.


For the bar - I don't think this would cause serious issues but you might have to explain more fully what happened if they don't give you a good character assessment.

[cavalier1138]

C&F isn't about your work ethic. It's about your fitness to practice law. So here's the breakdown.

Being a bad/lazy employee in a way that didn't involve dishonest or fraudulent conduct: Almost certainly not a C&F issue.

Failing to disclose your full employment history because you're worried a prior boss will say bad things about you: Massive C&F issue.

Will the firm rescind their offer if your prior employer speaks ill of you? I doubt it, but I hope you've figured out how to not be a total fuck-up this summer.

[nixy]

I don’t think being lazy and bad at your work is really an ethical issue unless it involved actual deception or thievery or the like. You were just a shitty employee.

But yeah, it should have gone on your background check form. They’re not really going to get evaluations of you from that, it’s more to confirm you actually worked a particular job, ensure there are no conflicts, and make sure you didn’t get fired, but you should add it. (The background check is different from calling a former employer as a reference.) All work in law school counts, paid or not.

[albanach]

I am not a NY lawyer, but I believe NY has a pro-bono requirement for admission. I have no idea what's required to certify that.

If you think hitting the hour requirement will be an issue because your summer employer won't sign off, you might want to think about getting new pro-bono hours before graduation.

[FND]

the NY bar is very easy when it comes to C&F (at least, compared to the three other states where I had to go through the process)

They won't call, but they may send a letter requesting information. Overall, the issue isn't a disqualifier, but it may cause some delay (especially if you're 2nd Dept.) Be prepared to have an explanation that shows contrition.

Do note that the second biggest reason for lawyer discipline is " lazy and didn't really complete assignments in time, etc". (the primary reason is financial malfeasance). So if they do put you through the wringer, there's a good reason for it. But that's not going to happen.

[FND]

I don’t think being lazy and bad at your work is really an ethical issue unless it involved actual deception or thievery or the like. You were just a shitty employee.

it's actually the second most-common reason for attorney discipline - failing to complete work in a timely manner and failure to communicate properly with clients.

[nixy]

I don’t think being lazy and bad at your work is really an ethical issue unless it involved actual deception or thievery or the like. You were just a shitty employee.

it's actually the second most-common reason for attorney discipline - failing to complete work in a timely manner and failure to communicate properly with clients.

But that’s once you’re actually a barred lawyer, not a 1L summer intern being supervised by licensed attorneys. I have a hard time thinking that the intern was blowing court deadlines or responsible for communicating with clients.

[QContinuum]

I am not a NY lawyer, but I believe NY has a pro-bono requirement for admission. I have no idea what's required to certify that.

If you think hitting the hour requirement will be an issue because your summer employer won't sign off, you might want to think about getting new pro-bono hours before graduation.

Meeting the 50-hour NY requirement is easy. OP can just do some pro bono work during their SA and will easily be able to get to 50 over the course of the summer (assuming they never do any other pro bono work during law school).

Harder is the fact that OP will need to either get a pro bono certification from their 1L employer or at least an employer affirmation. So either way OP needs to get some kind of signoff from them. There are ways around it if they refuse to provide either the certification or the affirmation but it will likely delay OP's admission.

[nolitapizza123]

I am not a NY lawyer, but I believe NY has a pro-bono requirement for admission. I have no idea what's required to certify that.

If you think hitting the hour requirement will be an issue because your summer employer won't sign off, you might want to think about getting new pro-bono hours before graduation.

Meeting the 50-hour NY requirement is easy. OP can just do some pro bono work during their SA and will easily be able to get to 50 over the course of the summer (assuming they never do any other pro bono work during law school).

Harder is the fact that OP will need to either get a pro bono certification from their 1L employer or at least an employer affirmation. So either way OP needs to get some kind of signoff from them. There are ways around it if they refuse to provide either the certification or the affirmation but it will likely delay OP's admission.

Does this mean that I will be admitted to the bar late? Will this mean that my biglaw offer will likely be rescinded? This is terrible. I'm planning on doing a clinic my 3L year that can fulfill the pro bono requirement. Will this mean anything?

[hoosier41]

Does this mean that I will be admitted to the bar late? Will this mean that my biglaw offer will likely be rescinded? This is terrible. I'm planning on doing a clinic my 3L year that can fulfill the pro bono requirement. Will this mean anything?

Chill. Just being lazy and incompetent at your 1L summer job isn't going to prevent you from getting admitted to the bar. This really isn't as big of deal as you seem to think, for whatever reason. [Troll?]

Regarding whether "[your] biglaw offer will likely be rescinded" because of this, I think you are getting way ahead of yourself. At this moment, you don't have a biglaw offer to be taken away. You have a summer associate position lined up for this summer. Yes, generally speaking most SAs get offers at the end of the summer (depending on the firm) but based on your description of your 1L summer work ethic I would not just assume that you'll get an offer. Just focus on doing good work and not burning another bridge.

[QContinuum]

I am not a NY lawyer, but I believe NY has a pro-bono requirement for admission. I have no idea what's required to certify that.

If you think hitting the hour requirement will be an issue because your summer employer won't sign off, you might want to think about getting new pro-bono hours before graduation.

Meeting the 50-hour NY requirement is easy. OP can just do some pro bono work during their SA and will easily be able to get to 50 over the course of the summer (assuming they never do any other pro bono work during law school).

Harder is the fact that OP will need to either get a pro bono certification from their 1L employer or at least an employer affirmation. So either way OP needs to get some kind of signoff from them. There are ways around it if they refuse to provide either the certification or the affirmation but it will likely delay OP's admission.

Does this mean that I will be admitted to the bar late?

Possibly. As a general rule, anything that "complicates" your application - such as lacking an employer affirmation - may delay your admission. The best thing is to continue trying to reach your 1L employer and to document your attempts to do so.

If you are very concerned, you should reach out to a NY C&F attorney for more specific advice.

Will this mean that my biglaw offer will likely be rescinded?

No one knows for sure, but you need to disclose your 1L employment to your firm and to the background checkers asap.

This is terrible. I'm planning on doing a clinic my 3L year that can fulfill the pro bono requirement. Will this mean anything?

It will mean that you will have fulfilled the pro bono requirement.

[albanach]

Does this mean that I will be admitted to the bar late?

Possibly. As a general rule, anything that "complicates" your application - such as lacking an employer affirmation - may delay your admission. The best thing is to continue trying to reach your 1L employer and to document your attempts to do so.

If you are very concerned, you should reach out to a NY C&F attorney for more specific advice.

Seems to me that OP should try to get 50 hours somewhere else. Then at least their 1L summer employer only has to certify that they were present during that time, rather than being asked to verify completion of 50 hours.

As you said earlier, 50 hours pro bono is pretty easy to achieve.

[Attorney1379]

the NY bar is very easy when it comes to C&F (at least, compared to the three other states where I had to go through the process)

They won't call, but they may send a letter requesting information. Overall, the issue isn't a disqualifier, but it may cause some delay (especially if you're 2nd Dept.) Be prepared to have an explanation that shows contrition.

Do note that the second biggest reason for lawyer discipline is " lazy and didn't really complete assignments in time, etc". (the primary reason is financial malfeasance). So if they do put you through the wringer, there's a good reason for it. But that's not going to happen.

Out of curiosity, which was the hardest state in terms of C&F for you? Ive also done C&F several times and I’ve found some states to be more probing and thorough than others, but none were unreasonable (assuming no red flags in bar app).