3L going into Int'l Arbitration - Answering Q's Forum

[mich2013]

I hope this is a resource for anyone wondering about international law.

.

I got my job (biglaw NY) through normal OCI process. Enjoyed my summer and am going back.

I know sometimes international law seems like a fairytale unicorn, but there are jobs out there in practice areas that are growing (int'l arbitration, project finance).

Let me know if you have questions.

[lawlorbust]

Congratulations. I don't want to come across negative towards anyone sharing their career experiences and offering career advice on this forum, but I'm just kinda puzzled ... that your outcome doesn't seem at all to be a unicorn job? Like, almost every v50 has some sort of international arbitration group, and these groups need warm bodies / SAs. I'd be quite surprised if someone who need close to your record of international focus, or that these positions are hard to get generally (assuming, of course, that you're otherwise on a biglaw track), but maybe I'm wrong about this?

[mich2013]

Yeah, that's what I'm trying to get at. My perception before OCI was that these were unicorn jobs (just think of the sarcastic 'what even is int'l law' comments/posts).

What I'm trying to say is that these jobs are out there, and that I'm happy to answer questions if anyone is interested. Stating my background was just me anticipating the question.

[ac8876a]

Thanks for doing this, I am interested in international work and want to do be in practice groups like project finance, arbitration, cross-border,etc.

Did you express your interest in international arbitration during your interview for your SA?

Do you know if these practice groups are usually looking for new associates or is it difficult to get into them?

[mich2013]

Yup, they definitely knew that I wanted to do IA, but I always couched it with "I'm also interested in litigation."

When you interview for int'l work, you will get asked WHY you want to do that work. I only learned how to give a good answer by giving bad answers in other interviews; so try to think of this beforehand. I think a perfectly acceptable answer is something like: "global work adds an interesting layer of complexity (jurisdictional issues, enforcement of judgment, etc...)"

I don't know what other firms are doing, but the two firms I know about do hire first-year associates in project finance / int'l arbitration.

Let me know if you have other questions. Good luck!

[ac8876a]

Do you think expressing an interest in a certain region that you know the firms does work in is helpful?

Also, if the firm has international offices with the same type of work that your practice group is in, are you allowed to transfer to those offices?

[mich2013]

Moving to other offices: It's possible; but depends on need, I think. It's case-specific imo; so while I think once you're in a firm it's definitely possible to move around within it, it's not guaranteed.

Yes, I think expressing interest in a certain region is helpful for 2 reasons: First, and to a lesser degree, it shows that you've done your research and are genuinely interested in the firm. Second, and this is more important, if you express an interest in a region for which they're hiring, that is a very good thing. But how do you know what practice areas/regions they're trying to grow? You call alumni from your school at the firm and ask (but realize that you are being judged immediately, and that if the alumni like you/don't like you they might let recruiting know). In other words, a firm's assessment of you starts as soon as you make contact, not just during OCI

[Nebby]

They specifically placed you in the IA practice group already?

[mich2013]

They told me i'll do both IA & lit

[Nebby]

They told me i'll do both IA & lit

Congrats!

[kellyfrost]

Will you be doing any "Bermuda Form" arbitration cases? (Insurance arbitration where the policy was written on the Bermuda Form and stipulate to arbitration typically to be held in London but applying New York law, if I remember correctly).

[mich2013]

There's a person within the firm that specializes in handling those cases. No clue whether I'll be asked to help her or not.

[zot1]

Did you go to law school hoping to do international law?

[mich2013]

Before law school, I thought I had to decide b/w foreign policy work and being a lawyer. I didn't know much about career options.

Once I started law school and went through OCI, I was very excited to find that I didn't have to choose. IA mixes both.

[EncyclopediaOrange]

They told me i'll do both IA & lit

I want to be you I think. Just sayin'

[Poets]

Thanks for doing this.

What would you exactly do in IA? I took Int'l business law class but don't get what they ACTUALLY do on a daily basis. (I got an A so it's not due to my lack of understanding) For instance, would you or your senior lawyers litigate the case in front of an arbitrator (not a judge?) regarding a dispute between Company A and B that are headquartered in different countries?

My second question is is a second language ability would give candidates a meaningful plus in the recruiting process?

[freekick]

Thanks for taking questions, OP.

Is the combination of a foreign law degree (with foreign litigation experience) and JD a notable plus for IA?

Also, in addition to IA, would you be doing Public International Law based litigation?

[Slytherpuff]

I can give a basic answer to some of these Qs.

On a daily basis - arbitration is awesome because you get to spend a lot more time in "court" (oral advocacy in front of a panel of arbitrators though), but a lot of your time is going to be spent on written submissions. There are a lot more briefs and documents that get sent back and forth than in a normal litigation. Also, arbitration can be commercial (disputes between two companies, usually involving some contract that had an arbitration clause) or investor-state (maybe an investor is suing another country for imposing a new environmental regulation that would hurt their business, for example) - most firms just do one or the other, some do a mix of both kinds, and either way that'll be impacting the kind of matters you'll be working on.

Some firms love having associates with previous foreign IA/litigation experience, some don't care as much. It can definitely be a plus, but no need to go out of your way to get a foreign law degree just to increase your chances of doing IA!

Not too many large law firms do public international law, or at least it would be a very small portion of their practice. Government agencies and other international organizations have their own lawyers that can handle this kind of work! International trade can come pretty close to this though, and some investor-state cases start looking a lot like public international law.

[freekick]

I can give a basic answer to some of these Qs.

On a daily basis - arbitration is awesome because you get to spend a lot more time in "court" (oral advocacy in front of a panel of arbitrators though), but a lot of your time is going to be spent on written submissions. There are a lot more briefs and documents that get sent back and forth than in a normal litigation. Also, arbitration can be commercial (disputes between two companies, usually involving some contract that had an arbitration clause) or investor-state (maybe an investor is suing another country for imposing a new environmental regulation that would hurt their business, for example) - most firms just do one or the other, some do a mix of both kinds, and either way that'll be impacting the kind of matters you'll be working on.

Some firms love having associates with previous foreign IA/litigation experience, some don't care as much. It can definitely be a plus, but no need to go out of your way to get a foreign law degree just to increase your chances of doing IA!

Not too many large law firms do public international law, or at least it would be a very small portion of their practice. Government agencies and other international organizations have their own lawyers that can handle this kind of work! International trade can come pretty close to this though, and some investor-state cases start looking a lot like public international law.

Thanks again. Have a follow up question if you don't mind.

How does IA recruitment work? Do firms look for International Law background? Do you do IA work during your SA? Or is it general OCI+SA and then random team allotment as part of which one may or may not get IA?

[freekick]

Also, would be really helpful if you could mention the firms that love foreign IA/litigation experience. Thanks a lot!

[Slytherpuff]

IA recruitment is going to differ at a lot of firms - it'll depend on whether they have a dedicated IA group or just mix IA with their general litigation group, and also on whether they hire summer associates directly into a practice group (King & Spalding does this, for example, but it's pretty rare otherwise).

If you really want to do IA, you can definitely go into OCI highlighting your international background and why you want to join the firm's IA group. This might backfire if the firm isn't sure if they'll have space for an IA associate and would prefer to just hire you into general lit. Like mich2013 said, it's best to say that you want to do IA but are also interested in general lit. And some firms will be excited about your interest in international work and won't care either way whether you say you just want to do IA or are also interested in lit.

I think the most common/recommended route to IA is to do a mix of work over your SA, but try to do as much IA as possible. Make sure the IA people all really know you and respect your work. There aren't many firms that will let you do exclusively IA over the summer, unless they have a huge IA practice or hire you straight onto the IA team.

You'll have to do some of your own research to see which firms love hiring people with foreign legal training. Maybe take a peek at the online bios of associates in different firms' IA groups, and see what their educational background is!

[freekick]

Thanks so much for the extremely helpful reply.

Please let me bug you further: Do the SF and LA offices of NY/DC firms do IA and international litigation? (Firm websites suggest most of this work is done in NY/DC.)