1L Exam Prep and Motivation Thread Forum

[BlueDiamond]

I'm actually more interested to see what happens to the rising 3L who will undoubtedly get thrown under the bus by everyone who gets caught

[gdane]

I would have taken another Contracts final IF the dean did not schedule it for Thursday. Freaking Thursday! Lol. Everyone was so drained today from a 4 hour con law final and this whole fiasco that realistically noone would have started studying for contracts until tomorrow.

That would have given everyone just one day to get back up to speed. I still remember most stuff, but its just the fact that I personally feel drained and would need/like more than 1 day between finals. If the administration had scheduled it on Friday, I would have been happy and would have retaken. It was also a problem for a lot of people that were planning on leaving. As soon as the retake option was put on the table people started panicking "What about my plane tickets! I'm leaving tomorrow!" etc etc.

Whatever. Im just curious to see if this will make ATL. Lol. Im not a reader, but I'll keep an eye out. Haha.

[bartleby]

i'm betting the fancy math/stats thing is the twiddling of fingers and pretending to crack down on the students so the non-cheaters won't bitch too hard. sounds exciting though

[tedalbany]

i'm betting the fancy math/stats thing is the twiddling of fingers and pretending to crack down on the students so the non-cheaters won't bitch too hard. sounds exciting though

As already posted, if they just look at who got an abnormal amount of prior year questions correct compared to the other questions, it shouldn't be that difficult. But it depends on how difficult the MC questions were... if they weren't difficult enough so that some people only missed a couple of the non-prior year questions, there probably won't be enough confidence to take action.

[bartleby]

i'm betting the fancy math/stats thing is the twiddling of fingers and pretending to crack down on the students so the non-cheaters won't bitch too hard. sounds exciting though

As already posted, if they just look at who got an abnormal amount of prior year questions correct compared to the other questions, it shouldn't be that difficult. But it depends on how difficult the MC questions were... if they weren't difficult enough so that some people only missed a couple of the non-prior year questions, there probably won't be enough confidence to take action.

dude if no one cracks and outright confesses, how can they say it isn't a coincidence-- you'd be accusing someone or a group of people of cheating, probably getting F's, w/ their careers ruined before they started. it will be pretty hard unless one guy snitches

[sundance95]

After a certain # of standard deviations it will be obvious. This isn't criminal court; they don't need beyond a reasonable doubt.

[dreakol]

i'm betting the fancy math/stats thing is the twiddling of fingers and pretending to crack down on the students so the non-cheaters won't bitch too hard. sounds exciting though

As already posted, if they just look at who got an abnormal amount of prior year questions correct compared to the other questions, it shouldn't be that difficult. But it depends on how difficult the MC questions were... if they weren't difficult enough so that some people only missed a couple of the non-prior year questions, there probably won't be enough confidence to take action.

dude if no one cracks and outright confesses, how can they say it isn't a coincidence-- you'd be accusing someone or a group of people of cheating, probably getting F's, w/ their careers ruined before they started. it will be pretty hard unless one guy snitches

yeah. if everyone just keeps their mouths shut, they should all be fine.

[bartleby]

After a certain # of standard deviations it will be obvious. This isn't criminal court; they don't need beyond a reasonable doubt.

i guess, i'm not trying to in re winship anything, just saying the law school has nothing to lose by just letting it slide...and a lot to lose if they wrongly accuse some kid who just got unlucky

[thesteelers]

I think my brain melted during the reading period from burnout.

I have a Civ Pro exam in the morning and I have completely blanked and don't remember a single thing.

Time to pull an all-nighter and pray for median.

[tedalbany]

i'm betting the fancy math/stats thing is the twiddling of fingers and pretending to crack down on the students so the non-cheaters won't bitch too hard. sounds exciting though

As already posted, if they just look at who got an abnormal amount of prior year questions correct compared to the other questions, it shouldn't be that difficult. But it depends on how difficult the MC questions were... if they weren't difficult enough so that some people only missed a couple of the non-prior year questions, there probably won't be enough confidence to take action.

dude if no one cracks and outright confesses, how can they say it isn't a coincidence-- you'd be accusing someone or a group of people of cheating, probably getting F's, w/ their careers ruined before they started. it will be pretty hard unless one guy snitches

Say there are 40 MC questions ... 15 are re-used.

A group of 10 students all got all 15 re-used questions correct, and they all miss 7-15 other questions. Almost everyone else gets a few certain previous re-used questions wrong because they're very difficult... if there is a certain predictable pattern it'll be very obvious.

[LSATmakesMeNeurotic]

Say there are 40 MC questions ... 15 are re-used.

A group of 10 students all got all 15 re-used questions correct, and they all miss 7-15 other questions. Almost everyone else gets a few certain previous re-used questions wrong because they're very difficult... if there is a certain predictable pattern it'll be very obvious.

I would assume the cheaters aren't that stupid and got a few of the questions that were reused "wrong." That's what I would have done if I had the answers ahead of time and the morals of a Kardashian.

[sundance95]

Say there are 40 MC questions ... 15 are re-used.

A group of 10 students all got all 15 re-used questions correct, and they all miss 7-15 other questions. Almost everyone else gets a few certain previous re-used questions wrong because they're very difficult... if there is a certain predictable pattern it'll be very obvious.

I would assume the cheaters aren't that stupid and got a few of the questions that were reused "wrong." That's what I would have done if I had the answers ahead of time and the morals of a Kardashian.

Doubt it. If they did that they'd have thought they could get caught, but most people only cheat when they believe they can't get caught.

[alicrimson]

i'm betting the fancy math/stats thing is the twiddling of fingers and pretending to crack down on the students so the non-cheaters won't bitch too hard. sounds exciting though

As already posted, if they just look at who got an abnormal amount of prior year questions correct compared to the other questions, it shouldn't be that difficult. But it depends on how difficult the MC questions were... if they weren't difficult enough so that some people only missed a couple of the non-prior year questions, there probably won't be enough confidence to take action.

dude if no one cracks and outright confesses, how can they say it isn't a coincidence-- you'd be accusing someone or a group of people of cheating, probably getting F's, w/ their careers ruined before they started. it will be pretty hard unless one guy snitches

Say there are 40 MC questions ... 15 are re-used.

A group of 10 students all got all 15 re-used questions correct, and they all miss 7-15 other questions. Almost everyone else gets a few certain previous re-used questions wrong because they're very difficult... if there is a certain predictable pattern it'll be very obvious.

Was it common knowlege that the teacher re-uses his exams/were students told not to copy the test? It seems weird one would have to take pictures of the old exam.

Edit for reading comp fail

[tedalbany]

Say there are 40 MC questions ... 15 are re-used.

A group of 10 students all got all 15 re-used questions correct, and they all miss 7-15 other questions. Almost everyone else gets a few certain previous re-used questions wrong because they're very difficult... if there is a certain predictable pattern it'll be very obvious.

I would assume the cheaters aren't that stupid and got a few of the questions that were reused "wrong." That's what I would have done if I had the answers ahead of time and the morals of a Kardashian.

I originally thought that, but that was more of a high school/UG cheating tactic when there were 100 MC questions and you could afford to give up 10 and still get an A. But considering this is law school and that one question could mean the difference between you getting/not getting big law, I wouldn't doubt that they'd be greedy about it. Plus if there's less than 100 questions and only some are re-used, they really probably would just take their chances.

[alicrimson]

Say there are 40 MC questions ... 15 are re-used.

A group of 10 students all got all 15 re-used questions correct, and they all miss 7-15 other questions. Almost everyone else gets a few certain previous re-used questions wrong because they're very difficult... if there is a certain predictable pattern it'll be very obvious.

I would assume the cheaters aren't that stupid and got a few of the questions that were reused "wrong." That's what I would have done if I had the answers ahead of time and the morals of a Kardashian.

I originally thought that, but that was more of a high school/UG cheating tactic when there were 100 MC questions and you could afford to give up 10 and still get an A. But considering this is law school and that one question could mean the difference between you getting/not getting big law, I wouldn't doubt that they'd be greedy about it. Plus if there's less than 100 questions and only some are re-used, they really probably would just take their chances.

I don't feel for the cheaters, but I'm with bartleby. Imagine how rough it would be if you didn't cheat but the statistical analysis flagged you. No good. I think the risk of accusing someone who's innocent outweighs the reward of accusing someone who's guilty.

[TTTLS]

I am still traumatized from finals.

[alicrimson]

I am still traumatized from finals.

+1. I'm debating unplugging if I can't handle ze interwebz which would be absurd but am feeling too attached to TLS and know all the madness will stop when the job starts on Wednesday.

[Extension_Cord]

I'm actually more interested to see what happens to the rising 3L who will undoubtedly get thrown under the bus by everyone who gets caught

They probably won't even be allowed to finish 3L... They definitly won't be accepted into any bar associations.

It's really a shame. They most likely just wasted 2 years of their life doing something they hate while being out of work and collecting debt. Don't mess up like this.

That said, I hope they get caught and get made an example of. I would HATE if this happend at my school and my grade suffered as a consequence. It's unfortunate, but it's necessary.

School probably knows exactly who it is. Someone will undoubtily rat them out. Too many people know about it. They probably gave it to one person who gave it to their friends, who .... You get the point. Law students are cut throat. As soon as one of them is under the fire they will squeal.

[Extension_Cord]

Say there are 40 MC questions ... 15 are re-used.

A group of 10 students all got all 15 re-used questions correct, and they all miss 7-15 other questions. Almost everyone else gets a few certain previous re-used questions wrong because they're very difficult... if there is a certain predictable pattern it'll be very obvious.

I would assume the cheaters aren't that stupid and got a few of the questions that were reused "wrong." That's what I would have done if I had the answers ahead of time and the morals of a Kardashian.

Yeah right. They are cheating which means they are desperate. Desperate people are not rational. Think of it this way, if atleast a couple students didn't get a suspicious number of them right, then how does the school know about it? Even if the cheater was smart enough to disguise it, which I doubt, one of the other cheaters that gets caught will rat on them. They are fucked, no way the school won't get them now.

This is how I see it going down. Dean questions students with suspicious grades or the 3L who leaked the test. Dean will tell them that they will be dismissed from the school and will report it to the bar, but they won't press charges IF they cooperate. They will squeal and all the cheaters will be fucked.

[bartleby]

i'm hoping the cheaters get caught too but i am also really fucking happy some asshole didn't come up to me and was like...dude i know 25% of the q's from our exam, do you want the answers?

i know people are going to shit all over me for saying this but it would be hard for me to just say nah fuck you, i got this. i would either have to 1.) narc on that person, 2.) accept the disadvantage, or 3.) accept the advantage - and the accompanying risks

not saying i would DEFINITELY cheat, just saying im happy i wasnt even presented with that BS opportunity

[JenDarby]

Some deviations aren't sufficient to definitively assume cheating. Unless these people crack under pressure, they should be good.

[tedalbany]

Damn now I'm kind of scared, did I cheat?

I got a hold of my professors past exams with model answers (officially released) from other schools (but not released to our school) and looked them over, and she used one of the exact same questions (fact pattern, the details were different - names and exact stuff, but the structure was almost entirely the same). This wasn't a huge benefit to me because I didn't even read the entire model answer, though I did remember and use some of the more creative arguments.

[alicrimson]

Damn now I'm kind of scared, did I cheat?

I got a hold of my professors past exams with model answers (officially released) from other schools (but not released to our school) and looked them over, and she used one of the exact same questions (fact pattern, the details were different - names and exact stuff, but the structure was almost entirely the same). This wasn't a huge benefit to me because I didn't even read the entire model answer, though I did remember and use some of the more creative arguments.

Truthfully, in these situations, I almost blame the teachers more than the students. They should be making new tests. They know their stuff is likely out there. We work hard and learn the material. The least they can do is take the initiative to create new, challenging exams. To reuse the old ones is just plain lazy. This is up there with the crazy amount of typos on certain exams. When stuff like this happens, I feel extremely disrespected. I mean, its not like this is the only test of the class or that we're paying substantial sums of money to attend the school. No big deal. :/

[SilverE2]

Damn now I'm kind of scared, did I cheat?

I got a hold of my professors past exams with model answers (officially released) from other schools (but not released to our school) and looked them over, and she used one of the exact same questions (fact pattern, the details were different - names and exact stuff, but the structure was almost entirely the same). This wasn't a huge benefit to me because I didn't even read the entire model answer, though I did remember and use some of the more creative arguments.

At many schools this is an honor code violation.

[gdane]

Someone brought this point up to the dean. Her response was that its not the professors fault because if anything the professor does his students a favor by using questions that have been proven to be straightforward. She said this is similar to the LSAT and the bar exam where there are certain exams that they do not release because they want to potentially reuse certain questions in the future.

I see her point and I agree with her. Its not the professors fault at all in this case. He was a great professor and really did his best to help us learn Contracts. It was just some jerkoffs that distributed an exam that the professor did not want distributed and made an effort to make sure it was not distributed.

Anyway! I want to forget about this! I have a month and a half or so until I get my grades back. Boo!