Q about the 1L job search Forum

[1Ljobhunt]

I'm currently at a T2 in NYC [admittedly went against the grain of TLS advice in making my decision, but that's besides the point]

Before school, I worked [hourly salary] for 15 months at a small plaintiff's side personal injury law firm [3-4 people] and I was the lone "assistant". They were/are successful, kind, enjoyable people to work for, and I have no complaints w/r/t how they treated me, what I was exposed to, the work done, etc.

When I left, a new [non-LS] student took my place, so this may be moot if he sticks around but...

My Q is: If I get in touch w/ the new guy & find out he is not returning this summer, would it be wise to contact my boss(es) and ask if they have an availability for me this summer? I left on good terms, and if there's an open spot I would say there's a decent to probable chance they would take me back for a few months. B/c the firm is so small, it's hard to be confident that a full-time 'real lawyer' position will be available next summer/post-graduation, but if there were an opening, I think it's something I would be interested in doing.

So, TLS - what are the pros/cons of going back there for the summer?

I'm at a T2, so my biglaw prospects are 10-15%, and at the moment, it does not feel like I will be hitting that mark. My contacts are NOT that strong, and this law firm is far and away the best "connections" I have to the market. The other option seems to be any public interest, unpaid [w/ stipend] position that requires the usual hustling, applying, interviewing, etc. Upon realizing that the first applications should be going out in about 4 weeks, I feel like I have to decide whether to pursue this old gig before immersing myself in the job hunt 2 weeks before finals.

TL;DR: had old job at small plaintiff's side personal injury firm, looking for pros/cons of pursuing a return vs. searching for a stipend-funded Public Interest position for summer 1L.

[Mal Reynolds]

Just email your bosses and ask. I don't see what's so complicated about this.

[1Ljobhunt]

Easy to ask for the job..

I want to know it it's smart to pursue that job at all.....

ETA: I've read all about judicial internships, I don't wanna "corner" myself into one market, maybe it's good to get a new experience - personally and for resume purposes...

I don't want it to "look bad" to have gone back to the same place where I already spent 15 months if it's gonna have a negative impact on the way future employers look at me. I can't fully figure out the pros/cons of going back vs. getting a new job w/o the advice of people who know much more than I do.

[Mal Reynolds]

No one cares where you work as a 1L. A judicial internship certainly won't be doing you any favors for the 2L job search.

[1Ljobhunt]

what if i didn't view it as [old job] vs. [judicial int] but more like [old job] vs. [any diff job for "diversity"]

also considering that i may not get to do the kind of research/writing that seems to be prevalent in other 1L summer jobs if a large part of role there would require secretary/assistant-type tasks

[Mal Reynolds]

What the hell are you talking about? If your old job isn't a legal position then you shouldn't do that.

[1Ljobhunt]

honestly idk what's so confusing, i think there's enough detail in the OP.

people discuss the merits of certain 1L jobs here all the time.

i worked as a non-lawyer, obviously, in a small law firm.

what are the cons of returning in a potentially similar position to what I had pre-LS?

what are the cons of returning to a small, niche firm, compared to doing something different in the legal field?

I don't see where I'm being confusing man

[Mal Reynolds]

Because you introduced the idea that you might be doing secretarial work for your 1L summer you idiot. That would be very bad since it's not a legal job. It doesn't really matter where you go your 1L summer for big law. But since you likely aren't getting a big law job I guess you should probably start deciding what you want to do after school. So if it's small firm work this position sounds great. If it's PI then do that. Why are you asking simple questions?

[1Ljobhunt]

B/c I don't know the answers to them.

I don't think I'm an idiot but appreciate your input.


[also - can't you put yourself in my position and understand why i don't know how it will look to other lawyers/potential employers? people always say: GET A LEGAL JOB 1L SUMMER, and IT'S IMPORTANT TO BE ABLE TO TALK ABOUT YOUR EXPERIENCE, etc.

Why is it unreasonable to think that it may hurt to get the same job and not add another experience to my resume?]

[Mal Reynolds]

Do you want a small firm job after graduation or a PI position?

[1Ljobhunt]

I would be OK w/ a small firm job, but worried that it's a pretty small pool to limit myself to [if that's what I'm doing] halfway thru Fall 1L

[Mal Reynolds]

1. If this contact of yours doesn't have a full time legal position for you, paid or unpaid, don't consider them.
2. Big law is likely out for you unless you do very well, and even then it's iffy. Nice thing is that your 1L job won't really matter for that.
3. If you want to do PI then I would focus on PI or government work your 1L summer.
4. If you want to do small firm work I would ask these guys if they know of anything and gun hard for that type of thing.
5. Numbers 3 and 4 are somewhat mutually exclusive, meaning that if you do small firm work the PI organizations that you might want in the future will be suspicious of your motives for wanting PI after the big law boat has sailed.

Pick whatever you want. Just don't do a non-full time legal job.

[1Ljobhunt]

thanks a lot.

hoping for other's to chime in w/ further input/diff perspective tomorrow

[Mal Reynolds]

B/c I don't know the answers to them.

I don't think I'm an idiot but appreciate your input.


[also - can't you put yourself in my position and understand why i don't know how it will look to other lawyers/potential employers? people always say: GET A LEGAL JOB 1L SUMMER, and IT'S IMPORTANT TO BE ABLE TO TALK ABOUT YOUR EXPERIENCE, etc.

Why is it unreasonable to think that it may hurt to get the same job and not add another experience to my resume?]

I don't know why you think returning to an old job would be seen as a bad thing if they had a full time legal position for you. "I loved my old position so much that I was extremely excited to go back and work more closely with the attorneys and really gain insight into more complex legal matters." Weighing the costs and benefits of doing small firm work or PI work for your 1L summer can only be done if you know what you might want to do after graduation. If you don't know that then there isn't a lot of information people can give you.

[banjo]

thanks a lot.

hoping for other's to chime in w/ further input/diff perspective tomorrow

Just to reaffirm what Mal said, you shouldn't take an administrative position -- anywhere -- for your 1L summer. Focus on summer jobs that require you to do legal research and analysis, preferably somewhere that moves you toward your career goals.

[GOATlawman]

idk why Mal Reynolds keeps responding when he clearly has no clue about what small law entails...



(below, I'm assuming it was a low end PI mill, and not a highly regarded wrongful death boutique etc..)

I would go elsewhere if I were you. I would go there ONLY if you think it is likely that they would hire you after graduation.

Even if they do take you, small firms like this are very unlikely to give you great experience, but I suppose that depends on your goals. If you finish top of the class and BigLaw is actually in reach, yea it probably doesn't matter, but it is still helpful if you're somewhere where you did legitimate research or writing. Both are unlikely at a PI mill.

As their paralegal or whatever, you probably have already learned everything you can from there anyways, so a couple months at a different firm or other job would almost certainly look better, especially if the firm is larger. When you interview you want to be able to talk about similar work you've done. For Biglaw, this means having poured through cases in WestLaw and drafted some stupid memo, I'm doubting anyone ever does this at your old firm. Small law firms obviously want someone more in tune with their skill set, so if that's your plan, go somewhere that would give you substantive experience and not just treat you like an extra paralegal for 3 months. This means letting you run client meetings, appearing in court, etc. This can be tough to find in small firms simply because they don't really look to hire summers so aren't really set up to create some "fake" job for a few months

You should obviously take a job anywhere that it is likely would hire you after graduation over a job that wouldn't (I'm sure you have a good sense of the probability at your old firm)

[1Ljobhunt]

Thanks for the responses.

anyone have anything else to add?

[lacrossebrother]

Agreed. Stay away from plaintiff work unless it's a top notch firm. Try emailing all the 10-30 person defense firms around you telling them you're ready to work.

[1Ljobhunt]

looks like all the advice is tipping one way....

thanks a lot for the responses.

any other TLS'ers w/ input?

[sam91]

looks like all the advice is tipping one way....

thanks a lot for the responses.

any other TLS'ers w/ input?

I am in a very similar situation. I worked at a small plaintiffs firm in Brooklyn that does real estate, personal injury, and a ton of no fault. Very small, 2 attorneys, and have expressed interest in me working there upon graduation (although that seems light years away). Granted I go to a tier 3, so your job opportunities elsewhere may be greater than mine, but I see it as kind of a no-brainer, especially 1L summer. Also, in my state (i dont know the law in other jurisdictions) but i am able to run closings, appear at arbitrations, under the supervision of an attorney. If the situation is similar for you, I think you cannot hurt yourself by returning. Whereas in an attempt to go somewhere else you may be sitting there in June thinking fuck, this is stupid.

Just my input. Good Luck man.

[jbagelboy]

Id take another gig before heading back to the small firm. Then you'll have a mix of references, and if you wind up having to go the PI route as most students in your position do, it'll be important to have some background to refer back to.

Moreover, I think your anxiety about this decision is misplaced. The 1L hiring cycle does not consist of Dec 1 to winter break. People find perfectly appropriate legal jobs throughout the spring. You can chill out and worry about this later.