Possible my school grouped our class sections by LSAT/GPA? Forum

[Donnis]

I go to a TTTT.

After orientation and intro class, I notice the "stronger" personalities, those who gunned through the entire orientation and seemed to be like overall more intelligent students all tended to be one section. Our 1L class is divided into 2 sections.

Is it possible they just split students with the highest half of LSAT/GPA scores to one section and the lowest half to another?

My theory was that somehow this would allow the lower half to have "fairer" chance as far the curve goes, not being mixed in with students far more intelligent. I figured it was in the school's interest to retain as many students as possible after the first year and somehow by grouping them in this manner, would allow those more likely to drop/fail out, a less likely chance. Furthermore, those who have scored average grades, would be bumped up slightly do to these more intelligent students not being in the class.

Or am I completely wrong and grading normalization is the whole purpose so things like this do not happen?

[03152016]

out your school

also google section stacking and see if your school has been accused of it before

eta: i don't think they're doing what you're saying they're doing though
if there's section stacking happening it has to do with $$$

[Donnis]

out your school

also google section stacking and see if your school has been accused of it before

eta: i don't think they're doing what you're saying they're doing though
if there's section stacking happening it has to do with $$$

What are the implications for students in the top half section? The lower half?

Simply making an observation. Cannot say that overall stronger personalities and "interesting" people = higher LSAT and GPA scores but it seems like all those in one particular section are much more motivated and overwhelming gunners.

[Donnis]

Did some quick reading, seems the main issue is really scholarship renewal. I'm not concerned about this. I'm more concerened about its effect on class rank.

If you were in the lower section = better chances at a higher class rank? Higher section = worse chances at higher class rank? Is that accurate?

[sideroxylon]

OP

I either appreciate your flame if you're flame

or pity you greatly and hope you drop out of law school

I feel like substantively responding to anything you say would be encouragement so I'm just going to close this with an assortment of smilies.

[Donnis]

OP

I either appreciate your flame if you're flame

or pity you greatly and hope you drop out of law school

I feel like substantively responding to anything you say would be encouragement so I'm just going to close this with an assortment of smilies.

Not a flame, would appreciate a response.

[adpc]

You should drop out. Seriously.

[sideroxylon]

OP

I either appreciate your flame if you're flame

or pity you greatly and hope you drop out of law school

I feel like substantively responding to anything you say would be encouragement so I'm just going to close this with an assortment of smilies.

Not a flame, would appreciate a response.

I pity you greatly and hope you drop out of law school.

[Donnis]

Let's get past the point of encouraging me to drop out.

Explain to me where I went wrong? And no, do not say attending law school.

Why is it so hard to get a straight answer? Every reply is either "don't attend" or "drop out". Lets forget those as options right now and stick to my OP.

[adpc]

You got a 2.6 GPA in a CJ major. You scored in the 140's on the LSAT. You seem to think you will be top 10% of your potentially-section-stacking TTTT.

You should drop out.

ETA: seriously.

[FKASunny]

Did some quick reading, seems the main issue is really scholarship renewal. I'm not concerned about this. I'm more concerened about its effect on class rank.

If you were in the lower section = better chances at a higher class rank? Higher section = worse chances at higher class rank? Is that accurate?

Section stacking only makes sense for the school if scholarship money is on the line. Have a 3.0 stipulation on scholarships, make a 3.0 top 20%, give full rides out like candy to boost your median, and then put all the scholly recipients into a section. BOOM you've eliminated 80% of your scholarship obligations after the first year.

Also, a lot of TTTs purposefully fail out a certain portion of their class in an effort to keep bar passage rates high enough to keep accreditation, so it's not necessarily in their best interest to prevent attrition.

You say you're not worried about the scholarship implications. If you have a full ride with no stips, then great! If you're not worried because you are paying to go there, or you think you will end up high enough in your class to keep your scholarship, then you need to drop out now if you can get tuition reimbursement.

[Donnis]

You got a 2.6 GPA in a CJ major. You scored in the 140's on the LSAT. You seem to think you will be top 10% of your potentially-section-stacking TTTT.

You should drop out.

ETA: seriously.

If there was section stacking, what are the implications of it?

Straight answer somebody, please.

[Donnis]

Did some quick reading, seems the main issue is really scholarship renewal. I'm not concerned about this. I'm more concerened about its effect on class rank.

If you were in the lower section = better chances at a higher class rank? Higher section = worse chances at higher class rank? Is that accurate?

Section stacking only makes sense for the school if scholarship money is on the line. Have a 3.0 stipulation on scholarships, make a 3.0 top 20%, give full rides out like candy to boost your median, and then put all the scholly recipients into a section. BOOM you've eliminated 80% of your scholarship obligations after the first year.

Also, a lot of TTTs purposefully fail out a certain portion of their class in an effort to keep bar passage rates high enough to keep accreditation, so it's not necessarily in their best interest to prevent attrition.

You say you're not worried about the scholarship implications. If you have a full ride with no stips, then great! If you're not worried because you are paying to go there, or you think you will end up high enough in your class to keep your scholarship, then you need to drop out now if you can get tuition reimbursement.

Thank you.

[jw316]

OP

I either appreciate your flame if you're flame

or pity you greatly and hope you drop out of law school

I feel like substantively responding to anything you say would be encouragement so I'm just going to close this with an assortment of smilies.

Not a flame, would appreciate a response.

If not a flame I know of a TTT in Southeast Michigan (31.8% Employment Score; 37.9% Under-Employment Score; 1.9% Unknown Score via LST) that does that. My roommate goes to said TTT and so I got to interact with roomies classmates at bars and such throughout the semester. Take this with a grain of salt because I was only around these people briefly, but there were two sections which they jokingly referred to as the "smart" and "dumb" sections rather than 1 and 2.

Well a lot of the "smart" kids in the "smart" section were on scholarships and actually ended up failing classes and retaking/failing out and pursuing other things/switching to part-time night school at this TTT. The kids in the "dumb" section weren't on scholarships and frankly I didn't understand how a lot of them were ever admitted to law school.

I don't have any evidence but in the above case, and to your point about splitting a section by LSAT/GPA, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that's how they were grouped, and it just so happened that besides the disparities in students (higher together in one group; lower together in the other group) the result was that many of the scholarship kids were grouped together in the "smart" section (with the curve someone has to lose their scholly) and then the non-scholarship kids together in the "dumb" section.

[McAvoy]

You got a 2.6 GPA in a CJ major. You scored in the 140's on the LSAT. You seem to think you will be top 10% of your potentially-section-stacking TTTT.

You should drop out.

ETA: seriously.

[jw316]

Did some quick reading, seems the main issue is really scholarship renewal. I'm not concerned about this. I'm more concerened about its effect on class rank.

If you were in the lower section = better chances at a higher class rank? Higher section = worse chances at higher class rank? Is that accurate?

Section stacking only makes sense for the school if scholarship money is on the line. Have a 3.0 stipulation on scholarships, make a 3.0 top 20%, give full rides out like candy to boost your median, and then put all the scholly recipients into a section. BOOM you've eliminated 80% of your scholarship obligations after the first year.

Also, a lot of TTTs purposefully fail out a certain portion of their class in an effort to keep bar passage rates high enough to keep accreditation, so it's not necessarily in their best interest to prevent attrition.

You say you're not worried about the scholarship implications. If you have a full ride with no stips, then great! If you're not worried because you are paying to go there, or you think you will end up high enough in your class to keep your scholarship, then you need to drop out now if you can get tuition reimbursement.

TCR. Much more succinct and better worded than what I was trying to get across.

[pancakes3]

This is so depressing. I'm sorry, OP. Section stacking should be publicized more when people ask about TTTT's in addition to the usual "no job, drown in debt" advice. Offering a 3.0 stip for scholly's is basically the school telling you you're only going to get 1 year of scholly only you'e too dumb to know it.

[McAvoy]

This is so depressing. I'm sorry, OP. Section stacking should be publicized more when people ask about TTTT's in addition to the usual "no job, drown in debt" advice. Offering a 3.0 stip for scholly's is basically the school telling you you're only going to get 1 year of scholly only you'e too dumb to know it.

Worst part is, a lot of TTTTs make you pay back your scholarship if you transfer or drop out.

[Attax]

This is so depressing. I'm sorry, OP. Section stacking should be publicized more when people ask about TTTT's in addition to the usual "no job, drown in debt" advice. Offering a 3.0 stip for scholly's is basically the school telling you you're only going to get 1 year of scholly only you'e too dumb to know it.

Worst part is, a lot of TTTTs make you pay back your scholarship if you transfer or drop out.

Seriously? That's pretty TTT of them.

[NotMyRealName09]

Am I the only one who picked up the OP's desire for someone to confirm this is true and also confirm OP is in the smart class?

[NotMyRealName09]

This is so depressing. I'm sorry, OP. Section stacking should be publicized more when people ask about TTTT's in addition to the usual "no job, drown in debt" advice. Offering a 3.0 stip for scholly's is basically the school telling you you're only going to get 1 year of scholly only you'e too dumb to know it.

Worst part is, a lot of TTTTs make you pay back your scholarship if you transfer or drop out.

This is dubious. Support with citations.

[NotMyRealName09]

OP - who gives a shit. Destroy your class and take all the As. Nothing matters beyond that, transcripts aren't annotated with stars for the special section.

[A. Nony Mouse]

This is so depressing. I'm sorry, OP. Section stacking should be publicized more when people ask about TTTT's in addition to the usual "no job, drown in debt" advice. Offering a 3.0 stip for scholly's is basically the school telling you you're only going to get 1 year of scholly only you'e too dumb to know it.

Worst part is, a lot of TTTTs make you pay back your scholarship if you transfer or drop out.

This is dubious. Support with citations.

Someone posted here recently about how he was considering transferring out of American but he'd have to pay back his scholarship. But it was a special PI scholarship that I think included an after-graduation fellowship/stipend? Not that that makes it okay, but it was unclear whether other scholarships had the same condition. Not sure it's been confirmed any/many other places so I don't know how many schools do this.

[03152016]

http://www.wcl.american.edu/finaid/pipsscholarship.cfm
here it is for anyone interested

[BVest]

http://www.wcl.american.edu/finaid/pipsscholarship.cfm
here it is for anyone interested

What I find amazing about that is not that a certain special scholarship requires that it be repaid (which, let's face it, is a little shitty... then again if you're going there on a PI scholarship it's not like you were expecting to make bank upon graduation -- you were expecting to do PI), but rather this little nugget:

"a scholar who chooses to withdraw or transfer from the law school will be required to pay back the full amount of tuition . . . plus any other WCL grants or scholarships."

So by accepting the PI scholarship, you add the same repayment stipulation to all your other scholarships.