Good Grades by Skimming Readings and Using Old Outlines Forum

[law777]

Can anyone speak to this?

If you generally knew what the readings were about, but mostly just relied on old outlines (good ones), could you do well grade-wise? Does anyone have experience with this at any T14s?

[johansantana21]

Yes you can.

[dabomb75]

2 of my classes I would have got B-'s in if I didn't know the cases back and forth

the other 2 classes I didn't read a single case after the first month of school.

Did well.

TL;DR: depends on the professor

[TTH]

Can anyone speak to this?

If you generally knew what the readings were about, but mostly just relied on old outlines (good ones), could you do well grade-wise? Does anyone have experience with this at any T14s?

Reading cases is probably valuable somewhat in that it helps you to spot issues. The best outline in the world won't help you if you don't spot the issue in the first place. Profs are lazy and will recycle fact patterns from cases, so it's helpful, but certainly not to the extent that you should dedicatedly read every case.

[sillyboots]

In line with another poster above, it all comes down to your professor. A lot of professor just use the facts of cases in a mostly casual and general way to demonstrate points they want to make, with the points being far more important than the cases. For a professor like that, reading the facts in online case briefs should be enough and you'll never need to crack the casebook.

Like the above poster, though, for at least two of my classes the teachers were insane about the cases, the nuances of each and every fact and the court's analysis (often jumping on it and criticizing it). Not only were you less likely to get nearly as much out of class if you didn't carefully read the cases, but it was obvious come test time that all questions were based on nuanced factual structures lifted from the cases, and having the ability to drop the case name and mimic the analysis done in class was the ticket to an A.

In the end, it's something you can figure out in the first couple of weeks of class usually. Try just reading the facts of the case, or as they are portrayed in online case briefs, and go to class. If you find yourself having a hard time following class discussion, you're better off reading. If you find it's no problem, then you're probably okay.

[gdane]

Dont be lazy. Old outlines are overrated especially since people almost never go back and fix/update/tailor it to what they saw on an exam. You dont have to read a whole 20 page case in your casebook, but focus on the court's reasoning. How they got to their holding.

[morris248]

You need to make your own outline based on the class syllabus and then compare it to old outlines. In my opinion you
absolutely need to do your own outline and tailor it to your professor.

[johansantana21]

Old outlines are the best.

[Detrox]

ITT: People describe their own studying strategy and assume it applies universally.

Do whatever works for you. Some can do less than others and get better grades, others need to do far more to simply stay afloat. People are different, as are schools, professors, tests, and snowflakes, except for the last one.

[Indifferent]

Dont be lazy. Old outlines are overrated especially since people almost never go back and fix/update/tailor it to what they saw on an exam. You dont have to read a whole 20 page case in your casebook, but focus on the court's reasoning. How they got to their holding.

Wait, you're in law school now?

OP: people do it and do well

People do it and do poorly.

People read comprehensively and outline and do well.

People read comprehensively and outline and do poorly.

Find what works for you.

[NotMyRealName09]

Yes, you can do well by not trying hard. That is a great plan. Just go to law school, skim the readings, only review other student's work product, and you will be top of your class.

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME? Why would you do this intentionally? Sure, someone, sometime, somewhere, pulled it off, but surely someone, sometime, somewhere failed miserably, and had no one else to blame but him or her self. I'm not sure why I say this, but I believe more people do poorly after under-preparing than do well.

If you are entering law school thinking - how can I succeed without trying very hard - I'm not sure you have the right mentality.

I am a strong advocate for trying hard, because you only have one shot at law school success, don't dick around.

And the people who say they did it, just skimmed and didn't try hard because they are super smart? I bet they also have a girlfriend in Arizona - you wouldn't know her - but she's a model, and she's coming to visit soon, but they just lost the picture of her, but she is totally hot, she's not on facebook.

[Lasers]

know the cases. you don't really need to read them, though. know the rule and the basic facts and listen to what the professor says about the cases in class. this allows you to apply them on the test. case citing on an exam is rarely necessary but it will almost always help you.

with that said, old outlines for me have been terrifically useful. i really don't see why making your outline differs at all; you end up with the same understanding either way but with old outlines you save so much more time. i've done both and have experienced similar success, though old outlines saved me more time and allowed me to do what really matters prior to exams: practice tests.

[gdane]

I am a huge advocate of making your own outlines. I personally get a great grasp of the material because I outline it. I've spent this whole week outlining and now I feel mad comfortable with my classes. The same thing happened last semester. I felt like crap in property unti I sat down and outlined the course. I did well in that class.

For me, outlining forces me to revisit the material and because I like to make brief outlines, I often don't put anything in it until I completely understand the material and can condense it in short no bullshit way. I use class notes, supplements, and my case briefs together and it has worked great.

[JoeFish]

I personally get a great grasp of the material because I outline it.

I take this a step farther. My class attendance is... <meh>... and I don't do too much reading during the semester (varies class by class; last semester in Torts, i would've been pwned had I not done all of it, this semester in Civ Pro I haven't touched the casebook). But about a week before the exam, I'll take a day and read every single case, and then the next day I'll write a 40-or-so page essay, which is basically an outline with each point expanded out into a complete sentence or paragraph. And after that I've got it down cold. I'll do a bunch of practice tests that week, re-reading my notes-essay-thing each day, and work in lots of E&E and CALI stuffs in the two or three days before the exam.

Small sample size (3 classes so far) but it's worked pretty well.

[arvcondor]

I personally get a great grasp of the material because I outline it.

I take this a step farther. My class attendance is... <meh>... and I don't do too much reading during the semester (varies class by class; last semester in Torts, i would've been pwned had I not done all of it, this semester in Civ Pro I haven't touched the casebook). But about a week before the exam, I'll take a day and read every single case, and then the next day I'll write a 40-or-so page essay, which is basically an outline with each point expanded out into a complete sentence or paragraph. And after that I've got it down cold. I'll do a bunch of practice tests that week, re-reading my notes-essay-thing each day, and work in lots of E&E and CALI stuffs in the two or three days before the exam.

Small sample size (3 classes so far) but it's worked pretty well.

This is the most bizarre study method I've ever seen. But seriously, to each his own.

OP: Don't forget that student outlines are really just a product of one student working through the material, not necessarily a point of reference or anyone else (although they are certainly helpful). Don't over rely on them.

[TheFactor]

I personally get a great grasp of the material because I outline it.

I take this a step farther. My class attendance is... <meh>... and I don't do too much reading during the semester (varies class by class; last semester in Torts, i would've been pwned had I not done all of it, this semester in Civ Pro I haven't touched the casebook). But about a week before the exam, I'll take a day and read every single case, and then the next day I'll write a 40-or-so page essay, which is basically an outline with each point expanded out into a complete sentence or paragraph. And after that I've got it down cold. I'll do a bunch of practice tests that week, re-reading my notes-essay-thing each day, and work in lots of E&E and CALI stuffs in the two or three days before the exam.

Small sample size (3 classes so far) but it's worked pretty well.

you weird dude

[Seminole_305]

Depends on the Professor. The only change I have made this semester is more practicing and less reading. I used old outlines and did well.

[hurldes]

about a week before the exam, I'll take a day and read every single case, and then the next day I'll write a 40-or-so page essay, which is basically an outline with each point expanded out into a complete sentence or paragraph. And after that I've got it down cold.

You're saying that you complete a full semester's worth of work in 2 days?

[JoeFish]

You're saying that you complete a full semester's worth of work in 2 days?

Well, not exactly, but closer to it than anyone else I know. I'd guess my real exam prep takes 3 or 4 days for each class. I do at least some of the reading, and have a good understanding of stuff from going to class at least 2/3 of the time. But, I mean, I pretty much do nothing but eat, sleep, and study from the day classes end until the last exam. I do get through all or almost all of the cases in the first day I really go into "exam crunch-time mode", and I write most of my outline/essay thingy the next day, but that'll spill over. It takes a long friggin' time. That's what I did for 2 of my 3 classes; for the third, it was more spread out.

The other thing I do that's not necessarily mainstream is when I note-take, I'm basically transcribing. If I type it, I can usually remember most or all of it. I basically filled 3 notebooks in Torts last semester, and had no problem on the exam choosing what was important and what was not (which is the common pitfall of the transcriber, I think).

Would not generally recommend my habits. They've been tweaked into this over a long time studying math and law and having a weird sleep schedule and being able to stay up for many, many hours in a row when I want to.

[drmguy]

Correct answer is depends on the professor.

[kalvano]

I personally get a great grasp of the material because I outline it.

I take this a step farther. My class attendance is... <meh>... and I don't do too much reading during the semester (varies class by class; last semester in Torts, i would've been pwned had I not done all of it, this semester in Civ Pro I haven't touched the casebook). But about a week before the exam, I'll take a day and read every single case, and then the next day I'll write a 40-or-so page essay, which is basically an outline with each point expanded out into a complete sentence or paragraph. And after that I've got it down cold. I'll do a bunch of practice tests that week, re-reading my notes-essay-thing each day, and work in lots of E&E and CALI stuffs in the two or three days before the exam.

Small sample size (3 classes so far) but it's worked pretty well.

My friend does this and has gotten excellent grades. It sucks at the end of the semester, but makes the early part a breeze.

[JAJAcinco]

Yes, you can do well by not trying hard. That is a great plan. Just go to law school, skim the readings, only review other student's work product, and you will be top of your class.

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME? Why would you do this intentionally? Sure, someone, sometime, somewhere, pulled it off, but surely someone, sometime, somewhere failed miserably, and had no one else to blame but him or her self. I'm not sure why I say this, but I believe more people do poorly after under-preparing than do well.

If you are entering law school thinking - how can I succeed without trying very hard - I'm not sure you have the right mentality.

I am a strong advocate for trying hard, because you only have one shot at law school success, don't dick around.

And the people who say they did it, just skimmed and didn't try hard because they are super smart? I bet they also have a girlfriend in Arizona - you wouldn't know her - but she's a model, and she's coming to visit soon, but they just lost the picture of her, but she is totally hot, she's not on facebook.

HAHAHA and i'd bet you'd win that bet

Seriously tho, OP i don't think you'll find anyone saying you CANT get good grades by those methods...just that its not recommended. as a 0L, my impression is that your professor's opinion is pretty much the only one that matters when it comes to your grades

[Always Credited]

Yes, you can do well by not trying hard. That is a great plan. Just go to law school, skim the readings, only review other student's work product, and you will be top of your class.

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME? Why would you do this intentionally? Sure, someone, sometime, somewhere, pulled it off, but surely someone, sometime, somewhere failed miserably, and had no one else to blame but him or her self. I'm not sure why I say this, but I believe more people do poorly after under-preparing than do well.

If you are entering law school thinking - how can I succeed without trying very hard - I'm not sure you have the right mentality.

I am a strong advocate for trying hard, because you only have one shot at law school success, don't dick around.

And the people who say they did it, just skimmed and didn't try hard because they are super smart? I bet they also have a girlfriend in Arizona - you wouldn't know her - but she's a model, and she's coming to visit soon, but they just lost the picture of her, but she is totally hot, she's not on facebook.

HAHAHA and i'd bet you'd win that bet

Seriously tho, OP i don't think you'll find anyone saying you CANT get good grades by those methods...just that its not recommended. as a 0L, my impression is that your professor's opinion is pretty much the only one that matters when it comes to your grades

hence why said outlines would come from said professor.