Phi Kappa Phi: Worth It? Forum

[jaguin1]

Just received an email invitation to join Phi Kappa Phi. I am not convinced it is worth $85 in membership fees. Thoughts either way?

[BearLaw]

I joined 1L year. Paid my fee, got my card (or whatever it was they gave us) and havent done anything with it since. Its a line on my resume. Cant say it was worth it, cant say it wasnt since no one has ever brought it up.

[5ky]

No

[ilikebaseball]

No

[paul554]

I joined for what ever the dues were. Some government jobs let you substitute enrollment in a national honors society for one year of experience for minimum qualifications. Probably will never matter, but for a few bucks it seemed worth it.

[Worker and Parasite]

I joined for what ever the dues were. Some government jobs let you substitute enrollment in a national honors society for one year of experience for minimum qualifications. Probably will never matter, but for a few bucks it seemed worth it.

are you kidding me. where???

[paul554]

I joined for what ever the dues were. Some government jobs let you substitute enrollment in a national honors society for one year of experience for minimum qualifications. Probably will never matter, but for a few bucks it seemed worth it.

are you kidding me. where???

Federal. Just look at the qualifications section on usajobs. Again though, this isn't all GS attorney positions, but you do see it every now and then.

[Strangely Appealing]

From the ACHS site:

'In a letter dated April 13, 1973, the U.S. Civil Service Commission stated, "Membership in a national honor society meets one of the requirements for entrance at the GS-7 level in numerous professional and technical occupations in the Federal service. However, applicants must meet all of the requirements as described in the particular Federal Job Announcement covering the positions for which they apply." This affords a tangible acknowledgment of merit.'

http://www.achsnatl.org/achsbene.asp

Also appears on Alpha Sigma Nu's site. Will edit this with a direct link to the letter if I can find it.

Edit: From the Office of Personnel Management's site - http://www.opm.gov/FAQs/QA.aspx?fid=d5e ... 76d5b7a8ce

*A degree but no specialized experience in a career field, makes one eligible for appointment at the GS-5 grade level. If you maintained at least a B average; were in the upper third of your college, university or major subdivision; or are a member of a national scholastic honor society recognized by the Association of College Honors Societies, you can start out at the GS-7 grade level.)

*To qualify for jobs at the GS-7 and higher grade levels, background must include experience closely related to the work to be performed in the job for which you are applying.

*One can qualify for GS-9 positions on the basis of a master’s degree, and for GS-11 positions on the basis of a doctorate.

Edit for clarity: GS-11 is the grade at which DOJ "main Justice" hires entry-level attorneys (honors program), so the OPM honor society membership policy would not benefit those hires. As far as I know, U.S. Attorneys' Offices consider years of professional employment and previous federal service, but not honor society membership, when assigning an AD grade level to a new AUSA. The lowest AD salary is above that for a GS-7 anyway.

[paul554]

From a recent GS-11 attorney position posting for experience requirements:

In addition, in order to be qualified for this position at the GS-11 you must possess one of the following:

A. One year of professional legal experience equivalent to the GS-9 level in the Federal service. GS-09 or equivalent experience is defined as conducting legal research; preparing tentative drafts of legal documents for use by senior attorneys; assisting with preparations for trial (e.g. interviewing witnesses, identifying line of questioning, drafting findings of facts); and conducting investigations of and providing guidance on issues which have established legal precedent. - OR - B. A second professional law degree (LL.M) that requires one full year of graduate study beyond the J.D. level. - OR -

C. A J.D. or LL.B and possess (a) academic standing in the upper-third of the law school graduating class; (b) work or achievement of significance in the law schools' official law review; (c)special high-level honors for academic excellence in law school, such a selection to the Order of the Coif; (d) winning of a moot court competition or membership on the moot court team representing the law school in competition with other law schools; (e) full-time or continuous participation in a legal aid program as opposed to one-time, intermittent, or casual participation; (f)significant summer law office clerk experience; or (g) other equivalent evidence of superior achievement.

Like I said though, these postings are rare and there are tons of other ways you can qualify usually. This one also doesn't mention phi kappa phi specifically, but I've seen ones in the past that have. Usually DOD or Army seem to mention it specifically, but every job posting is different.

[Strangely Appealing]

From a recent GS-11 attorney position posting for experience requirements:

In addition, in order to be qualified for this position at the GS-11 you must possess one of the following:

A. One year of professional legal experience equivalent to the GS-9 level in the Federal service. GS-09 or equivalent experience is defined as conducting legal research; preparing tentative drafts of legal documents for use by senior attorneys; assisting with preparations for trial (e.g. interviewing witnesses, identifying line of questioning, drafting findings of facts); and conducting investigations of and providing guidance on issues which have established legal precedent. - OR - B. A second professional law degree (LL.M) that requires one full year of graduate study beyond the J.D. level. - OR -

C. A J.D. or LL.B and possess (a) academic standing in the upper-third of the law school graduating class; (b) work or achievement of significance in the law schools' official law review; (c)special high-level honors for academic excellence in law school, such a selection to the Order of the Coif; (d) winning of a moot court competition or membership on the moot court team representing the law school in competition with other law schools; (e) full-time or continuous participation in a legal aid program as opposed to one-time, intermittent, or casual participation; (f)significant summer law office clerk experience; or (g) other equivalent evidence of superior achievement.

Like I said though, these postings are rare and there are tons of other ways you can qualify usually. This one also doesn't mention phi kappa phi specifically, but I've seen ones in the past that have. Usually DOD or Army seem to mention it specifically, but every job posting is different.

I kinda think Coif is a different cut than any of the proliferating honor societies. One way to find out for sure--

[Worker and Parasite]

yeah when I hear honors society, I think Order of the Coif. Which would make sense.

[paul554]

yeah when I hear honors society, I think Order of the Coif. Which would make sense.

I agree. As I said, this job announcement didn't mention phi kappa phi by name. I have seen ones in the past that have, though they are rare. For entry level jobs, I'd say it is at best probably every 1 out of 20. Is it worth $100 bucks for that possible bump in that super rare job announcement that does name it and also happens to fit all the other criteria you have? Probably not, but if your super bent on getting a federal job no matter what, it might not be a horrible investment.

[Aeon]

Having PKP on your resume won't hurt you, and it might help on the margins. If you can spare the $50 or so, why not?

[5ky]

Answer is still no.

[Strangely Appealing]

Answer is still no.

Daddy?

[WHJTMG178]

No

[Nebby]

No