battery question (torts) Forum

[JackOfAllTrades]

I am confused about the "substantial certainty" element of intent.

I know that intent means

either:

the person acts with the purpose of producing that consequence;

OR

the person acts knowing that the consequence is substantially certain to result

What if the person knows facts that a "reasonable person" would use to infer that the event was substantially certain to occur, but the person nonetheless had no idea that it would occur?

Say for instance, I see someone walking on the street, and I, from my fifth floor window, throw water out the window. A reasonable person would probably be substantially certain that some of that water would hit the person. But I am not very reasonable and thought that the water probably wouldn't hit the person. I am liable for battery if water hits the person?

[lukertin]

you don't know the consequence is substantially certain to result, so the requisite intent is not there.

it can be said you should have known (which is negligent tort, not intentional tort)

[Young Marino]

I am confused about the "substantial certainty" element of intent.

I know that intent means

either:

the person acts with the purpose of producing that consequence;

OR

the person acts knowing that the consequence is substantially certain to result

What if the person knows facts that a "reasonable person" would use to infer that the event was substantially certain to occur, but the person nonetheless had no idea that it would occur?

Say for instance, I see someone walking on the street, and I, from my fifth floor window, throw water out the window. A reasonable person would probably be substantially certain that some of that water would hit the person. But I am not very reasonable and thought that the water probably wouldn't hit the person. I am liable for battery if water hits the person?

Depends. Was you're fifth story window in a crowded city where people walk near the apartment all the time? Maybe you know some guys are doing construction outside? If so you were probably substantially certain that by tossing the bottle, you would hit someone because you are aware that there are people outside. If you're apartment is in a complex that not a lot people walk around in, it's not substantially certain becuase you are aware that there are rarely any people outside your place and then it becomes negligence.

[2807]

I am confused about the "substantial certainty" element of intent.

I know that intent means

either:

the person acts with the purpose of producing that consequence;

OR

the person acts knowing that the consequence is substantially certain to result

What if the person knows facts that a "reasonable person" would use to infer that the event was substantially certain to occur, but the person nonetheless had no idea that it would occur?

Say for instance, I see someone walking on the street, and I, from my fifth floor window, throw water out the window. A reasonable person would probably be substantially certain that some of that water would hit the person. But I am not very reasonable and thought that the water probably wouldn't hit the person. I am liable for battery if water hits the person?

Remember: Intent = you INTENDED to commit THE ACT, not necessarily ... hit someone with water.

1. Do not consider the "reasonableness" of the actual offender. It is a mythical "reasonable person" that is the measurement.
Scroll down to "rationale" and read Holmes's famous words...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reasonable_person

2. Your consideration of the actual offender's thoughts would be nothing more than his defense argument, and he would be swimming upstream on that.

Your concern is answered in your own hypo when you state... "A reasonable person would probably be substantially certain that some of that water would hit the person." THAT'S IT. STOP.

Substantial certainty: The analysis you make to address the reasonable result of an act or omission. NOT the actor's mindset.

Remember, this is about analysis NOT answers.

There are no right answers, just right ARGUMENTS.

The force is strong in you. Just turn that insight into a reasonable argument to the reasonable man.

Onward !