Using old outlines Forum

[TheSpanishMain]

Got some outlines for my 1L classes that look pretty good. I've been doing the readings in standard neurotic 1L fashion, but so far these outlines look pretty solid. I've also been building my own outline as we finish each section, but I wonder if I'm reinventing the wheel for no reason.

What's the best way to use these old outlines? Use them as a reference in making my own? Tweak them? Just use them as-is? My first thought is that it's not smart not making my own, but I also wonder if making my own from scratch is pointless busy work.

[shifty_eyed]

The process of outlining was more useful for me than the actual end product. I didn't finish my own outlines second semester and ended up relying on old ones more, but I wouldn't have taken that risk first semester. I wouldn't prioritize outlining over doing practice tests, though, but I would plan on outlining on your own first.

[FSK]

The semester I performed the best, I used the old outlines. For me, creating outlines from scratch didn't provide any value. Revising them intensely did, however. I put the language + formatting + organization in the way I could utilize best on exams. I used the extra time to do more with E&E's and practice exams.

[arklaw13]

I exclusively use old outlines if I can find good ones. Fwiw my performance is steady between classes where I used old ones and classes where I made my own.

As long as the old one is from the same professors class, I would just tweak it with any minor changes you want and then make a short attack outline from it.

[Desert Fox]

It really depends on

1) How you learn - some learn by writing their own, some people learn by reading, some learn by practicing.

2) how good you can outline.

I learn by practicing and write shit outlines. So using others peoples is a no brainer.

I'd set a "failsafe" date where you either have your outlines done, or you just go with the ones you have. A huge mistake I saw during 1L was that some people were rushing to finish an outline right before the exam date. That left no time for memorizing it and practicing with it. Huge mistake.

IMO your failsafe should be 2 weeks before finals start.

[DoveBodyWash]

i had old outlines open on my computer during class so i could follow along and stuff, but i made my own for exams. I don't think there's any real substitute for wrestling with the material on your own. But the crucial exercise is applying the law to hypos by taking practice tests, and i guess that u can do that using someone else's outline if you're capable of understanding it 100% through their material.

If you're gonna use old outlines then try to get more than one so you can cross-check them with each other for errors...and definitely only get them from sources that you trust

[checkers]

Disclaimer: 1L as well. When people warn against using old outlines, I think they are referring to using them as-is without having poured over and massaged them. Starting from scratch just seems to be a waste of time that could be better spent practicing for the exam.

If you have old outlines that you think are quality, I don't think it's a problem to build off of them. Pick one that structurally makes sense to you, and begin tweaking and rephrasing as you see fit. Iteratively go through other outlines, class notes, and supplements to pull new/better information (if any), and insert it into the initially-selected outline. Synthesize, reformat, edit and polish until the outline is more yours than what you started with.

[B.B. Homemaker]

No, you take old outlines, print them out, and then build on them as necessary with in-class notes. And then practice exam like a mofo. The secret to 1L is that you have very finite time and a lot to do in it, so don't waste time reinventing the wheel.

(Yes, in an ideal world, you'd make all your own everything and know everything in and out and blahblahblah, but practice exams are seriously where it's at.)

[AReasonableMan]

If you don't write so much it won't be so hard to outline. Trust you are smart enough to filter out the bullshit. Most of any case, lecture or comment is bullshit. Just save the meat.

[arklaw13]

I second the advice about keeping your outlines short. I've never written any longer than 20 pages.

[DoveBodyWash]

I second the advice about keeping your outlines short. I've never written any longer than 20 pages.

+1

Torts can literally be reduced to one page of just the elements. If you're taking a horse race exam then you should practice to the point where you don't even have to look at your outline at all during the test.

[Balthy]

It really depends on

1) How you learn - some learn by writing their own, some people learn by reading, some learn by practicing.

2) how good you can outline.

I learn by practicing and write shit outlines. So using others peoples is a no brainer.

I'd set a "failsafe" date where you either have your outlines done, or you just go with the ones you have. A huge mistake I saw during 1L was that some people were rushing to finish an outline right before the exam date. That left no time for memorizing it and practicing with it. Huge mistake.

IMO your failsafe should be 2 weeks before finals start.

Thanks for the advice.. i think im the kind of person prone to making that mistake. im also wondering, when should one start writing/revising outlines? i am pretty behind and want to catch up before having to start the whole outlining process.

[Mal Reynolds]

I did much better when I stopped making my own outlines. There was just absolutely no way I was going to make a crim outline with common law, MPC and all the case law. So I found a really good one and edited it a little.

So just do what you think will work for you.

[AReasonableMan]

I second the advice about keeping your outlines short. I've never written any longer than 20 pages.

+1

Torts can literally be reduced to one page of just the elements. If you're taking a horse race exam then you should practice to the point where you don't even have to look at your outline at all during the test.

I meant not taking notes on everything, and only having the stuff you think you'll actually use. The process of outlining helps you learn, so I think it's at least as useful as reading cases, and probably much more useful. I agree that being like the fat kid in The Paper Chase with the huge outline is less than ideal. As a general matter, don't focus so much on the assignments given to you themselves, and focus on doing what you think will be best for you. Cold calls be damned, the syllabus is a guide, not a statute.

[doctoroflaw91]

i had old outlines open on my computer during class so i could follow along and stuff, but i made my own for exams. I don't think there's any real substitute for wrestling with the material on your own. But the crucial exercise is applying the law to hypos by taking practice tests, and i guess that u can do that using someone else's outline if you're capable of understanding it 100% through their material.

If you're gonna use old outlines then try to get more than one so you can cross-check them with each other for errors...and definitely only get them from sources that you trust

This. I did precisely this, using old outlines to prepare for class and make sure that I had understood the major points of the readings, and preparing my own throughout the semester.

If you can get your hands on old exams from the professor, see if you can gear your outline towards the types of questions that they ask. For instance, my constitutional law professor asks heavily theory-based questions that ask students to make arguments and anticipate counterarguments. My outline was basically a checklist of the various arguments pertaining to each topic (commerce clause, treaty power, etc.) that I was able to quickly apply on the exam.

[TheSpanishMain]

Thanks for the input everyone, much appreciated.

[RCSOB657]

Related, so I'm asking here.

Where do you get old outlines?

Are they public, do you have to look for them on pin-up board advertisements, etc?

[butlerraider1]

Related, so I'm asking here.

Where do you get old outlines?

Are they public, do you have to look for them on pin-up board advertisements, etc?

2ls and 3ls

[AReasonableMan]

Related, so I'm asking here.

Where do you get old outlines?

Are they public, do you have to look for them on pin-up board advertisements, etc?

2ls and 3ls

If you have a good relationship with an upperclass(wo)man, ask about your professor. Many would be able to pinpoint you in the direction of someone who had the professor who turns out to have a friend who got an A. If it wasn't frowned upon at my school, I would rather send outlines of classes I did well in to people I like so it gives them more of a benefit. If everyone has the same outline you're only creating more work for everyone.

[JJ123]

Be careful with civ pro. Several recent cases there that could screw you up.

[Mal Reynolds]

Be careful with civ pro. Several recent cases there that could screw you up.

Only an idiot would use an outline and not compare it with their syllabus. Thanks for the great advice.

[JustHawkin]

Got some outlines for my 1L classes that look pretty good. I've been doing the readings in standard neurotic 1L fashion, but so far these outlines look pretty solid. I've also been building my own outline as we finish each section, but I wonder if I'm reinventing the wheel for no reason.

What's the best way to use these old outlines? Use them as a reference in making my own? Tweak them? Just use them as-is? My first thought is that it's not smart not making my own, but I also wonder if making my own from scratch is pointless busy work.

I'm so jealous of the array of outlines you guys have for The 'Nath...