Is there a way to start over again? Forum

[TheUnderperformer]

Hey everyone, I just finished my 2nd semester of 1L. My grades were less than stellar and I have a 2.8 GPA. I know this probably isn't good enough to transfer, but how about starting 1L over again? Is this possible (at, say, a different school)? My reasoning is that I now understand how to learn the law. And in my opinion, the purpose of Law School is not to teach law. They teach nothing at all, their purpose is only to weed people out. The way the entire profession is taught kind of disgusts me, and reveals exactly WHY there are so many incompetent lawyers.

[psu2016]

No. Lol.

If this were possible, literally everyone would re-do 1L year...

Edit: Also, if your school "weeds people out" you should have probably come here before enrolling at a TTTTTTTT so we could have talked you out of going there.

[A. Nony Mouse]

I think people have actually withdrawn after 1L and started over, but I think mostly there's been a gap between withdrawing and starting over - like you had some kind of family emergency or illness or reconsidered the whole thing over a few years. It would require withdrawing, reapplying to schools, and hoping that you get into a school that's more worth it to you, and it's hard to predict whether that would be successful. "I wanted to do 1L over again to get better grades because now I've figured out how to do law school" isn't really a great reason (you'd have an unfair advantage on a curve having covered the material already). If there are schools you're considering you could certainly inquire of them whether they'd take an applicant who's done this, I just don't know how widely possible it is.

[Foghornleghorn]

Yes. Drop out of law school and pick another career.

[TheUnderperformer]

I guess I was expecting a little more maturity from my peers but it seems some of you are youtube comments come to life.

[TasmanianToucan]

To be fair, you came to an internet forum for advice. If that advice (which is all good and true, by the way) is put a little too bluntly for you, I'm sorry, but what exactly did you expect?

[TheUnderperformer]

What do I expect? That if you have an answer, give it (if you like) and if you don't, then refrain from typing "just quit your profession bro, lol."

[A. Nony Mouse]

I think the "just quit your profession" is an answer, though, just not one you like. It's not unreasonable to suggest that someone with poor 1L grades drop out and do something else, though as with everything it's going to depend on circumstances. To be honest looking at your other post about law review suggests you are at a school that does a lot of weeding out, which suggests you're at a school with poor employment options.

[Clearly]

Yeah your other post means that you probably should drop out unless unconditional full ride or very very close to it. Otherwise you're paying money to waste time for a very low chance of gainful legal employment. Sorry but that's just the truth, good schools don't do those things.

[TheUnderperformer]

2.8 isn't exactly "poor", its just mediocre. I feel like no one properly prepared me for Law School, and teachers did a shit job of actually letting us know what was testable and what wasn't. Now I understand. Now I can get A's, no problem. My tuition is 5grand a semester, so that's not a problem either. As for job opportunities, I already have one lined up after graduation. Not making the Law Review is a bummer because I was planning on teaching one day (not anymore). But no, "just quit bro" is not advice, its a way of saying "I'm too lazy to analyze this situation so I'll just insult your self worth."

[acr]

2.8 isn't exactly "poor", its just mediocre. I feel like no one properly prepared me for Law School, and teachers did a shit job of actually letting us know what was testable and what wasn't. Now I understand. Now I can get A's, no problem. My tuition is 5grand a semester, so that's not a problem either. As for job opportunities, I already have one lined up after graduation. Not making the Law Review is a bummer because I was planning on teaching one day (not anymore). But no, "just quit bro" is not advice, its a way of saying "I'm too lazy to analyze this situation so I'll just insult your self worth."

I can't tell if you're trolling or just throwing a tantrum.

A 2.8 is poor. If you're not willing to admit that and want to keep sugar coating things, then you're not willing to receive and implement honest advice.

And yes, there are problems with the structure of legal education. This has been known since the beginning of time. I studied my heart out for my Con Law exam all semester and the professor tested probably 10% of the material in the form of an opinion question. Get over it.

And you will not be successful in law school or the legal profession with that kind of arrogance. Just because you've gone through 1L once does not mean you can "get A's no problem." Each school and each professor and each class is different.

If you have a job lined up after graduation, then who gives a shit what your grades are?

Finally, saying "just quit" IS legitimate advice. You're the one who is too lazy to truthfully analyze the situation and think about the merits of that advice. Search these forums. They are littered with people advising others to drop out with poor 1L grades.

[Minnietron]

2.8 isn't exactly "poor", its just mediocre. I feel like no one properly prepared me for Law School, and teachers did a shit job of actually letting us know what was testable and what wasn't. Now I understand. Now I can get A's, no problem. My tuition is 5grand a semester, so that's not a problem either. As for job opportunities, I already have one lined up after graduation. Not making the Law Review is a bummer because I was planning on teaching one day (not anymore). But no, "just quit bro" is not advice, its a way of saying "I'm too lazy to analyze this situation so I'll just insult your self worth."

1) Even at a mediocre school, saying you can get A's no problem seems a bit disingenuous. Did you get all A's second semester? If not, then why you can now? You know what is testable? Did you not learn that after first semester?

2) As to your interpretation of "just quit bro," I think you may be projecting (or trolling). If you wanted in depth analysis from "2.8 gpa after two semesters - can I restart," then you might have unrealistic expectations of how many useful inferences one can draw from such limited data.

ETA: Scooped by acr.

[TasmanianToucan]

Deep breath. Ok.

First, you can't ask people to analyze a situation taking into account information that you haven't given them. As a general rule, the situation for a person with a 2.8 gpa after 1L can have their situation summed up in one word: FUCKED. The reason for this is simple. If the mean grade is a 3.3, as is typical, then the person is far enough down the curve that the fact that there are more graduating lawyers than entry level legal jobs will jump up and bite them in the ass. But you already have a job lined up, so good for you. But how would anyone here have possibly known that.

Second, if you already have a job lined up, what does it matter? Coast through to your degree and enjoy gainful employment.

Edit: Scooped. Twice. I should post faster.

[TheUnderperformer]

"A 2.8 is poor. If you're not willing to admit that and want to keep sugar coating things, then you're not willing to receive and implement honest advice."

A 2.5 is a dead C, which means average. A 2.8 is a C+, which is slightly (SLIGHTLY) better than average. When you say "poor," I'm picturing a C- or below, which is below the average.

"I can't tell if you're trolling or just throwing a tantrum."

And I'm honestly beginning to wonder what kind of forum this is.

"And yes, there are problems with the structure of legal education."

That's perhaps the biggest understatement I've heard since I began law school.

"I studied my heart out for my Con Law exam all semester and the professor tested probably 10% of the material in the form of an opinion question."

What the...so you're complaining that your exam was too easy?

"And you will not be successful in law school or the legal profession with that kind of arrogance. "

The arrogance that I not quit my profession? Wow, I'm so arrogant. Maybe tomorrow morning I'll be super arrogant and feel entitled to eat breakfast.

"Just because you've gone through 1L once does not mean you can "get A's no problem."

Well, not "no problem." Obviously it takes hard work. But now I know how to: something I had no idea how to do before.

"If you have a job lined up after graduation, then who gives a shit what your grades are?"

I DO. Why would you NOT give a shit about your grades?! That's CRAZY talk.

"Finally, saying "just quit" IS legitimate advice. "

In that it is legitimately bad advice, sure.

"Search these forums. They are littered with people advising others to drop out with poor 1L grades."

The only way this makes sense is if your version of "poor" means "only slightly better than average"

[TheUnderperformer]

1) Well obviously it still takes hard work to get A's. And I did manage two A's in my second semester.

2) Ok, I am seriously doubting that this is a legitimate forum for law school students. I already got the answer in maybe the second reply and the rest has been me defending myself against rude shits that say "just quit."

3)What does "ETA: Scooped by acr" mean?

[JonTheMandamus]

Removed

[TheUnderperformer]

Deep breath. Ok.

First, you can't ask people to analyze a situation taking into account information that you haven't given them. As a general rule, the situation for a person with a 2.8 gpa after 1L can have their situation summed up in one word: FUCKED. The reason for this is simple. If the mean grade is a 3.3, as is typical, then the person is far enough down the curve that the fact that there are more graduating lawyers than entry level legal jobs will jump up and bite them in the ass. But you already have a job lined up, so good for you. But how would anyone here have possibly known that.

Second, if you already have a job lined up, what does it matter? Coast through to your degree and enjoy gainful employment.

Edit: Scooped. Twice. I should post faster.

1) Yes I keep hearing about how, apparently, my school has a different GPA mean than yours. 2.5 is the mean GPA, it is a perfect C. Why GPA in other schools seems to be mathematically stacked to 3.3 seems to just be a way of trying to twist numbers. Most people in my courses get C's. People who do well get B's. People who do VERY well get A's.

2) I have a job lined up but I was hoping to one day teach afterwards. Therefore, the grades are kind of important. But even if I had no plans of teaching, the grades would still be personally important to me. Aren't they important to you?

3) Even is I didn't have a job afterwards, I would practice solo. Nothing will stop me from pursuing this profession, including rude little shits on the internet (not you though).

4) Wtf does "scooped" mean?

[hairbear7]

You seem weirdly angry at all of the sage advice you're getting. Perhaps you should visit law-schools.com instead

[TheUnderperformer]

You seem weirdly angry at all of the sage advice you're getting

"Just quit" is not sage advice. But, like I already said, I already got my answer in the second comment. The rest is basically me defending myself from rude little shits who say I should quit my profession.

[raven1231]

www.rude-little-shits.com

[TheUnderperformer]

There is no fucking way this is a credible forum.

[TasmanianToucan]

1) The typical system makes sense. If the mean score is a C, then for every A there would need to be an F, and for every B a D. Since getting us jobs is good for business and forcing your own students to flunk out is bad, there is a certain logic to moving the mean gpa up to a 3.3.

2) Of course I would rather get better grades than worse ones. But I'm in it for the job. As for teaching, because neither of us are at Harvard or Yale the odds of us getting a law prof gig were always slim to none. Sad but true.

3) Rude shits on the internet rarely stop anyone from doing anything, but I think you're being a little unfair to the people here who are giving you advice. They know a lot, and get irritated when someone comes here asking for their opinion and then gets defensive upon hearing it.

4) Scooped means that someone beat you to posting something you intended to say.

[Mr. Peanutbutter]

Who told you a C is "average"?

[Goldchain]

I don't even know where to being on this so...

[A. Nony Mouse]

This is a legitimate forum, it just doesn't always explain context to everyone who wanders in here. It also skews to top-ranked schools, which don't curve to a C median, but more like a B+. So the fact that your school has a C median tells us something about where it's ranked, which in the abstract is meaningless, but in reality means that it's employment outcomes are not very good, and a job teaching law out of that school is going to be EXTREMELY unlikely.

In any case, since you didn't start out by saying anything about your goals or education costs or having a job lined up, people responded based on their experience, which is that having a 2.8 is going to make getting a job very difficult and might not be worth the investment. That might not be the case for you, but other people don't know that.

My question to you is what would be the point in starting over, even if it were possible? You are unlikely to have changed your qualifications enough to get into a school with significantly better job outcomes, especially not in academia. Having a year of at most average grades isn't going to make you a more desirable applicant. You have a job lined up already and you're not paying much for school. You apparently know how to get As now so can raise your GPA in the next two years. If you did start over I'd imagine you'd have to disclose your transcript from this year to any school/employer who cares about grades anyway. And law schools tend to teach law exactly the same way - what you hate about how your school handles it is going to be the same at pretty much every law school.