Who cares what US World News says? Forum

[adude]

Instead, rank law schools yourself:

http://www.allourideas.org/lawschoolranking

[Veyron]

Mostly just employers. No big deal.

[sojasoph]

Mostly just employers. No big deal.

word.

[adude]

Mostly just employers. No big deal.

c'mon I was being facetious

[Veyron]

Mostly just employers. No big deal.

c'mon I was being facetious

Fancy that, so was I.

[cartercl]

Mostly just employers. No big deal.

word.

[missinglink]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDEuLXLNGBo

[BaronDetroit]

Certainly, the Cooley President appropriately addressed this ranking scheme in his remarks here: --LinkRemoved--

[DeeCee]

Certainly, the Cooley President appropriately addressed this ranking scheme in his remarks here: --LinkRemoved--

lol....

[BlueDiamond]

"He did no feasibility study, or market survey, or business plan. Indeed, he did almost no research, barely enough to find out what it took to incorporate a law school. He did what many entrepreneurs do, they get an idea and they do whatever is necessary to make it successful."

Read as: "He did nothing necessary to make the law school successful. He had a great idea and did whatever was necessary to make the law school successful."

[savagedm]

"He did no feasibility study, or market survey, or business plan. Indeed, he did almost no research, barely enough to find out what it took to incorporate a law school. He did what many entrepreneurs do, they get an idea and they do whatever is necessary to make it successful."

Read as: "He did nothing necessary to make the law school successful. He had a great idea and did whatever was necessary to make the law school successful."

That is to say, if that first stuff is found to be necessary. I don't think he cares too much about his alumni base's success, just his own. So whatever is necessary to be successful, by his standards, could be purposely omitting to do those things.

[Borhas]

the law school hierarchy and USNWR rankings are not the same

the latter attempts to describe the former

employers care mostly about the former while students care mostly about the latter

[A'nold]

the law school hierarchy and USNWR rankings are not the same

the latter attempts to describe the former

employers care mostly about the former while students care mostly about the latter

*the more you know star*

[Borhas]

the law school hierarchy and USNWR rankings are not the same

the latter attempts to describe the former

employers care mostly about the former while students care mostly about the latter

[megaTTTron]

the law school hierarchy and USNWR rankings are not the same

the latter attempts to describe the former

employers care mostly about the former while students care mostly about the latter

twice in one day.

[A'nold]

I love that thing but I can never post pic's on here cuz of my dumz.

[savagedm]

the law school hierarchy and USNWR rankings are not the same

the latter attempts to describe the former

employers care mostly about the former while students care mostly about the latter

Would you mind explaining this mentality further? How does this hierarchy work in your opinion? This could become a good cautionary warning to the prestige-snobs who shoot for the top of USNWR rankings without actually considering what they are doing.

[09042014]

Mostly just employers. No big deal.

I doubt employers actually give a shit what US News says. US news just parrots back the preexisting hierarchy of school prestige.

[mikeytwoshoes]

I love that thing but I can never post pic's on here cuz of my dumz.

Oh A'nold, you've got the best dumz on the forum.

[Borhas]

the law school hierarchy and USNWR rankings are not the same

the latter attempts to describe the former

employers care mostly about the former while students care mostly about the latter

Would you mind explaining this mentality further? How does this hierarchy work in your opinion? This could become a good cautionary warning to the prestige-snobs who shoot for the top of USNWR rankings without actually considering what they are doing.

Well, TLS has these hierarchy discussions all the time... see any thread w/ posts like Y>S>H>A>B>C>D>>>>E etc

fact is, students going to Yale have significantly greater opportunities than students going to Georgetown... and at the end of the day the opportunities given to students are what we care about. Some people will drone on and on about the quality of the education or the intelligence of the students. Frankly I think that's pointless, we should just go straight to results. If you want to go to a school because you want to be around smart people then join Mensa, if you want an education go to a cheap school because I HIGHLY doubt the difference in the quality of the education itself is different at Harvard compared to Vanderbilt (higher demand does not mean quality is proportional to demand, just means there is an innate lack of supply for things that are known as "the best" or "top"). It's true, Harvard will have the leading scholars in a lot of specialized fields, but who gives a shit? You aren't a lawyer yet, you aren't specialized yet, that stuff is largely irrelevant just as the quality of a university's graduate programs is to 99% of UG education. (if it were up to me I'd toss out the academic peer evaluation of any ranking system on grounds of nobody giving a shit)

Problem w/ a purely results oriented approach is that there are hidden hierarchies w/ in the results themselves. Many view working for the Federal Government or the ACLU as "Prestigious PI" while working for a city or state government is not as prestigious. Working for a V50 is more prestigious than other firms, clerking for a Federal COA>Fed District>State Supreme Court>State COA>State trial court. There's also differences between the circuits. There's also differences between major cities... San Francisco > Bakersville, etc.

So it's kind of hard to precisely weigh the outcomes. The best I've seen is NLJ 250 + Fed Clerkship, because there's enough people going after those jobs at every school that it's fair to say the schools that provide the best opportunities will best meet those very common desires. "Public Interest" should also probably play a role, but the hidden hierarchies in that field are even more obscure because none of those people want to outright admit they are prestige whores like almost everyone else... we could probably use Federal Government work + Big ["prestigious"] City Gov't work, but I have no idea how to weigh the non-profits.

How much does all this have to do w/ UGPA, LSAT, Class Size, square footage of library, cost per student? Very Little. There's no point in using those #'s as a substitute for the outcomes when the #'s for the outcomes are available (or at least, could be).

[savagedm]

the law school hierarchy and USNWR rankings are not the same

the latter attempts to describe the former

employers care mostly about the former while students care mostly about the latter

Would you mind explaining this mentality further? How does this hierarchy work in your opinion? This could become a good cautionary warning to the prestige-snobs who shoot for the top of USNWR rankings without actually considering what they are doing.

Well, TLS has these hierarchy discussions all the time... see any thread w/ posts like Y>S>H>A>B>C>D>>>>E etc

fact is, students going to Yale have significantly greater opportunities than students going to Georgetown... and at the end of the day the opportunities given to students are what we care about. Some people will drone on and on about the quality of the education or the intelligence of the students. Frankly I think that's pointless, we should just go straight to results. If you want to go to a school because you want to be around smart people then join Mensa, if you want an education go to a cheap school because I HIGHLY doubt the difference in the quality of the education itself is different at Harvard compared to Vanderbilt (higher demand does not mean quality is proportional to demand, just means there is an innate lack of supply for things that are known as "the best" or "top"). It's true, Harvard will have the leading scholars in a lot of specialized fields, but who gives a shit? You aren't a lawyer yet, you aren't specialized yet, that stuff is largely irrelevant just as the quality of a university's graduate programs is to 99% of UG education. (if it were up to me I'd toss out the academic peer evaluation of any ranking system on grounds of nobody giving a shit)

Problem w/ a purely results oriented approach is that there are hidden hierarchies w/ in the results themselves. Many view working for the Federal Government or the ACLU as "Prestigious PI" while working for a city or state government is not as prestigious. Working for a V50 is more prestigious than other firms, clerking for a Federal COA>Fed District>State Supreme Court>State COA>State trial court. There's also differences between the circuits. There's also differences between major cities... San Francisco > Bakersville, etc.

So it's kind of hard to precisely weigh the outcomes. The best I've seen is NLJ 250 + Fed Clerkship, because there's enough people going after those jobs at every school that it's fair to say the schools that provide the best opportunities will best meet those very common desires. "Public Interest" should also probably play a role, but the hidden hierarchies in that field are even more obscure because none of those people want to outright admit they are prestige whores like almost everyone else... we could probably use Federal Government work + Big ["prestigious"] City Gov't work, but I have no idea how to weigh the non-profits.

How much does all this have to do w/ UGPA, LSAT, Class Size, square footage of library, cost per student? Very Little. There's no point in using those #'s as a substitute for the outcomes when the #'s for the outcomes are available (or at least, could be).

Heh yeah, I was aware of those things, but it's good to put in here so people know what the fuck we are talking about. That being said, I'll take a person who is driven and unafraid to take chances to produce results over a brainiac who is afraid to take risks and learn from them any day.

[Borhas]

yeah I was sort of surprised a regular poster wanted an explanation, but now it makes sense

and yes, God Hates Cowards http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jt856_nRxQk

[crEEp]

Ignoring the tripe from people convinced that USNWR has a vendetta against their particular schools, I think it is about time for an "open" standard to emerge. With the proliferation of social networking came tools, like LinkedIn, that have proven pretty useful in the professional world. As time progresses, I think we will begin to see more data emerge, allowing for more accurate metrics to be factored into these equations. USNWR will undoubtedly exist for some time, but I think within the next ten years, we will begin to see a shift away from 'prestige,' as it becomes clearer and clear that skills and productivity are what make law firms profitable.

That's not to say schools like YHS aren't churning out absurdly productive graduates, but rather that looking to a single ranking for "overall law school quality" is an inherently fallacious and misleading statistic. Just like you wouldn't go to MIT to major in English Literature, I have a feeling that law school specialization will become better defined in the future, and lawyers will become more inclined to ignore composite ranking schemes like the USNWR in favor of open standards.

[dr123]

Mostly just employers. No big deal.

I doubt employers actually give a shit what US News says. US news just parrots back the preexisting hierarchy of school prestige.

agreed, where I work they hire almost solely from the local LS, and I doubt that would change even if the us news dropped them to unranked,

Anecdotal but my understanding is outside of major markets and in fairly closed markets (like the one I work in) this is how it goes.