Should I drop out? Forum

Inquirer · Post by **Inquirer** » Tue May 22, 2012 1:31 pm

Hi!

I just finished my 1L year at a top 60 law school (between 50 and 60). My grades are on the poor side, but I am already $50K in debt (and no, my parents are not helping me pay off the debt). Is it worth it for me to drop out, or stick it out and at least get a law degree for my investment?

I only have an undergrad degree in business, so I don't know of any amazing alternatives either other than starting a business - which is also inherently risky.

If you recommend that I do drop out, any ideas?

Thanks for you help!

StrictlyBusiness · Post by **StrictlyBusiness** » Tue May 22, 2012 1:35 pm

View your 50k already spent as a sunk cost (because that's what it is). I have no idea how bad your job prospects are in this position (pretty bad I'm guessing by your tone), but just make sure your decision isn't one of those "well I've already spent $50k, might as well spend the next $100k."

rad lulz · Post by **rad lulz** » Tue May 22, 2012 1:37 pm

Well you've told us basically nothing about your situation, so I don't think anyone here can really give you advice.

Inquirer · Post by **Inquirer** » Tue May 22, 2012 1:38 pm

What else do you want to know about my situation?

rad lulz · Post by **rad lulz** » Tue May 22, 2012 1:41 pm

Inquirer wrote:What else do you want to know about my situation?

Do you have a summer job? Ties to the region of the school? Strong connections? Any efforts you've made to network or find jobs? Any special skills?

Etc. etc.

Inquirer · Post by **Inquirer** » Tue May 22, 2012 1:43 pm

I have a summer internship, but it's just working for a low level, state court judge. My ties to the region of the school are pretty strong. I have some connections, but don't know if or how they will help me out. Can't think of any special skills that pertain to law.

gokumax · Post by **gokumax** » Tue May 22, 2012 2:16 pm

The more I read such posts, the more I like the idea of schools paying law students to drop out:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_ ... quit_.html

LSATNightmares · Post by **LSATNightmares** » Tue May 22, 2012 9:30 pm

Just be aware that if you were to pursue the business route, it wouldn't be easy, either. My husband is about to graduate from Harvard Business School, and he still has no job here in the U.S. I think it boils down to what you really want to do, as opposed to what you think you should do. If you love law, finish the two years. At least that is my take. But first talk to CDO at your school. Of course, they'll convince you to stay, but I wouldn't rely to what strangers say in this forum. They'll best understand the market in your region.

BarbellDreams · Post by **BarbellDreams** » Tue May 22, 2012 9:39 pm

I really need to know the school specifically to vote on this. 50k is a lot already, and paying sticker for a T2 is pretty bad to begin with, but because you're already in this hole I kinda think you're out of options and need to stay. PM the school if you're uncomfortable posting as that matters as well.

jurisx · Post by **jurisx** » Tue May 22, 2012 10:41 pm

Depends on what you mean by "poor" grades. If you are still in good standing but barely, then you can still pull it up the next terms.

The Harvard B-school example is a good point. A B-school degree is just that, even from Harvard. Better to be a licensed attorney from Whittier and the lowest in your graduating class needing to sit the bar 4 times to pass it, than a Harvard B-school grad top 1%.

Just my thoughts on it. You quit now and really what rose bush is waiting for you?

sunynp · Post by **sunynp** » Tue May 22, 2012 10:46 pm

What are the chances you will be able to repay your debt? I think you should drop out as it seems unlikely you will find anything that will allow you to repay $150,000+ debt. Right now you aren't in a unsalvageable position vis a vis the rest of your life. If you keep going you may not be solvent for the next 20 years.

jurisx · Post by **jurisx** » Tue May 22, 2012 11:02 pm

sunynp wrote:What are the chances you will be able to repay your debt? I think you should drop out as it seems unlikely you will find anything that will allow you to repay $150,000+ debt. Right now you aren't in a unsalvageable position vis a vis the rest of your life. If you keep going you may not be solvent for the next 20 years.

All we know is the grades were "poor" and no other real prospects to mention.

If he is failing then I agree. If just bottom half of his class, get a tutor.

It depends how bad he sucks. If you have 15 credits at a 0.75 GPA quit. If they are at a 2.25 GPA then pull your act together and move forward. If your only other option is an undergrad B-degree......

sunynp · Post by **sunynp** » Tue May 22, 2012 11:13 pm

jurisx wrote:
sunynp wrote:What are the chances you will be able to repay your debt? I think you should drop out as it seems unlikely you will find anything that will allow you to repay $150,000+ debt. Right now you aren't in a unsalvageable position vis a vis the rest of your life. If you keep going you may not be solvent for the next 20 years.
All we know is the grades were "poor" and no other real prospects to mention.

If he is failing then I agree. If just bottom half of his class, get a tutor.

It depends how bad he sucks. If you have 15 credits at a 0.75 GPA quit. If they are at a 2.25 GPA then pull your act together and move forward. If your only other option is an undergrad B-degree......

What matters is the likelihood he will get a job to pay back his loans. ( That depends on where he is and what his GPA is, connections, etc. )
I'm assuming (and I think it is a safe assumption) the answer to that question right now, is no. He wont be able to repay $150K if he keeps going to law school. But if he drops out with 50K he can manage to repay them even on 20 year IBR.

If my assumption is correct, I see no point in him continuing and tying himself to a huge amount of debt he can't repay.

fanmingrui · Post by **fanmingrui** » Tue May 22, 2012 11:20 pm

jurisx wrote:Depends on what you mean by "poor" grades. If you are still in good standing but barely, then you can still pull it up the next terms.

The Harvard B-school example is a good point. A B-school degree is just that, even from Harvard. Better to be a licensed attorney from Whittier and the lowest in your graduating class needing to sit the bar 4 times to pass it, than a Harvard B-school grad top 1%.

Just my thoughts on it. You quit now and really what rose bush is waiting for you?

Lolwut? You be (inelegantly) trollin.

071816 · Post by **071816** » Tue May 22, 2012 11:22 pm

Whittier Law School > Harvard Business School? Da fuck?

bk1 · Post by **bk1** » Tue May 22, 2012 11:24 pm

Luckily for you, you've already finished the year. 2L doesn't start for a few more months. Spend the summer looking for a real job and take it once you find it.

If you stick it out you'll have 150k+ debt (probably more due to interest) and a T2 law degree. Very few law schools are worth 150k+ debt and a T2 doesn't even come close to being one. The boat for a shot at a job that can pay off 150k+ debt has pretty much already sailed considering your school and your grades. At least at this point if you drop out you can start chipping away at the 50k (which arguably was a poor decision to begin with, but hey it was a gamble with possible high returns... only now you know you've lost so no reason to sink more money into it). Best case scenario for you sticking out probably looks like 150k+ debt with a 50k/year job at a small firm. Worst case scenario is that same amount of debt but with a job you could have gotten without the 2 extra years of debt.

Maybe if you have a burning desire to be a lawyer there might be some justification for sticking it out, but I personally think that at this point the dream of being a lawyer probably isn't worth 100k more debt with a salary that makes paying off 150k+ difficult.

timbs4339 · Post by **timbs4339** » Wed May 23, 2012 10:43 am

sunynp wrote:
jurisx wrote:
sunynp wrote:What are the chances you will be able to repay your debt? I think you should drop out as it seems unlikely you will find anything that will allow you to repay $150,000+ debt. Right now you aren't in a unsalvageable position vis a vis the rest of your life. If you keep going you may not be solvent for the next 20 years.
All we know is the grades were "poor" and no other real prospects to mention.

If he is failing then I agree. If just bottom half of his class, get a tutor.

It depends how bad he sucks. If you have 15 credits at a 0.75 GPA quit. If they are at a 2.25 GPA then pull your act together and move forward. If your only other option is an undergrad B-degree......
What matters is the likelihood he will get a job to pay back his loans. ( That depends on where he is and what his GPA is, connections, etc. )
I'm assuming (and I think it is a safe assumption) the answer to that question right now, is no. He wont be able to repay $150K if he keeps going to law school. But if he drops out with 50K he can manage to repay them even on 20 year IBR.

If my assumption is correct, I see no point in him continuing and tying himself to a huge amount of debt he can't repay.

+1

jurisx · Post by **jurisx** » Wed May 23, 2012 12:19 pm

chimp wrote:Whittier Law School > Harvard Business School? Da fuck?

Useless MBA vs licensed lawyer. If you'd rather go to B-school do it, heck be a zoologist for all I care.

Ivy is just polish on a turd if it's B-school.

Maybe this is just me but I'd rather start out as the worlds lowest payed lawyer and work up from there vs being the worlds best anything else.

If someone is going to law school for any reason other than the desire to be a lawyer, the next few decades between now and death are going to suck. (a lot)

bk1 · Post by **bk1** » Wed May 23, 2012 12:22 pm

jurisx wrote:Maybe this is just me but I'd rather start out as the worlds lowest payed lawyer and work up from there vs being the worlds best anything else.

Maybe this is just you?

rad lulz · Post by **rad lulz** » Wed May 23, 2012 12:26 pm

jurisx wrote: Maybe this is just me but I'd rather start out as the worlds lowest payed lawyer and work up from there vs being the worlds best anything else.

Being a lawyer is not that great lil breh

jurisx · Post by **jurisx** » Wed May 23, 2012 12:26 pm

bk187 wrote:
jurisx wrote:Maybe this is just me but I'd rather start out as the worlds lowest payed lawyer and work up from there vs being the worlds best anything else.
Maybe this is just you?

maybe. But if you are going to law school for any reason other than the desire to be a lawyer, the next few decades between now and death are going to suck, a lot.

jurisx · Post by **jurisx** » Wed May 23, 2012 12:27 pm

rad lulz wrote:
jurisx wrote: Maybe this is just me but I'd rather start out as the worlds lowest payed lawyer and work up from there vs being the worlds best anything else.
Being a lawyer is not that great lil breh

then why do it? Other degrees pay better and are less work.

bk1 · Post by **bk1** » Wed May 23, 2012 12:30 pm

jurisx wrote:
bk187 wrote:
jurisx wrote:Maybe this is just me but I'd rather start out as the worlds lowest payed lawyer and work up from there vs being the worlds best anything else.
Maybe this is just you?
maybe. But if you are going to law school for any reason other than the desire to be a lawyer, the next few decades between now and death are going to suck, a lot.

What does this response even have to do with the fact that you are clearly in the minority of people who would rather be the lowliest lawyer than the best anything else? It is not a maybe. It is an definitely this is just you, or close to just you.

rad lulz · Post by **rad lulz** » Wed May 23, 2012 12:33 pm

jurisx wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
jurisx wrote: Maybe this is just me but I'd rather start out as the worlds lowest payed lawyer and work up from there vs being the worlds best anything else.
Being a lawyer is not that great lil breh
then why do it? Other degrees pay better and are less work.

It's mainly just a problem with your hypo. Because the shit you do when you are the lowest paid lawyer can barely be called lawyering (ex. doc review, being present at a real estate closing). Also you don't work your way up from from doc review.

RedBirds2011 · Post by **RedBirds2011** » Wed May 23, 2012 12:35 pm

jurisx wrote:
chimp wrote:Whittier Law School > Harvard Business School? Da fuck?
Useless MBA vs licensed lawyer. If you'd rather go to B-school do it, heck be a zoologist for all I care.

Ivy is just polish on a turd if it's B-school.

Maybe this is just me but I'd rather start out as the worlds lowest payed lawyer and work up from there vs being the worlds best anything else.

If someone is going to law school for any reason other than the desire to be a lawyer, the next few decades between now and death are going to suck. (a lot)

What? A Harvard business degree is not useless dude. And just because you're a licensed lawyer doesn't mean you actually are a practicing lawyer. You need to get hired first.

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