Should I drop out? Crappy grades @ T14 paying sticker Forum

[whatdoido]

Hey all. I've been struggling with my decision about whether to stay in law school or not (or take a leave of absence) and wanted to get some feedback from TLS folks, potentially those who have been in a similar situation. Below median GPA (~2.9). I'm aware of TLS pro-drop out tendencies but really, even when objective factors like a horrible GPA and lots of potential debt make this seem like a no brainer, deciding to cut your losses and leave is still really tough.

Basically I had a really shitty 1L year, due primarily to mental health issues that threw my focus and ability to cope with stress completely out of whack. I came in loving law school and the idea of being a lawyer (but with these aforementioned mental health issues), until my 1st semester grades came back and it was evident that law school had kicked my ass. I did a little bit better 2nd semester but suffered physically and mentally, and still feel completely worn down and like I've had no space to recover since I had to start my summer job.

These all sound like "pro" dropping out reasons. Some reasons for wanting to stay: 1) I still might want to be an attorney (though with my grades, big law is probably out (right?) and I'm not sure what kind of PI/gov work I want to do) and found my classes interesting; 2) I've made some friends here, and my SO is here; 3) I'm expected to be in a leadership position and on a journal next year; 4) my family is super proud of me and I really hate the idea of letting them, or myself, down; 5) see 4 but with respect to friends. 6) I have no idea what I'd do for a job/career after this summer, or even where I would go.

Cut my losses and leave? Take a leave of absence?
Is taking a leave and coming back career suicide? If I did come back, is my 1L GPA going to preclude me from getting any job capable of paying back these loans? If people here have dropped out/taken a leave after 1L, what did you end up doing?

Any advice sincerely appreciated.

TL;DR: I'm at a T14, and think I still want to be a lawyer or at least earn a JD, but 1L kicked my ass and I'm hurting, physically and mentally. What do I do?

[InTheHouse]

What would you do if you passed on law school?

[bsktbll28082]

What's your total debt if you stay? I know you're paying sticker, but include undergrad in your calculation and COL.

[whatdoido]

Assuming that by "passed on" you mean leaving: I really don't know yet. I think I'd take a little time off to recover and then explore what in the hell would make me happy. Something in the creative field or learn web developing because that can be $$ and sounds more fun.


Total debt if I stay would be ~$210k

I also have 3 years WE pre law school

[InTheHouse]

Personally, I wouldn't outright quit. It doesn't sound like you're in the state of mind to make any decisions that you can't take back. Try to see if you can get your head straight this summer. If you can't, a leave of absence might be a good way to buy yourself more time.

[heavoldgotjuice]

How bad do you want it? How risk averse are you? How debt averse are you?

Objectively, you should probably drop out. But if you feel you're "special", or have an usual sense of motivation, I would say stay. Go with your gut (as long as your gut has not led you wrong in the past I guess? lol)

Really only you can decide - most people here will tell you to drop out.

[whatdoido]

Thanks for the feedback guys. At the moment, my head feels so clouded that I can't even determine how badly I want it. Right now it doesn't feel like I want it so badly--for example, OCI is looming and I haven't put in any effort for it. But, I do fear I'll just succumb to inertia and stay the course.

[mr.hands]

Look into a leave of absence. That at least leaves open the idea of coming back

[homestyle28]

I'm assuming you're getting help for your mental health...but assuming you'll still shoot for biglaw this fall, how do you imagine explaining your grades to employers? You'll have to have a plausible explanation, and lets face it, telling them about your mental health struggles isn't going to cut it. Also, have you seriously considered whether a legal career is a suitable match for your health issues? Lawyers, by and large, are depressed and unhappy people (lots of studies on this). If you're already predisposed to this kind of thing, what makes you think you'll be able to avoid it? If you are unlikely to avoid being depressed later on, why would you take on $210k in debt for that kind of future? It's great that you liked the idea of being a lawyer before law school, but that might have been a delusion unless it was based on extensive knowledge of actual lawyers.

[NYSprague]

You need to take a leave of absence. Get your health repaired and then decide.

[Druid]

Get it in gear right now. Mass mail and do OCI. If you strike out, drop out before the semester starts.

[whatdoido]

Thanks everyone. You raise some good questions that I need to think about, homestyle. I have some WE in law as a paralegal so it wasn't a totally delusional decision, just a masochistic one.

Get it in gear right now. Mass mail and do OCI. If you strike out, drop out before the semester starts.

If I do OCI, strike out, then take a leave, would I get another shot at OCI if I came back? I'm guessing not but let me know if otherwise

[scaliaantics]

Get it in gear right now. Mass mail and do OCI. If you strike out, drop out before the semester starts.

This is the correct advice. Don't pay tuition until after you know you have a job.

[Big Dog]

mass mail, OCI and if a negative result, take a leave of absence to address your health issues. Get counseling and decide if LS is for you next year. If so, you can return -- assuming the finances are there. But note, if you have loans, will a leave require immediate repayments?

[NYSprague]

Get it in gear right now. Mass mail and do OCI. If you strike out, drop out before the semester starts.

Does OP sound in shape to do this or manage another year of school? I can't tell. OP you are going to have to decide this. But be honest to yourself about your health.

[NYSprague]

mass mail, OCI and if a negative result, take a leave of absence to address your health issues. Get counseling and decide if LS is for you next year. If so, you can return -- assuming the finances are there. But note, if you have loans, will a leave require immediate repayments?

If OP has loans she can go on PAYE. One year of loans can't be that terrible to manage .

[It's A Lion]

Probably best to seek the advice of a counselor at your school. They've got experience assisting people in your situation and they can probably help you sort things out.

[whatdoido]

Thanks for the responses guys. I feel sooooo unready for upcoming OCI. Might be helpful to know: is big law off the table with a 2.9 at a T10?

[thelawyerguy]

Thanks for the responses guys. I feel sooooo unready for upcoming OCI. Might be helpful to know: is big law off the table with a 2.9 at a T10?

Most likely, unless you have ties to a secondary regional market (i.e. in the south or flyover country). Even then it's going to be difficult.

[NYSprague]

Thanks for the responses guys. I feel sooooo unready for upcoming OCI. Might be helpful to know: is big law off the table with a 2.9 at a T10?

Are you last in your class? Do you understand the competition for jobs?
If it helps, yes, big law is off the table for your GPA.
You should get some counseling and take time to get back on track.
But you sound like you don't want to take advice.
You post about how confused and beat up you are, but now you want to know if you can still get a job that will eat you up?

[shredderrrrrr]

Hey all. I've been struggling with my decision about whether to stay in law school or not (or take a leave of absence) and wanted to get some feedback from TLS folks, potentially those who have been in a similar situation. Below median GPA (~2.9). I'm aware of TLS pro-drop out tendencies but really, even when objective factors like a horrible GPA and lots of potential debt make this seem like a no brainer, deciding to cut your losses and leave is still really tough.

Basically I had a really shitty 1L year, due primarily to mental health issues that threw my focus and ability to cope with stress completely out of whack. I came in loving law school and the idea of being a lawyer (but with these aforementioned mental health issues), until my 1st semester grades came back and it was evident that law school had kicked my ass. I did a little bit better 2nd semester but suffered physically and mentally, and still feel completely worn down and like I've had no space to recover since I had to start my summer job.

These all sound like "pro" dropping out reasons. Some reasons for wanting to stay: 1) I still might want to be an attorney (though with my grades, big law is probably out (right?) and I'm not sure what kind of PI/gov work I want to do) and found my classes interesting; 2) I've made some friends here, and my SO is here; 3) I'm expected to be in a leadership position and on a journal next year; 4) my family is super proud of me and I really hate the idea of letting them, or myself, down; 5) see 4 but with respect to friends. 6) I have no idea what I'd do for a job/career after this summer, or even where I would go.

Cut my losses and leave? Take a leave of absence?
Is taking a leave and coming back career suicide? If I did come back, is my 1L GPA going to preclude me from getting any job capable of paying back these loans? If people here have dropped out/taken a leave after 1L, what did you end up doing?

Any advice sincerely appreciated.

TL;DR: I'm at a T14, and think I still want to be a lawyer or at least earn a JD, but 1L kicked my ass and I'm hurting, physically and mentally. What do I do?

For whatever it's worth, I had to make a similar decision and thus sympathize with you. My first semester kicked my ass and I immediately thought of dropping out. My fiancee convinced me to keep going, so I gave the second semester a chance. It went better, but was still not as successful as I felt it could have been. I wanted to drop out (but had no idea what else I would do!). Despite having been a good student prior to law school and loving what I was learning at law school, it seemed I wasn't cut out for it. What saved me? I had a job lined up that summer and I decided to do it as planned. The job showed me that I wanted to be a lawyer. Despite shitty grades, I learned that I wanted the end product. My 2L year was fantastic. Somehow, I turned everything around and made a huge jump in class rank.

The reason I am telling you this is because I couldn't imagine a bigger difference between the two years. I don't know how your school works specifically, but 2L was much more manageable for me for a variety of reasons: I got to pick my classes, I got pick when I took my finals, most classes weren't curved, and I was comfortable with the whole law school process after 1L year. Also, a bad 1L year is not the end of the world. I went from around median to well within the top third without changing anything I was doing--I'm thinking maybe other people stopped trying as hard? So you can turn it around--it's easier than you'd expect. The question is just whether the goal is worth it to you.

TL;DR: If you want to be a lawyer, keep going--it can get much better.

[FlanAl]

I'd say you need to get a lot of the variables pinned down before you make a decision. I would also see if you can do 1L over again. It seems like a few people take a leave of absence and then do 1L over again and this might be what you need. Also, I would really really evaluate if a big law career is right for you. And do not look at gov/pi as a fall back, if you aren't doing it this summer you'll have a tough time doing it next summer and after law school.

[shredderrrrrr]

Thanks for the responses guys. I feel sooooo unready for upcoming OCI. Might be helpful to know: is big law off the table with a 2.9 at a T10?

Are you last in your class? Do you understand the competition for jobs?
If it helps, yes, big law is off the table for your GPA.
You should get some counseling and take time to get back on track.
But you sound like you don't want to take advice.
You post about how confused and beat up you are, but now you want to know if you can still get a job that will eat you up?

For whatever it's worth, a 2.9 might not be as bad as it sounds. It's hard to use GPA across different schools. Median at my school, for instance, is under 2.9. We have a B- curve.

[raininthedesert]

I'm concerned that your SO might be part of the problem. To what extent is that relationship impacting your performance? Furthermore, if you take a leave of absence or dropout, what is the likelihood that your SO will want to stay with you?

[thelawyerguy]

Thanks for the responses guys. I feel sooooo unready for upcoming OCI. Might be helpful to know: is big law off the table with a 2.9 at a T10?

Are you last in your class? Do you understand the competition for jobs?
If it helps, yes, big law is off the table for your GPA.
You should get some counseling and take time to get back on track.
But you sound like you don't want to take advice.
You post about how confused and beat up you are, but now you want to know if you can still get a job that will eat you up?

For whatever it's worth, a 2.9 might not be as bad as it sounds. It's hard to use GPA across different schools. Median at my school, for instance, is under 2.9. We have a B- curve.

I don't know of any T10 school that has a curve that low. I'm pretty sure a 2.9 at any T10 is probably bottom 10-15%.