Being a lawyer and having a family -- your thoughts? Forum

[cornellbeez]

The demographics of future populations doesn't factor into my calculus of whether to have a family -- I won't be alive for it.

[dextermorgan]

If you don't have kids you don't have to worry about how fucked up the future will be.

[NZA]

You live in China or India?

No, no, the US. I'm talking about waste generated per capita. This is totally off-topic, anyway.

[mpj_3050]

In this harsh economic climate (and new crappier America) you can't afford to have little urchins leeching off of you for years.

Seriously though, I think one kid would be okay.

[cornellbeez]

In this harsh economic climate (and new crappier America) you can't afford to have little urchins leeching off of you for years.

Seriously though, I think one kid would be okay.

My thoughts, too. Some article mentioned that our generation is moving back home at a much higher rate than previous gens, and I think around 40% of people in their 20s is unemployed.

Unless America's economy improves a ton, it's risky having a child who will rely on you until they are 30+. Not to mention, our generation probably won't have SS benefits, so we'll have to save up a lot more for retirement.

I also don't understand the appeal of having too many children, although I'm not sure most families intend on having 3+. In the families I have known with 3+ kids, the kids after 1 and 2 were almost always accidents.

[d34d9823]

Last time I checked, there wasn't any semen in mucus and saliva.

Too easy.

[cornellbeez]

And this sounds douchey, but if you want something to love you -- which seems to be a primary or at least tertiary motivator among those who want children -- why not get a dog? Most kids will end up being selfish twats with no regard for their parents (seriously).

[nygrrrl]

I'm just in total awe of the new mothers in my company when they tell me about handling parenthood - and we have extremely flexible schedules as it is - so I can barely imagine beginning to balance all that with the stresses of biglaw.

BigLaw is different. I'm not sure how you'd do it. I have a male friend who did (he gave me a GREAT piece of advice: if you can't be home for dinner with your kids, make breakfast special: get up early, cook, sit down with them, talk) but his wife was a SAHM and I have a female friend who quit BigLaw and moved to in-house counsel when she had #1. Those hours (and the travel) are just brutal.
BUT.... lawyer does not necessarily = big law

[nygrrrl]

And this sounds douchey, but if you want something to love you -- which seems to be a primary or at least tertiary motivator among those who want children -- why not get a dog? Most kids will end up being selfish twats with no regard for their parents (seriously).

Wow did you REALLY just post that? REALLY?
Having "something" love me was not even remotely in my mind, when I had kids.
And watch your language. (seriously)

[AreJay711]

In this harsh economic climate (and new crappier America) you can't afford to have little urchins leeching off of you for years.

Seriously though, I think one kid would be okay.

My thoughts, too. Some article mentioned that our generation is moving back home at a much higher rate than previous gens, and I think around 40% of people in their 20s is unemployed.

Unless America's economy improves a ton, it's risky having a child who will rely on you until they are 30+. Not to mention, our generation probably won't have SS benefits, so we'll have to save up a lot more for retirement.

I also don't understand the appeal of having too many children, although I'm not sure most families intend on having 3+. In the families I have known with 3+ kids, the kids after 1 and 2 were almost always accidents.

My children won't be living with me after about 24 no matter what. You can afford an apartment making $8 an hour -- my gf does -- so there is no excuse at 24 why you aren't on your own.

I want to have children because I think I would be a good father and hopefully I will have the means to provide them with a good home. Also, I think having kids is kind of a status thing. I'd never just want to have just one because most only-children are spoiled.

[nygrrrl]

My children won't be living with me after about 24 no matter what.

24??!?!?!?? 21! My parents gave me 2 weeks after I finished college before they basically took my keys back. And I LOVE THEM for doing that. They gave me the tools and set me on my way.

[cornellbeez]

In this harsh economic climate (and new crappier America) you can't afford to have little urchins leeching off of you for years.

Seriously though, I think one kid would be okay.

My thoughts, too. Some article mentioned that our generation is moving back home at a much higher rate than previous gens, and I think around 40% of people in their 20s is unemployed.

Unless America's economy improves a ton, it's risky having a child who will rely on you until they are 30+. Not to mention, our generation probably won't have SS benefits, so we'll have to save up a lot more for retirement.

I also don't understand the appeal of having too many children, although I'm not sure most families intend on having 3+. In the families I have known with 3+ kids, the kids after 1 and 2 were almost always accidents.

My children won't be living with me after about 24 no matter what. You can afford an apartment making $8 an hour -- my gf does -- so there is no excuse at 24 why you aren't on your own.

I want to have children because I think I would be a good father and hopefully I will have the means to provide them with a good home. Also, I think having kids is kind of a status thing. I'd never just want to have just one because most only-children are spoiled.

I don't know. You say that now, but you'll most likely unconditionally love your child and let them live with you until they get a higher-paying job.

But why have children just because you think you'd be a good father? Is it is because you'll derive utility from success?

I agree it's a status thing, or more so, an "avoid the taboo" thing. (Many socioeconomically bereft people have lots of children, so I don't think it necessarily relates to socioeconomic status.) I think society's norm is for families to have children. It's somewhat "taboo" not to have any, and people will automatically assume that you have various negative physical/personality characteristics.

I think the motivations I have for possibly wanting a child include: (1) avoiding being deemed taboo by society; and (2) because I love my s/o and I'm curious to see what we'd produce, which is somewhat of a lame reason.

As for spoiling, although there are various ways to define "spoiled," I think it really just depends on how wealthy you are and how you treat your children, not so much the number of children in the family. I know plenty of kids from large, wealthy families who are spoiled because their parents have no expectations of them and merely give them a ton of money.

[daesonesb]

Perhaps an anecdote would help?
Growing up, my dad was a professor and my mom was a surgeon. They both were at work most nights until 5-9 pm, and my mom took call all the time. We had babysitters through to the time we got into middle school, most of whom were awesome. My parents stayed crazy involved in my life even though they were busy. If they were heading to a party, and the people there had kids, they would ask ahead if it was OK to bring us along. Whenever they had weekends free, they would take us out to do things like hikes or the theater or whatever.

Long story short, they made it work despite everything because they were crazy dedicated. That being said, the stress on THEIR relationship ended up pushing them to divorce, and I have to wonder if that was a product of them trying to balance busy careers with having kids.

[AreJay711]

My children won't be living with me after about 24 no matter what.

24??!?!?!?? 21! My parents gave me 2 weeks after I finished college before they basically took my keys back. And I LOVE THEM for doing that. They gave me the tools and set me on my way.

Ehh I'll give them a few years to gather some money and get settled in.... I'm too kind i know.

I was kicked out at 18 but kept my key and was able to stay for $200 a month during summers. In fairness, I probably used that much in food and electricity.

[nygrrrl]

My children won't be living with me after about 24 no matter what.

24??!?!?!?? 21! My parents gave me 2 weeks after I finished college before they basically took my keys back. And I LOVE THEM for doing that. They gave me the tools and set me on my way.

Ehh I'll give them a few years to gather some money and get settled in.... I'm too kind i know.

I was kicked out at 18 but kept my key and was able to stay for $200 a month during summers. In fairness, I probably used that much in food and electricity.

pushover. (but srsly, that's nice. i wouldn't put one of mine out on the street but I loved what my dad always said: "I'll support you in whatever you decided to do... as long as you can support YOURSELF!" )

[AreJay711]

In this harsh economic climate (and new crappier America) you can't afford to have little urchins leeching off of you for years.

Seriously though, I think one kid would be okay.

My thoughts, too. Some article mentioned that our generation is moving back home at a much higher rate than previous gens, and I think around 40% of people in their 20s is unemployed.

Unless America's economy improves a ton, it's risky having a child who will rely on you until they are 30+. Not to mention, our generation probably won't have SS benefits, so we'll have to save up a lot more for retirement.

I also don't understand the appeal of having too many children, although I'm not sure most families intend on having 3+. In the families I have known with 3+ kids, the kids after 1 and 2 were almost always accidents.

My children won't be living with me after about 24 no matter what. You can afford an apartment making $8 an hour -- my gf does -- so there is no excuse at 24 why you aren't on your own.

I want to have children because I think I would be a good father and hopefully I will have the means to provide them with a good home. Also, I think having kids is kind of a status thing. I'd never just want to have just one because most only-children are spoiled.

I don't know. You say that now, but you'll most likely unconditionally love your child and let them live with you until they get a higher-paying job.

But why have children just because you think you'd be a good father? Is it is because you'll derive utility from success?

I agree it's a status thing, or more so, an "avoid the taboo" thing. (Many socioeconomically bereft people have lots of children, so I don't think it necessarily relates to socioeconomic status.) I think society's norm is for families to have children. It's somewhat "taboo" not to have any, and people will automatically assume that you have various negative physical/personality characteristics.

I think the motivations I have for possibly wanting a child include: (1) avoiding being deemed taboo by society; and (2) because I love my s/o and I'm curious to see what we'd produce, which is somewhat of a lame reason.

As for spoiling, although there are various ways to define "spoiled," I think it really just depends on how wealthy you are and how you treat your children, not so much the number of children in the family. I know plenty of kids from large, wealthy families who are spoiled because their parents have no expectations of them and merely give them a ton of money.

Yeah, I think most people might to it to avoid a taboo. I want 4 or 5 kids so it is more the size for me that is the status rather than just the normal one or two. Obviously, that very well might change once I have one.

[firemed]

I'm raising a three-year-old. Law school will be a nice break for me.

Ditto, and plus +100000000000

[homestyle28]

Perhaps an anecdote would help?
Growing up, my dad was a professor and my mom was a surgeon. They both were at work most nights until 5-9 pm, and my mom took call all the time. We had babysitters through to the time we got into middle school, most of whom were awesome. My parents stayed crazy involved in my life even though they were busy. If they were heading to a party, and the people there had kids, they would ask ahead if it was OK to bring us along. Whenever they had weekends free, they would take us out to do things like hikes or the theater or whatever.

Long story short, they made it work despite everything because they were crazy dedicated. That being said, the stress on THEIR relationship ended up pushing them to divorce, and I have to wonder if that was a product of them trying to balance busy careers with having kids.

Stories like this (minus divorce) make me think it's possible. My sis-in-law and her husband are both consultants w/ two kids. She's gone 10 nights or so a month and he's gone every week m-thurs. They made sure to hire a nanny they like and use thier income to make life more livable and use what free time they have to be w/fam. Skype, cell phones, etc make staying in touch easier than it used to be.

[firemed]

My personal opinion?

Totally doable.

I work 60 hours a week. My wife goes to school 9-12 credit hours a semester and works 24 hours a week. And we make it work for each other, and for our 3 year old kid. Everyone seems pretty happy.

So, barring big law, I would say no real problems that can't be overcome by giving most of your hobbies, TV programs, video games, and cutting way back on your reading time. It isn't as bad as it sounds... I read about half an hour a night, watch a movie a week, and maybe get 4 hours of TV a week. And I think it might be realistic, at this point at least, to put 3-4 hours a week into my hobbies again. I also spend a couple hours a week alone with my wife.


ETA: my work situation is special, so I am not counting downtime there into the above.... if I did it would jump way up, but it isn't really the same.

ETAx2: also, it could be genetics, but we do spend a fair amount of time with our kiddo, and despite our hectic schedules she is doing quite well

[BaronDetroit]

Aren't all the youngsters negligently breeding essentially living off of goverment subsidies to ensure their existance in the name of helping children?

[Veyron]

Yes, being a lawyer is not YET an offense punishable by sterilization.

[firemed]

Yes, being a lawyer is not YET an offense punishable by sterilization.

I had my kid before applying, just in case they changed their minds.

[firemed]

Aren't all the youngsters negligently breeding essentially living off of goverment subsidies to ensure their existance in the name of helping children?

I really hope that was a pathetic (and, BTW, not funny) attempt at a joke.

[Kaitlyn]

I think this is a thought-provoking quandary, having just chanced upon an article in The New Republic about women who opt to stay at home with their children at the expense of their growing careers. I'd be particularly interested in hearing what other girls around here think of balancing family and law.

Link dump: an interesting article about working mothers: http://nymag.com/nymetro/urban/family/features/n_7837/

I worry about this all the time, and I think for us women, it is a far trickier balance to strike. Even though I'm in my early twenties, I'm just out of graduate school, where many of my peers were in their thirties. It was a reoccurring theme that many men who were doing notoriously difficult or draining disciplines that took years to complete were co-habitating/engaged/married (sometimes with children) to women who did things like, say, creative writing or History of Art, and who had more, ahem, free time on their hands. I saw a handful of power-couples, but I rarely saw it the other way around.

I think as women we need to start thinking about these things EARLY and really get honest with ourselves about what kind of life we want, rather than just waiting for it to happen to us, and recognize that something has got to give eventually. For some it will be any "me time" whatsoever as a cost of trying balance BIGLAW and child-rearing; for others, it will be scaling down your career ambitions so you can have more time with the kids and your partner.

I, for one, hope I can do the BIGLAW thing for a while, then have a child, spend a year or two out of the workforce, then perhaps use this period to segue into business school and take my career in a new direction that will give me slightly more flexible work hours. Ah, the mad ambitions of a 0L. One can dream.

[MSUPHL]

hopefully i make enough $$$ (70k+ for now) to allow my future wife to work part time (under 30 hrs/week) and raise the kid(s).