Well in substantive classes, poorly in legal writing? Forum

[ap1987]

Just curious to know whether it's possible to do well in your substantive law classes but do poorly in legal writing or if those things tend to go hand in hand?

Meaning like A's, B+s, and then a low grade in legal writing.

[BlueDiamond]

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[094320]

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[Brassica7]

This is what I did last year. I had top 5-10% grades in my substantive classes, but got B's in legal writing. I thought that writing was my strong point, but I could not give the teacher what she wanted. I did manage to write on to law review, if that matters. The legal writing grades pulled me down to top 15%, so it wasn't too bad. I was still annoyed, wishing those classes were pass/fail.

Good luck!

[ben4847]

It is very common. I would think there is more likely a negative correlation between doctrinal grades and LRW grades than a positive correlation.

[keg411]

I saw no difference and still don't get how there could be a negative correlation. They're really not different skills unless all of your exams are multiple choice or something.

[monkey85]

Yes, it's possible.

Some law students actually consciously aim for this outcome. Legal writing is such a time sink that some students will strategically decide to shirk their legal writing grade, and refocus all of that saved time/energy to the substantive law classes.

(Although, I didn't do that)

[ap1987]

Nice thanks, eases my mind a little, I know I'm not going to do well in legal writing. Hopefully I do as well as I feel I did in my substantive classes but who knows.

[ben4847]

I saw no difference and still don't get how there could be a negative correlation. They're really not different skills unless all of your exams are multiple choice or something.

I dunno. All I know is my first semester I had A,A,A,A+ on doctrinal classes, and B+ in LRW. Then, someone else in the class told me he had A,A,A,A in doctrinal, and B in LRW. And all the exams were classic issue spotters, which I ripped through in no time, with misspelled words, bad grammar, and no structure.
And it seems others on this forum have had similar results.

[quiver]

I saw no difference and still don't get how there could be a negative correlation. They're really not different skills unless all of your exams are multiple choice or something.

I dunno. All I know is my first semester I had A,A,A,A+ on doctrinal classes, and B+ in LRW. Then, someone else in the class told me he had A,A,A,A in doctrinal, and B in LRW. And all the exams were classic issue spotters, which I ripped through in no time, with misspelled words, bad grammar, and no structure.
And it seems others on this forum have had similar results.

I am one of those with similar results. LRW was my lowest grade.

[nickwar]

Just curious to know whether it's possible to do well in your substantive law classes but do poorly in legal writing or if those things tend to go hand in hand?

Meaning like A's, B+s, and then a low grade in legal writing.

LRW was my lowest grade -- I've done pretty well in all my substantive classes.

[c3pO4]

its bc LRW grades are 100% based on how well you can mimic your legal writing professor's writing style, something that has very little to do with ability to succeed in issue spotting and analyzing fact patterns. it's a ttterrible class taught by ttterible profs at most schools. it's not about how well you write - in fact sometimes writing well hurts your grade, if your teacher writes worse/in a different way. you just have to write exactly what they want, or else you dont get a great grade.

[Ludo!]

Yes, it's possible.

Some law students actually consciously aim for this outcome. Legal writing is such a time sink that some students will strategically decide to shirk their legal writing grade, and refocus all of that saved time/energy to the substantive law classes.

(Although, I didn't do that)

This is what I did. Gotta love pass/fail LRW.

[09042014]

I saw no difference and still don't get how there could be a negative correlation. They're really not different skills unless all of your exams are multiple choice or something.

Writing exams is nothing like writing shitty LRW memos.

I doubt there is a negative correlation, but I doubt there is a significant positive correlation either. With no correlation either way, someone good at substantive classes has just as much chance at getting the A in LWR, as they do getting the B-.

[NotMyRealName09]

I think a person who can write a better brief will also write a better exam. Its all about clear communication.

[Grizz]

I think a person who can write a better brief will also write a better exam. Its all about clear communication.

Not really, different skillsets. Barfing out crap on exams is nothing like writing an 8 page memo.

[Ludo!]

I think a person who can write a better brief will also write a better exam. Its all about clear communication.

In my legal writing class it was about clearly kissing the instructor's ass.

[094320]

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[ben4847]

I think a person who can write a better brief will also write a better exam. Its all about clear communication.

Not really. There's not all that much issue-spotting and analysis in LRW. The instructor basically spoon-fed the analysis and so our grading was based on organization(sorta, everyone's was nearly identical there), wording, and instructor preference in writing style. In substantive classes, the grading was pretty strongly weighted towards spotting issues and the quality of your analysis. I've seen top exams written pretty atrociously that were strong because they really hit every issue with really good analysis.

Amen on this bro.