Finished just outside top third at T20 -- what now? Forum

[RareExports]

Just received my fall semester grades back and they are .01-.02 lower than the typical top third cutoff at my law school (WUSTL). This is much lower than I expected and much lower than, I think, necessary to get any sort of job I went to law school to get. I realize my GPA is not catastrophically low, but I came to law school to get a large firm job, and even with stellar second semester grades, that path seems inaccessible to me.

Edit: It's not that I only want a large firm job. My desired job is a legal one, but I have financial constraints and preferences. I was using large firm as as proxy for any legal job that pays relatively well (say, over 70k).

I also realize that GPAs can increase second semester, but I'm not sure if/how much I would be able to increase mine. I worked as many hours as I think possible this semester, and, in my opinion, I managed my studying effectively and efficiently. Further, I'm expecting my classmates to write better exams second semester than first. Lastly, my grades were relatively consistent between my courses, which gives me no reason to believe that the way my performance was evaluated was an outlier.

What should I do? Drop out? Give it another semester and hope for the best? Obviously, anecdata are welcomed. TYIA

Other information:
-no ties to the local market
-worked full time in undergrad, but am otherwise KJD
-undergrad GPA is not very high
-on full-tuition scholarship, but taking out loans for living expenses
-average to slightly-below average interviewer
-went to WUSTL on full over a 27k/year Duke scholarship (this information isn't relevant, but is included to caution 0Ls reading this who may be faced with a similar decision)
-not interested in transferring (don't want to take on extra debt; would rather drop out)

[kingpin101]

at my law school (WUSTL)....
I came to law school to get a large firm job

Yeah, those two don't really go together.

[bk1]

(People will probably lambaste you for not taking that Duke offer as well as going to WUSTL at any price if you were biglaw or bust, but that's mostly irrelevant since it's in the past.)

If you truly only want to work in biglaw, I'd at least wait to see your full set of 1L grades (and probably at least give OCI a shot) since you have a full ride. But it's hard to give much better advice without knowing: (1) why do you only want biglaw and no other legal job? and (2) what would you do if you dropped out?

[RareExports]

(People will probably lambaste you for not taking that Duke offer as well as going to WUSTL at any price if you were biglaw or bust, but that's mostly irrelevant since it's in the past.)

If you truly only want to work in biglaw, I'd at least wait to see your full set of 1L grades (and probably at least give OCI a shot) since you have a full ride. But it's hard to give much better advice without knowing: (1) why do you only want biglaw and no other legal job? and (2) what would you do if you dropped out?

I want to work in a well-paying law firm. Size of the firm isn't relevant, but biglaw is a good proxy for high-paying firm jobs. It's not that I'm not interested in other legal work, but it would need to be similarly lucrative, i.e. I really enjoy legal work, but I don't want to forego another two and a half years of lost income just to get a legal job paying 40k. Tbh, I would be pretty happy if I could get any legal job paying over 70k.

I don't know what I would do if I dropped out, which obviously complicates the decision. My previous WE was in a small financial institution.

[bk1]

I want to work in a well-paying law firm. Size of the firm isn't relevant, but biglaw is a good proxy for high-paying firm jobs. It's not that I'm not interested in other legal work, but it would need to be similarly lucrative, i.e. I really enjoy legal work, but I don't want to forego another two and a half years of lost income just to get a legal job paying 40k. Tbh, I would be pretty happy if I could get any legal job paying over 70k.

I don't know what I would do if I dropped out, which obviously complicates the decision. My previous WE was in a small financial institution.

So really what you want is a high salary, with the type of job as a secondary consideration? It seems like you're leaning towards a cost/benefit analysis as to whether the additional schooling (and lost income) will result in higher income over the long run. If that's the case, you really need to have a better idea of what your alternate career paths are before you can decide whether to drop out. Because you don't seem to have much of an idea, I'd get cracking on figuring out what you'd do instead of law and what you would need to do to get there. Once you've figured that out (and decided that it's more beneficial to you than law), I'd start applying for those jobs. Only once you've gotten a job that makes sense would I suggest dropping out.

I think there's a not unrealistic chance that you can get a 70k+ job from your current position. However, it's far from guaranteed and there's a significant chance you don't start at your preferred salary (which would still be true even if you had good grades). I think you also need to assess how comfortable you are with probabilistic outcomes since getting a decent paying legal job could require you to be unsure of your outcome until well into 3L (or even post-grad). Also keep in mind that starting salary is not your permanent salary (e.g., would you be okay starting at 40-50k but raising up to 70k after a number of years?).

[sublime]

..

[jrass]

(People will probably lambaste you for not taking that Duke offer as well as going to WUSTL at any price if you were biglaw or bust, but that's mostly irrelevant since it's in the past.)

If you truly only want to work in biglaw, I'd at least wait to see your full set of 1L grades (and probably at least give OCI a shot) since you have a full ride. But it's hard to give much better advice without knowing: (1) why do you only want biglaw and no other legal job? and (2) what would you do if you dropped out?

I want to work in a well-paying law firm. Size of the firm isn't relevant, but biglaw is a good proxy for high-paying firm jobs. It's not that I'm not interested in other legal work, but it would need to be similarly lucrative, i.e. I really enjoy legal work, but I don't want to forego another two and a half years of lost income just to get a legal job paying 40k. Tbh, I would be pretty happy if I could get any legal job paying over 70k.

I don't know what I would do if I dropped out, which obviously complicates the decision. My previous WE was in a small financial institution.

Just do the same things you were doing and try to focus on what worked for you. Getting consistent grades isn't a bad thing, because the easiest way to do well is to not bomb any classes. The difference between an A- and an A tends to be steeper than the difference between a B+ and an A- so it's possible slight improvements here and there could have you sitting pretty.

[RareExports]

Thanks for the responses, everyone!

bk1: You've hit a lot of it on the head. Hearing it from someone else helps. Thanks!

sublime: Your response is helpful as always, thanks! I'm definitely doing write-on.

I think the cost of staying is pretty low, so this is starting to seem like an easier decision. I think I just needed to write it out and see some responses.

This may be a silly question, but what types of jobs do people between top third and median get from T20s? Like I said, I'm interested in legal work, but I don't want to waste years for a 40k job when I can get that without law school.

[jrass]

Thanks for the responses, everyone!

bk1: You've hit a lot of it on the head. Hearing it from someone else helps. Thanks!

sublime: Your response is helpful as always, thanks! I'm definitely doing write-on.

I think the cost of staying is pretty low, so this is starting to seem like an easier decision. I think I just needed to write it out and see some responses.

This may be a silly question, but what types of jobs do people between top third and median get from T20s? Like I said, I'm interested in legal work, but I don't want to waste years for a 40k job when I can get that without law school.

It's not really a grade : salary kind of thing.

[Good Guy Gaud]

Thanks for the responses, everyone!

bk1: You've hit a lot of it on the head. Hearing it from someone else helps. Thanks!

sublime: Your response is helpful as always, thanks! I'm definitely doing write-on.

I think the cost of staying is pretty low, so this is starting to seem like an easier decision. I think I just needed to write it out and see some responses.

This may be a silly question, but what types of jobs do people between top third and median get from T20s? Like I said, I'm interested in legal work, but I don't want to waste years for a 40k job when I can get that without law school.

It's not really a grade : salary kind of thing.

+1

Bust your ass off and make connections in the area. Even being median isn't going to foreclose the possibility of making good money (much more than $40k/year)

[rpupkin]

I'm going to be blunt: get over yourself, OP. You're at a T20 on a full ride. You're above median after one semester—which, frankly, is at least slightly better than you should have planned on. You're currently in a better position than 95% of the law students in the country.

If you do somewhat better second semester, big law is a realistic option. And even if you just end up between top third and median, you still have a shot at landing a paying firm job. Stick with your full ride for at least another semester. And grow up a little.

[Effingham]

Thanks for the responses, everyone!

bk1: You've hit a lot of it on the head. Hearing it from someone else helps. Thanks!

sublime: Your response is helpful as always, thanks! I'm definitely doing write-on.

I think the cost of staying is pretty low, so this is starting to seem like an easier decision. I think I just needed to write it out and see some responses.

This may be a silly question, but what types of jobs do people between top third and median get from T20s? Like I said, I'm interested in legal work, but I don't want to waste years for a 40k job when I can get that without law school.

At that rank, one of the best things you can do is practice interviewing like crazy. A lot of great firms care a lot about fit and are willing to take someone closer to their cut off if that person can convincingly show they are personable and worth investing in.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Thanks for the responses, everyone!

bk1: You've hit a lot of it on the head. Hearing it from someone else helps. Thanks!

sublime: Your response is helpful as always, thanks! I'm definitely doing write-on.

I think the cost of staying is pretty low, so this is starting to seem like an easier decision. I think I just needed to write it out and see some responses.

This may be a silly question, but what types of jobs do people between top third and median get from T20s? Like I said, I'm interested in legal work, but I don't want to waste years for a 40k job when I can get that without law school.

It's not really a grade : salary kind of thing.

Yeah, it's more like there are jobs that care about grades, and jobs that don't care about grades. You get the latter through connections, networking, hustle, getting experience, and selling your experience. They usually include things like local government, some regional firms, very mission-driven jobs like legal aid. (The latter's not going to get you the $70k job, though.)

[bk1]

bk1: You've hit a lot of it on the head. Hearing it from someone else helps. Thanks!

Happy to help.

I definitely think finishing your first year and probably doing OCI for $10kish is the obvious choice.

If OP's concern includes foregone income, I'm not sure this is necessarily the right call since you'd be looking at 9+ month's worth of potential income.

[sublime]

..

[ForgotMyPassword]

Just wanted to say I was in your position / slightly worse off at WUSTL after first semester and managed to turn it around and nail second semester. My three pieces of advice would be to:

(1) Go over your tests with your profs and figure out where your weakness was (Not fully understanding the material / not spotting issues / not analyzing issues fully / not discerning your professors preferred style);
(2) Either find a good group to study with / exchange outlines with or if you have one already double down and take more practice tests next time; and
(3) Do not coast during any part of second semester in a despondent funk because of your grades. I did that last part for a good bit of second semester, and while I still managed to do quite well it was both risky and I could have done even better if I'd actually applied myself during that time.

You're still in a good position, keep at it! Also what sublime said about LR is spot on.

Edit: Don't know if you're from St. Louis, but if you are you're in an even better position for biglaw at the city firms.

[TetrisBlock]

I'm in a similar boat, op. I actually felt good about my grades until I found out my how great my friends did! I was hoping for median so to be (slightly? I'm not sure; I may be median?) above it at all is good. It would take a huge grade improvement in the spring in order to get my GPA up to a good level for a big law chance, but I feel like there were a lot of things I could have done better in the first semester. I'm looking forward to the semester.

Also, have your professors let you pick up your papers and look at them? It's really interesting to look at what didn't give you points (several paragraphs in my case on one exam) and what gave you more than you expected.

The Journal strategy sounds interesting. I'm planning on working on my LP grade this semester, and with how much of an uphill battle my GPA will be, it may make sense for me to make sure that my LP grade increases before all else. If I could do that and make a good effort on the write-on, I should still have a chance.

Regardless, I'll probably need to learn what mass mailing is.