Use first name for Partner/Associates/Recruiter? Forum

[Ofta3184]

1L here.

So i've corresponded with a few hiring partners and recruiters and am unsure about the proper level of formality expected (I have 0 years working in the corporate world) when speaking with them via email and over the phone.

Do I wait until they tell me to stop calling them "Mr. XXXX" or can i just use their first name right off the bat?

[bernaldiaz]

1L here.

So i've corresponded with a few hiring partners and recruiters and am unsure about the proper level of formality expected (I have 0 years working in the corporate world) when speaking with them via email and over the phone.

Do I wait until they tell me to stop calling them "Mr. XXXX" or can i just use their first name right off the bat?

LSAT prep and discussion forum? Poor choice. Not that I care. But still, how on earth did you pick this forum of all the possibilities?

[headandshoulderos]

call people by their names.

[MrPapagiorgio]

call people by their names.

Good job answering the question. But TCR is to call them Mr. XXX until they tell you otherwise. It shows respect and maturity. At some point they will tell you to call them by their first name but initially, Mr. XXX will never be wrong.

[headandshoulderos]

call people by their names.

Good job answering the question. But TCR is to call them Mr. XXX until they tell you otherwise. It shows respect and maturity. At some point they will tell you to call them by their first name but initially, Mr. XXX will never be wrong.

I did answer the question, and I think you are wrong. Have you ever been a professional? If so, have you ever seen anybody headline a direct correspondence in business with Mr. or Ms.? I think saying Mr. makes you sound like you lack confidence and experience. FWIW, I always use first names and nobody ever thought I was disrespecting them.

edit: although, given your handle, I can't blame you for liking Mr.

[Richie Tenenbaum]

call people by their names.

Good job answering the question. But TCR is to call them Mr. XXX until they tell you otherwise. It shows respect and maturity. At some point they will tell you to call them by their first name but initially, Mr. XXX will never be wrong.

Completely disagree. I used Mr. xxx out of habit in a few screeners and it weirded one interviewer out as soon as I said it. I stuck with first names in all of my other interviews (both screening interviews and callbacks) and not once did I sense a negative reaction to a first name being used. The only situation where last name may be better is with an older partner. Even then, I think the safe bet is first name.

One more story: a friend called a screener interviewer "ms. xxx." She told him after the interview, one-on-one, that she was offended by him referring to her in that way. She may be an extreme case, but I think the general idea is this: people don't like being called old, which some people insinuate from being called by the title mr or ms.

[headandshoulderos]

call people by their names.

Good job answering the question. But TCR is to call them Mr. XXX until they tell you otherwise. It shows respect and maturity. At some point they will tell you to call them by their first name but initially, Mr. XXX will never be wrong.

Completely disagree. I used Mr. xxx out of habit in a few screeners and it weirded one interviewer out as soon as I said it. I stuck with first names in all of my other interviews (both screening interviews and callbacks) and not once did I sense a negative reaction to a first name being used. The only situation where last name may be better is with an older partner. Even then, I think the safe bet is first name.

One more story: a friend called a screener interviewer "ms. xxx." She told him after the interview, one-on-one, that she was offended by him referring to her in that way. She may be an extreme case, but I think the general idea is this: people don't like being called old, which some people insinuate from being called by the title mr or ms.

Nobody in a business setting says MR or MS. You call people by their names, unless you are in the military or grade school.

[Ofta3184]

call people by their names.

Good job answering the question. But TCR is to call them Mr. XXX until they tell you otherwise. It shows respect and maturity. At some point they will tell you to call them by their first name but initially, Mr. XXX will never be wrong.

Completely disagree. I used Mr. xxx out of habit in a few screeners and it weirded one interviewer out as soon as I said it. I stuck with first names in all of my other interviews (both screening interviews and callbacks) and not once did I sense a negative reaction to a first name being used. The only situation where last name may be better is with an older partner. Even then, I think the safe bet is first name.

One more story: a friend called a screener interviewer "ms. xxx." She told him after the interview, one-on-one, that she was offended by him referring to her in that way. She may be an extreme case, but I think the general idea is this: people don't like being called old, which some people insinuate from being called by the title mr or ms.

Nobody in a business setting says MR or MS. You call people by their names, unless you are in the military or grade school.

First of all, sorry about posting in the LSAT forum. I thought I would get the best responses from LSAT takers/I accidently pressed new topic looking at LSAT Q/Im blind in one eye.

Thanks for all ya'lls responses. I guess another question I had along the same lines: should i keep saying "yes sir" and "yes ma'am" when addressing these people? I have a habit of doing it and am wondering if I should drop it once I enter the professional world

[MrPapagiorgio]

To each is his own I guess. Personally, I have never called someone in a position of authority (e.g. hiring managers, superiors at work) by his or her first name when I am being interviewed or otherwise meeting them for the first time, nor would I ever do so. Obviously after that I would call them by their first name. But I would feel awkward walking into an interview and saying "Hi Jim, pleasure to meet you." But that's just me.

ETA: While I would advocate Mr. and Ms., I would not go so formal as to say "sir" or "ma'am."

[Ofta3184]

To each is his own I guess. Personally, I have never called someone in a position of authority (e.g. hiring managers, superiors at work) by his or her first name when I am being interviewed or otherwise meeting them for the first time, nor would I ever do so. Obviously after that I would call them by their first name. But I would feel awkward walking into an interview and saying "Hi Jim, pleasure to meet you." But that's just me.

ETA: While I would advocate Mr. and Ms., I would not go so formal as to say "sir" or "ma'am."

Yeah I'm originally from the south so its really hard to get rid of.

Isnt there an unspoken rule in email communications that when someone uses only their first name after a salutation like "Sincerely, Jim" then it is okay to use their first name?

[MrPapagiorgio]

To each is his own I guess. Personally, I have never called someone in a position of authority (e.g. hiring managers, superiors at work) by his or her first name when I am being interviewed or otherwise meeting them for the first time, nor would I ever do so. Obviously after that I would call them by their first name. But I would feel awkward walking into an interview and saying "Hi Jim, pleasure to meet you." But that's just me.

ETA: While I would advocate Mr. and Ms., I would not go so formal as to say "sir" or "ma'am."

Yeah I'm originally from the south so its really hard to get rid of.

Isnt there an unspoken rule in email communications that when someone uses only their first name after a salutation like "Sincerely, Jim" then it is okay to use their first name?

I would say that changes the situation. If they refer to themselves by first name, then by all means feel free to call them that.

[romothesavior]

lol @ the advice ITT. If you are calling or emailing a person in authority for the first time, especially someone you don't know, you don't use their goddamn first name. You don't call and say, "Hey is Bill there?" and you don't say, "Dear Jerry." Are you going to refer to the hiring partner by their first name in your cover letter? Then why in the hell would you refer to him by first name in your first email to him? Meeting in person may be different (I usually say "Nice to meet you Mr. ____," which is responded to with "Please, call me ____" 9 times out of 10), but if you are initiating contact with a professional who is "above" you on the pecking order and may have a say in your being hired, you call them by their last name.

Richie, I see where you are coming from with your anecdote, but this just sounds like one crazy woman. Once in a while you might run into someone who doesn't like the Mr./Ms. thing, but that's standard procedure. I think far more people in these positions are going to be taken aback by you calling them by their first name when you first introduce yourself than the other way around.

You can use proper etiquette without coming off like a stiff, OP. I would refer to them as Ms./Mr. until they tell you to do otherwise.

[romothesavior]

I would say that changes the situation. If they refer to themselves by first name, then by all means feel free to call them that.

I agree with this. A lot of my email threads with recruiters and hiring people start out very formal and become far less so after the initial email. Often after the initial email you can often switch over to first names. But I can't even imagine reaching out to someone by phone or over email and calling them by their first name without even establishing myself first.

[Moxie]

lol @ the advice ITT. If you are calling or emailing a person in authority for the first time, especially someone you don't know, you don't use their goddamn first name. You don't call and say, "Hey is Bill there?" and you don't say, "Dear Jerry." Are you going to refer to the hiring partner by their first name in your cover letter? Then why in the hell would you refer to him by first name in your first email to him? Meeting in person may be different (I usually say "Nice to meet you Mr. ____," which is responded to with "Please, call me ____" 9 times out of 10), but if you are initiating contact with a professional who is "above" you on the pecking order and may have a say in your being hired, you call them by their last name.

Richie, I see where you are coming from with your anecdote, but this just sounds like one crazy woman. Once in a while you might run into someone who doesn't like the Mr./Ms. thing, but that's standard procedure. I think far more people in these positions are going to be taken aback by you calling them by their first name when you first introduce yourself than the other way around.

You can use proper etiquette without coming off like a stiff, OP. I would refer to them as Ms./Mr. until they tell you to do otherwise.

This is the freakin' credited response. I can see why people don't want to imply their interviewer is old, but it's very unprofessional to call them by their first name without the interviewer telling you not to.

[Richie Tenenbaum]

lol @ the advice ITT. If you are calling or emailing a person in authority for the first time, especially someone you don't know, you don't use their goddamn first name. You don't call and say, "Hey is Bill there?" and you don't say, "Dear Jerry." Are you going to refer to the hiring partner by their first name in your cover letter? Then why in the hell would you refer to him by first name in your first email to him? Meeting in person may be different (I usually say "Nice to meet you Mr. ____," which is responded to with "Please, call me ____" 9 times out of 10), but if you are initiating contact with a professional who is "above" you on the pecking order and may have a say in your being hired, you call them by their last name.

Richie, I see where you are coming from with your anecdote, but this just sounds like one crazy woman. Once in a while you might run into someone who doesn't like the Mr./Ms. thing, but that's standard procedure. I think far more people in these positions are going to be taken aback by you calling them by their first name when you first introduce yourself than the other way around.

You can use proper etiquette without coming off like a stiff, OP. I would refer to them as Ms./Mr. until they tell you to do otherwise.

1) Yeah, I was only referring to interviews, not cover letters. Everyone introduces themselves by first name in interviews, so it would be awkward to go to something more formal.

2) The woman was extreme. It was just an example to counter the idea that formality is always a safe best.

ETA: Just realized OP was referring to phone and email. With email use Mr./Ms. in first communication. Phone is more situation dependent.

Also: Age may play a role in this too. I'm maybe only a little bit older than the average law student, but I probably look older than I actually am. So there's not much of a perceived age gap with me and a lot of the associates in interviews. It's pretty natural for me to call most people by their first name in person. I still let "sir" slip out a few times with older hiring partners out of habit, but I'm in Texas so that's not too out of place.

[headandshoulderos]

lol @ the advice ITT. If you are calling or emailing a person in authority for the first time, especially someone you don't know, you don't use their goddamn first name. You don't call and say, "Hey is Bill there?" and you don't say, "Dear Jerry." Are you going to refer to the hiring partner by their first name in your cover letter? Then why in the hell would you refer to him by first name in your first email to him? Meeting in person may be different (I usually say "Nice to meet you Mr. ____," which is responded to with "Please, call me ____" 9 times out of 10), but if you are initiating contact with a professional who is "above" you on the pecking order and may have a say in your being hired, you call them by their last name.

Richie, I see where you are coming from with your anecdote, but this just sounds like one crazy woman. Once in a while you might run into someone who doesn't like the Mr./Ms. thing, but that's standard procedure. I think far more people in these positions are going to be taken aback by you calling them by their first name when you first introduce yourself than the other way around.

You can use proper etiquette without coming off like a stiff, OP. I would refer to them as Ms./Mr. until they tell you to do otherwise.

why is mr. professional? you just said it is a lot of times over and over. I definitely said hello/dear ____ first name____ in all my cover letters. Maybe the best advice is to do what feels comfortable to you and also think about the region. maybe in the south be more formal, or in NYC, but not in California.

I maintain that having been in the work force and knowing zillions of professionals including recruiters, in my experience calling someone Mr. or Ms. doesn't happen in person or in email, even if you don't know them, and often can be offputting.

[Richie Tenenbaum]

lol @ the advice ITT. If you are calling or emailing a person in authority for the first time, especially someone you don't know, you don't use their goddamn first name. You don't call and say, "Hey is Bill there?" and you don't say, "Dear Jerry." Are you going to refer to the hiring partner by their first name in your cover letter? Then why in the hell would you refer to him by first name in your first email to him? Meeting in person may be different (I usually say "Nice to meet you Mr. ____," which is responded to with "Please, call me ____" 9 times out of 10), but if you are initiating contact with a professional who is "above" you on the pecking order and may have a say in your being hired, you call them by their last name.

Richie, I see where you are coming from with your anecdote, but this just sounds like one crazy woman. Once in a while you might run into someone who doesn't like the Mr./Ms. thing, but that's standard procedure. I think far more people in these positions are going to be taken aback by you calling them by their first name when you first introduce yourself than the other way around.

You can use proper etiquette without coming off like a stiff, OP. I would refer to them as Ms./Mr. until they tell you to do otherwise.

why is mr. professional? you just said it is a lot of times over and over. I definitely said hello/dear ____ first name____ in all my cover letters. Maybe the best advice is to do what feels comfortable to you and also think about the region. maybe in the south be more formal, or in NYC, but not in California.

I maintain that having been in the work force and knowing zillions of professionals including recruiters, in my experience calling someone Mr. or Ms. doesn't happen in person or in email, even if you don't know them, and often can be offputting.

Using first names in cover letters seems a bit odd. I was really thinking of in-person interactions with my response earlier.

[headandshoulderos]

I guess I must be taking crazy pills. I'm a first namer, though, and proud of it.

[MrPapagiorgio]

lol @ the advice ITT. If you are calling or emailing a person in authority for the first time, especially someone you don't know, you don't use their goddamn first name. You don't call and say, "Hey is Bill there?" and you don't say, "Dear Jerry." Are you going to refer to the hiring partner by their first name in your cover letter? Then why in the hell would you refer to him by first name in your first email to him? Meeting in person may be different (I usually say "Nice to meet you Mr. ____," which is responded to with "Please, call me ____" 9 times out of 10), but if you are initiating contact with a professional who is "above" you on the pecking order and may have a say in your being hired, you call them by their last name.

Richie, I see where you are coming from with your anecdote, but this just sounds like one crazy woman. Once in a while you might run into someone who doesn't like the Mr./Ms. thing, but that's standard procedure. I think far more people in these positions are going to be taken aback by you calling them by their first name when you first introduce yourself than the other way around.

You can use proper etiquette without coming off like a stiff, OP. I would refer to them as Ms./Mr. until they tell you to do otherwise.

Glad to see others agree with me. I was starting to think I was crazy for suggesting that you refer to possible employers as Mr./Ms. in a first encounter.

[romothesavior]

I guess I must be taking crazy pills.

That's what I thought when I read your responses as well.

Congrats on being in a professional setting before. When I was in professional settings, I called my bosses by their first name. I called people around the office by their first name. If I shot off an email to someone I didn't know in a similar position to myself, I'd use their first name. But that is a totally different context involving totally different stakes than the one we're talking about here.

A a 2L, 25 year old law student speaking at arm's length to partners 20+ years my former who have a shitload more accomplishments than I do, and (more importantly) have control over my potential for employment at their firm, I'm going to go with the universally accepted, traditional format of Mr./Ms. Maybe if you're older you'll get away with it, but I still think it is going to stand out in a negative way more often than it can help you by "showing confidence," whatever the hell that means.

OP, I recommend you do this as well. Virtually every CSO would tell you this.

[headandshoulderos]

I guess I must be taking crazy pills.

That's what I thought when I read your responses as well.

Congrats on being on a professional setting before, that's cool. When I was in professional settings, I called my bosses by my first name. I called people around the office by their first name. If I shot off an email to someone I didn't know in a similar position to myself, I'd use their first name. But that is a totally different context involving totally different stakes than the one we're talking about here.

A a 2L, 25 year old law student speaking at arm's length to partners 20+ years my former who have a shitload more accomplishments than I do, and (more importantly) have control over my potential for employment at their firm, I'm going to go with the universally accepted, traditional format of Mr./Ms.

OP, I recommend you do this as well. Virtually every CSO would tell you this.

why is it different? its still just a job. and a lot of times you are dealing with people not much older than you, especially if you are older than 25. if your position is never use mr. except in the case of applying to legal jobs form law schools, i think that is a shaky leg to stand on. you seem to be agreeing that it's not a common practice among professionals in a business setting, so why would somebody hoping to work alongside other people use an alienating greeting?

[MrPapagiorgio]

I guess I must be taking crazy pills.

That's what I thought when I read your responses as well.

Congrats on being on a professional setting before, that's cool. When I was in professional settings, I called my bosses by my first name. I called people around the office by their first name. If I shot off an email to someone I didn't know in a similar position to myself, I'd use their first name. But that is a totally different context involving totally different stakes than the one we're talking about here.

A a 2L, 25 year old law student speaking at arm's length to partners 20+ years my former who have a shitload more accomplishments than I do, and (more importantly) have control over my potential for employment at their firm, I'm going to go with the universally accepted, traditional format of Mr./Ms.

OP, I recommend you do this as well. Virtually every CSO would tell you this.

why is it different? its still just a job. and a lot of times you are dealing with people not much older than you, especially if you are older than 25. if your position is never use mr. except in the case of applying to legal jobs form law schools, i think that is a shaky leg to stand on. you seem to be agreeing that it's not a common practice among professionals in a business setting, so why would somebody hoping to work alongside other people use an alienating greeting?

I thought romo was pretty clear. It's very rare that you would continue to use mr./ms. once you are working. But initially, it is pretty good advice to do so.

[HBK]

I guess I must be taking crazy pills.

That's what I thought when I read your responses as well.

Congrats on being on a professional setting before, that's cool. When I was in professional settings, I called my bosses by my first name. I called people around the office by their first name. If I shot off an email to someone I didn't know in a similar position to myself, I'd use their first name. But that is a totally different context involving totally different stakes than the one we're talking about here.

A a 2L, 25 year old law student speaking at arm's length to partners 20+ years my former who have a shitload more accomplishments than I do, and (more importantly) have control over my potential for employment at their firm, I'm going to go with the universally accepted, traditional format of Mr./Ms.

OP, I recommend you do this as well. Virtually every CSO would tell you this.

why is it different? its still just a job. and a lot of times you are dealing with people not much older than you, especially if you are older than 25. if your position is never use mr. except in the case of applying to legal jobs form law schools, i think that is a shaky leg to stand on. you seem to be agreeing that it's not a common practice among professionals in a business setting, so why would somebody hoping to work alongside other people use an alienating greeting?

When I worked in business the rule was first name for people your own age or subordinates and last name for people substantially older than you. For example, if I met with a 35-45 year old director, I'd call them by their first name. If I met with a 60 year old CFO, I'd call them by their last name. Romo's 20+ years experience comment is accurate. At OCI, I interviewed with people my own age. I called them by their first name. It was the older partners who I called "Mr. soandso or Ms. soandso."

This isn't the same as business. When you're in business and you're making a pitch to a client or whatever, you're usually on a more equal playing field. What these recruiters are used to is smarmy 22 year olds. Even if you're not 22, they don't care because in their eyes, you're in the same position as everyone else applying. Add to that to the fact that law is a formal profession and lawyers are usually pretty full of themselves and you get a 60 year old partner who doesn't want some law student calling him "Bob."

[Ofta3184]

I guess I must be taking crazy pills.

That's what I thought when I read your responses as well.

Congrats on being on a professional setting before, that's cool. When I was in professional settings, I called my bosses by my first name. I called people around the office by their first name. If I shot off an email to someone I didn't know in a similar position to myself, I'd use their first name. But that is a totally different context involving totally different stakes than the one we're talking about here.

A a 2L, 25 year old law student speaking at arm's length to partners 20+ years my former who have a shitload more accomplishments than I do, and (more importantly) have control over my potential for employment at their firm, I'm going to go with the universally accepted, traditional format of Mr./Ms.

OP, I recommend you do this as well. Virtually every CSO would tell you this.

why is it different? its still just a job. and a lot of times you are dealing with people not much older than you, especially if you are older than 25. if your position is never use mr. except in the case of applying to legal jobs form law schools, i think that is a shaky leg to stand on. you seem to be agreeing that it's not a common practice among professionals in a business setting, so why would somebody hoping to work alongside other people use an alienating greeting?

When I worked in business the rule was first name for people your own age or subordinates and last name for people substantially older than you. For example, if I met with a 35-45 year old director, I'd call them by their first name. If I met with a 60 year old CFO, I'd call them by their last name. Romo's 20+ years experience comment is accurate. At OCI, I interviewed with people my own age. I called them by their first name. It was the older partners who I called "Mr. soandso or Ms. soandso."

This isn't the same as business. When you're in business and you're making a pitch to a client or whatever, you're usually on a more equal playing field. What these recruiters are used to is smarmy 22 year olds. Even if you're not 22, they don't care because in their eyes, you're in the same position as everyone else applying. Add to that to the fact that law is a formal profession and lawyers are usually pretty full of themselves and you get a 60 year old partner who doesn't want some law student calling him "Bob."

These points make a lot of sense. Thanks for all ya'lls help!

[headandshoulderos]

itt: people are stiffs