3.0 at Lower T14 Forum

FlowBro · Post by **FlowBro** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 11:21 am

First semester grades came back and I have a 3.0. Very surprised considering how well I knew the material and the amount of effort I put in. But, based on other TLS posts, these things happen. With a median of 3.3, I am well below that, perhaps even in the bottom 10%.

Are my chances at BigLaw done? Any suggestions or advice out there? Thanks!

Danger Zone · Post by **Danger Zone** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 11:23 am

How do you feel about becoming an attorney (even if not big law)? What's your debt look like?

Your chances are significantly weakened, but the bottom line is that OCI can be an unpredictable creature. Make yourself interesting, practice interviewing a lot, and see what comes of it if this is really what you want to do.

FlowBro · Post by **FlowBro** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 11:33 am

I am open to all options. I will be graduating with no debt.

mr.hands · Post by **mr.hands** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 11:57 am

When you say "no debt" do you mean that you have a full scholarship or that your family/loved ones/savings are taking care of it?

If it's the first, then ride it out. If it's the second, i'd think pretty hard before going on.

Regardless, stay for at least another semester. See where you end up and then go from there

FlowBro · Post by **FlowBro** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:00 pm

No debt meaning a sizable scholarship

mr.hands · Post by **mr.hands** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:03 pm

FlowBro wrote:No debt meaning a sizable scholarship

Oh solid. That makes things much easier. Unless you have a marketable degree that opens doors to consulting or a job paying 50k+, stay the course. You don't have much, if anything, to lose.

MyNameIsFlynn! · Post by **MyNameIsFlynn!** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:41 pm

mr.hands wrote:
FlowBro wrote:No debt meaning a sizable scholarship
Oh solid. That makes things much easier. Unless you have a marketable degree that opens doors to consulting or a job paying 50k+, stay the course. You don't have much, if anything, to lose.

Uhh... At a minimum he's losing 2 years of his life.

If you have a big scholly and no other viable career options, sticking it out may well be the best choice, but let's not ignore opportunity costs here. That's the same kind of logic that convinces people to attend TTTs on full scholarships.

gnuwheels · Post by **gnuwheels** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:57 pm

Similar situation to you. I had a 3.0 after my first semester at a Lower T14 last year. Graduating with no debt. Going into OCI last August, my GPA wasn't much higher. It wasn't easy or fun but I pulled through with a V100 offer in NYC.

- Do everything you can this semester to bring it up (I took an elective to fluff my GPA a little bit and show focus on a particular area).

- Do everything you can this summer to maximize job possibilities (I got a 1L SA, networked like crazy and went into OCI with people going to bat for me behind the scenes).

- Do everything you can to make yourself a normal, likable interviewee (I didn't get my job through grades. I had classmates with much better grades not even get callbacks or get rejected after a callback at the same firm, but I made a serious connection with my on campus interviewer and he was pulling for me on the inside. Thats what made a difference in the end. There are people at my school with 3.5+'s who struck out. It shouldn't make sense that I have a job and they don't, but use that to your advantage. Those people likely were bad interviewees.)

- MOST IMPORTANTLY: Don't let pride get in your way at OCI. Bid as conservatively as possible and remember, a firm with a bad reputation that pays below market is 100x better than no job. (I made this mistake, I might have come away with more options if I had been a little less cocky. I was extremely confident of my ability to get a job, despite my low grades, and so didn't bid on below-market paying firms or the least selective firms. This was a mistake and it almost cost me big time.)

Good luck.

mr.hands · Post by **mr.hands** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:21 pm

MyNameIsFlynn! wrote:
mr.hands wrote:
FlowBro wrote:No debt meaning a sizable scholarship
Oh solid. That makes things much easier. Unless you have a marketable degree that opens doors to consulting or a job paying 50k+, stay the course. You don't have much, if anything, to lose.
Uhh... At a minimum he's losing 2 years of his life.

If you have a big scholly and no other viable career options, sticking it out may well be the best choice, but let's not ignore opportunity costs here. That's the same kind of logic that convinces people to attend TTTs on full scholarships.

Yeah i understand what opportunity costs are. That's why I said "unless you have a marketable degree..." If OP doesn't have a viable career option that can get him 50k+, he should stay where he is.

This also isn't remotely similar to the logic that convinces people to attend TTT schools on full scholarship. First, he can't and won't lose his scholarship because there aren't stips. Second, people at T14 schools can get really good/high paying jobs even if they are around or even below median (see the poster right above me). Although i wouldn't encourage most people to stay if they are below median, the fact that OP has a massive scholarship makes this a very-low risk proposition

FlowBro · Post by **FlowBro** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:35 pm

I do not have any other viable career option that would allow me to earn $50k+ at the moment. I enjoy law school, felt good about my courses, but severely under-performed on exams.

The worst part about being at 3.0 is not the fact that I am below median but rather that I felt prepared, worked hard, and left exams feeling confident. Making changes going forward is going to be the greatest challenge.

mr.hands · Post by **mr.hands** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:39 pm

FlowBro wrote:I do not have any other viable career option that would allow me to earn $50k+ at the moment. I enjoy law school, felt good about my courses, but severely under-performed on exams.

The worst part about being at 3.0 is not the fact that I am below median but rather that I felt prepared, worked hard, and left exams feeling confident. Making changes going forward is going to be the greatest challenge.

Talk to your professors. I am 100% confident that you knew the law. Understanding the "game" of exams is a different beast. After you get a feel for what they were looking for, you can take that into your finals this semester. A short conversation with your professors may make all the difference

FlowBro · Post by **FlowBro** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:43 pm

mr.hands wrote:
FlowBro wrote:I do not have any other viable career option that would allow me to earn $50k+ at the moment. I enjoy law school, felt good about my courses, but severely under-performed on exams.

The worst part about being at 3.0 is not the fact that I am below median but rather that I felt prepared, worked hard, and left exams feeling confident. Making changes going forward is going to be the greatest challenge.
Talk to your professors. I am 100% confident that you knew the law. Understanding the "game" of exams is a different beast. After you get a feel for what they were looking for, you can take that into your finals this semester. A short conversation with your professors may make all the difference

I'm planning on doing this, great advice. I appreciate the help from everyone out there.

notgreat · Post by **notgreat** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 3:28 pm

Is it okay if I hijack, OP? I am in a similar situation.

FlowBro · Post by **FlowBro** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 6:40 pm

notgreat wrote:Is it okay if I hijack, OP? I am in a similar situation.

Be my guest!

BuckinghamB · Post by **BuckinghamB** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 7:05 pm

Even if you stay around 3.0, it can be done. I know someone at a T14 with a sub-3.0 1L GPA who was a non-URM, K-JD with no law review, WE or IP background. They landed a market paying V30ish job in a major market. S/he is incredibly nice, personable and easy to talk to, though. That can make up for alot.

Figure out what you did wrong, and figure out what your new profs are expecting this semester. After grades, work your ass off at honing your interview skills. Good luck!

Wearthewildthingsr · Post by **Wearthewildthingsr** » Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:42 pm

you go to duke law don't you op? 3.3 is the median at duke. not sure if other school's. also the timing of this considering grades were released last week suggests duke.

North · Post by **North** » Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:13 pm

Wearthewildthingsr wrote:you go to duke law don't you op? 3.3 is the median at duke. not sure if other school's. also the timing of this considering grades were released last week suggests duke.

GOT HIM. GREAT WORK BRO.

RemyMarathe · Post by **RemyMarathe** » Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:32 pm

North wrote:
Wearthewildthingsr wrote:you go to duke law don't you op? 3.3 is the median at duke. not sure if other school's. also the timing of this considering grades were released last week suggests duke.
GOT HIM. GREAT WORK BRO.

THM23 · Post by **THM23** » Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:12 pm

First Offense · Post by **First Offense** » Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:58 pm

Wearthewildthingsr wrote:you go to duke law don't you op? 3.3 is the median at duke. not sure if other school's. also the timing of this considering grades were released last week suggests duke.

Grades were released last week at a lot of schools.

Wearthewildthingsr · Post by **Wearthewildthingsr** » Sat Feb 01, 2014 7:53 pm

First Offense wrote:
Wearthewildthingsr wrote:you go to duke law don't you op? 3.3 is the median at duke. not sure if other school's. also the timing of this considering grades were released last week suggests duke.
Grades were released last week at a lot of schools.

is 3.3 the median at a lot of t-14 schools? I didn't think so

bjsesq · Post by **bjsesq** » Sat Feb 01, 2014 7:59 pm

Wearthewildthingsr wrote:
First Offense wrote:
Wearthewildthingsr wrote:you go to duke law don't you op? 3.3 is the median at duke. not sure if other school's. also the timing of this considering grades were released last week suggests duke.
Grades were released last week at a lot of schools.
is 3.3 the median at a lot of t-14 schools? I didn't think so

What the fuck does it matter, you goddamn sperglord?

BruceWayne · Post by **BruceWayne** » Sat Feb 01, 2014 8:02 pm

Having graduated from a top 10 with a similar GPA and knowing a lot of people with similar grades here's my advice.

Since you have a big scholly and like law stick it out. Things are going to be VERY hard. Just accept that. I don't know of anyone with similar grades who pulled a big firm job. Most are doing a "fellowship". That being said I know some who pulled good small firm gigs and even some who pulled great BigFed jobs. Tailor your resume for these sort of positions now. Do a journal, do mock trial/moot court, do externships and network. Pick 2 areas of law that you like and start taking courses in those areas so that you can sell yourself to applicable employers. But again realize that things are going to be extraordinarily difficult; big firms will be near impossible. But then again all of this is assuming your grades stay where they are. Try your best again next term and talk to your professors. Who knows maybe you'll pull a 3.6 or something next term and be back in the running for firm jobs. Either way good luck.

whereskyle · Post by **whereskyle** » Sat Feb 01, 2014 8:25 pm

OP, you have no living expenses debt?

jbagelboy · Post by **jbagelboy** » Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:06 pm

Wearthewildthingsr wrote:
First Offense wrote:
Wearthewildthingsr wrote:you go to duke law don't you op? 3.3 is the median at duke. not sure if other school's. also the timing of this considering grades were released last week suggests duke.
Grades were released last week at a lot of schools.
is 3.3 the median at a lot of t-14 schools? I didn't think so

yes. it is the median at a lot of schools.

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