DePaul Law Rising 3L taking Questions Forum

[Ender Wiggins]

Hey, all,

Long time lurker, first time poster.

DePaul has been in the news a lot recently, so if you have any questions about the school, let's hear'em!

[Kobe_Teeth]

Do you have a job?

[Kobe_Teeth]

How's the Chicago legal market in general?

What % of your classmates have jobs? What % of those jobs are legal jobs?

[Ender Wiggins]

Do you have a job?

Alas, no.

OCI was a bloodbath last fall...only 6 firms interviewed.

Law Review folks are in bad shape, so I'm pretty freaked out right now. I heard that one girl got an offer at Katten Muchin (deferred), and all the BLSA kids have jobs (mostly government), but other than that...diddly.

[chicagolaw2013]

Based on your last post, are we all fucked? (Entering this fall at DePaul...)

EDIT: I should note, I am NOT looking at Biglaw...no desire whatsoever. Looking at small family law firms for post-grad.

[Ender Wiggins]

How's the Chicago legal market in general?

What % of your classmates have jobs? What % of those jobs are legal jobs?

Well, lots of us are clerking over the summer for $13-15/hour, but many Chicago firms are actually trying to get away with paying nothing for the privilege to "intern". And the externship office has changed its policy about allowing students to work at for-profit firms for course credit. It used to be that you could only get credit at a public interest or government gig, but not anymore. And the PI and ID firms are totally taking advantage of it.

The Chicago market is terrible right now. It's really saturated, and having six law schools here doesn't help. DePaul traditionally has had good placement in Chicago, as it's a strong regional school (Mayor Daley is an alum) and we produce a lot of judges, apparently. The problem is that there are still 2008, 09, and 10 grads out there taking up whatever scraps there are.

I know of a handful of people that graduated a couple years ahead of me who ended up working at the law school for lack of anything else. I heard that some 08 grads are working on doc review for Blago, but that was the first legal job that those guys had (apparently one was on LR).

None of my friends have a permanent job offer yet....

[Kobe_Teeth]

Wow.

[Ender Wiggins]

Based on your last post, are we all fucked? (Entering this fall at DePaul...)

EDIT: I should note, I am NOT looking at Biglaw...no desire whatsoever. Looking at small family law firms for post-grad.

Well, I sincerely hope not, but I've always been a glass half empty kind of person.

If you are URM, you are still in a decent position, as those BLSA folks seem to be doing fine (45-50K government gigs--city attorneys doing traffic tickets, etc.) LLSA isn't placing that well yet, that I know of. The grads are all studying for the bar now and hoping that once they get sworn in next November that things will have picked up.

[Aqualibrium]

50k in Chicago = "doing fine"

sounds more to me like everyone at depaul is screwed; some more so than others.

[chicagolaw2013]

50k in Chicago = "doing fine"

sounds more to me like everyone at depaul is screwed; some more so than others.

Depends where you are from.

I mean, granted, I hope to be making WAY more than that when I graduate, but one wouldn't be living destitute here on 50k. In NYC, absolutely a person would be holed up in a cardboard box with a 50k salary. But my fiance and I are living on about 70k total right now (I'm collecting unemployment, anything would be better than how my life is going right now) with two dogs that like to eat, and we're making it just fine.

[Ender Wiggins]

50k in Chicago = "doing fine"

sounds more to me like everyone at depaul is screwed; some more so than others.

Well, the folks at Kent and Loyola are in about the same situation...rankings aside, the market regards the three schools as about equal.

I feel bad for the John Marshall grads, as they are really screwed.

And $50K is doing well compared to $0. Doc review used to be what we could expect to do if we couldn't land a firm gig of some stripe, but that's getting harder to come by with all these laid off attorneys and 08/09 grads floating around. A friend of mine only managed to land a doc review gig because she speaks Japanese...so maybe it's time to bone up on your languages!

[chicagolaw2013]

50k in Chicago = "doing fine"

sounds more to me like everyone at depaul is screwed; some more so than others.

Well, the folks at Kent and Loyola are in about the same situation...rankings aside, the market regards the three schools as about equal.

I feel bad for the John Marshall grads, as they are really screwed.

And $50K is doing well compared to $0. Doc review used to be what we could expect to do if we couldn't land a firm gig of some stripe, but that's getting harder to come by with all these laid off attorneys and 08/09 grads floating around. A friend of mine only managed to land a doc review gig because she speaks Japanese...so maybe it's time to bone up on your languages!

HA, I've been thinking about getting Rosetta Stone...I might wanna get on that lol.

[romothesavior]

Wow.

+1. Holy shit balls.

So is it safe to say you wouldn't recommend going to DePaul, Kent, or Loyola?

[Ender Wiggins]

I mean, granted, I hope to be making WAY more than that when I graduate, but one wouldn't be living destitute here on 50k. In NYC, absolutely a person would be holed up in a cardboard box with a 50k salary. But my fiance and I are living on about 70k total right now (I'm collecting unemployment, anything would be better than how my life is going right now) with two dogs that like to eat, and we're making it just fine.

I think you mentioned that you wanted to go to a small firm for family law, right? Well, starting salaries (if you can get one as a first-year--the smaller firms like to take experienced attorneys a few years out as they don't have time/resources to train them, and the glut of applicants means that they can be pickier) are actually in the $40-45K range.

[chicagolaw2013]

I mean, granted, I hope to be making WAY more than that when I graduate, but one wouldn't be living destitute here on 50k. In NYC, absolutely a person would be holed up in a cardboard box with a 50k salary. But my fiance and I are living on about 70k total right now (I'm collecting unemployment, anything would be better than how my life is going right now) with two dogs that like to eat, and we're making it just fine.

I think you mentioned that you wanted to go to a small firm for family law, right? Well, starting salaries (if you can get one as a first-year--the smaller firms like to take experienced attorneys a few years out as they don't have time/resources to train them, and the glut of applicants means that they can be pickier) are actually in the $40-45K range.

Not necessarily the first year...I shouldn't have said "when I graduate"...I'm talking first few years (before we start having a family). As long as the 70k total between the fiance and me rises out of the gate (hoping there is NO WAY I'll be making anywhere near the measly $20k-ish that I am per year on unemp), I'll be a happy camper. I mean, we're making it, but it's very very tight.

[miamiman]

Chicago was a horrilbe market to be in this past year. It may still be a horrible market to be in. This fact should hardly be new and/or terrifying to anyone who's spent any time on these forums.

[Ender Wiggins]

I mentioned doc review before...these are the rates that they're going for in Chicago, and that's what most of the 08/09 grads I know are doing (if they can get the gigs).

--LinkRemoved-- This rate is the most common I've heard about.

This rate is on the higher end of the pay range, so it will be way more competitive:

--LinkRemoved--

And I mentioned that having Japanese was a plus...here's that listing:

--LinkRemoved--

There are lots of openings for doc review for Asian languages...but that's because there are so few folks with those skills...you have to be able to read Kanji for the Japanese projects, and it's a small pool of JDs who can.

[romothesavior]

Looking bad, would you say law school was a wise investment for you?

Would you recommend that anyone go to DePaul/Kent/Loyola?

Where do you personally draw the cutoff line for where law school is worth it?

[Ender Wiggins]

I mean, granted, I hope to be making WAY more than that when I graduate, but one wouldn't be living destitute here on 50k. In NYC, absolutely a person would be holed up in a cardboard box with a 50k salary. But my fiance and I are living on about 70k total right now (I'm collecting unemployment, anything would be better than how my life is going right now) with two dogs that like to eat, and we're making it just fine.

I think you mentioned that you wanted to go to a small firm for family law, right? Well, starting salaries (if you can get one as a first-year--the smaller firms like to take experienced attorneys a few years out as they don't have time/resources to train them, and the glut of applicants means that they can be pickier) are actually in the $40-45K range.

Not necessarily the first year...I shouldn't have said "when I graduate"...I'm talking first few years (before we start having a family). As long as the 70k total between the fiance and me rises out of the gate (hoping there is NO WAY I'll be making anywhere near the measly $20k-ish that I am per year on unemp), I'll be a happy camper. I mean, we're making it, but it's very very tight.

Did they give you a scholly? DePaul is really bad with yanking scholarships that are tied to GPAs. The URMs typically get 2.2 GPA scholarships, which are pretty hard to lose, but the majority of scholarships are tied to 3.5 and above, which about 60% of 1Ls lose after first year. And the grade scandal doesn't help either...

[chicagolaw2013]

I mean, granted, I hope to be making WAY more than that when I graduate, but one wouldn't be living destitute here on 50k. In NYC, absolutely a person would be holed up in a cardboard box with a 50k salary. But my fiance and I are living on about 70k total right now (I'm collecting unemployment, anything would be better than how my life is going right now) with two dogs that like to eat, and we're making it just fine.

I think you mentioned that you wanted to go to a small firm for family law, right? Well, starting salaries (if you can get one as a first-year--the smaller firms like to take experienced attorneys a few years out as they don't have time/resources to train them, and the glut of applicants means that they can be pickier) are actually in the $40-45K range.

Not necessarily the first year...I shouldn't have said "when I graduate"...I'm talking first few years (before we start having a family). As long as the 70k total between the fiance and me rises out of the gate (hoping there is NO WAY I'll be making anywhere near the measly $20k-ish that I am per year on unemp), I'll be a happy camper. I mean, we're making it, but it's very very tight.

Did they give you a scholly? DePaul is really bad with yanking scholarships that are tied to GPAs. The URMs typically get 2.2 GPA scholarships, which are pretty hard to lose, but the majority of scholarships are tied to 3.5 and above, which about 60% of 1Ls lose after first year. And the grade scandal doesn't help either...

Mine's tied to GPA, gotta keep a 3.2. According to the website, and archived class ranks, if I got a 3.2 on the nose, I'd be in the top 30 percent. I figure that I'll hopefully keep it (no guarantee, obviously, but I really don't have a choice, other than to drop out if I lose it).

I've heard about the grade scandal, but haven't actually seen detailed info on it. Link?

[miamiman]

probably this

http://abovethelaw.com/2010/06/deans-fi ... ge-of-law/

[Ender Wiggins]

Looking bad, would you say law school was a wise investment for you?

Would you recommend that anyone go to DePaul/Kent/Loyola?

Where do you personally draw the cutoff line for where law school is worth it?

Well, it remains to be seen whether it was a good investment for me. I didn't get a scholarship, so I paid sticker, and I wrote onto law review--but the problem with that is that firms still look only at GPAs, not LR itself, so merely being on law review hasn't helped that much other than getting me OCI interviews that went nowhere.

I'm really not sure how I'll deal with the student loans when I graduate...I had to get private loans in addition to Direct Loans, so I can't really get IBR for those.

I'm clerking at a small employment law firm right now, but they've already told me they can't hire me as an attorney, and one of the associates let slip that the big boss only brings in clerks to get free Westlaw access.

[romothesavior]

Thanks for sharing, good luck to you.

[A'nold]

OP is flaming. Hth.

[miamiman]

I'm clerking at a small employment law firm right now, but they've already told me they can't hire me as an attorney, and one of the associates let slip that the big boss only brings in clerks to get free Westlaw access.

You're joking right? This is the most fucked up thing I've heard about in a while.