What Might DQ One On The Character & Fitness Portion Of The Forum

[thewuzzles]

bar app?

If one answered all questions honestly on his/her law school app, what might be an issue later?

If one has quit many jobs within a short period, would that be a disqualifier? If one or two of those quits was a, "Hey, I don't need this! Sayonara, suckas!", would that be a DQ'ing factor? Can one be DQ'ed for having been a bit less than gracious upon exiting a position?

So, beyond the above concerns, what (beyond criminal/academic misconduct) might DQ an applicant to the bar?

[blue5385]

1) Standards vary from state to state, but you would probably need to have committed a serious felony to be dinged, provided you disclose everything in full & your out-of-control, felony-committing days are behind you. Also, one random thing that has caused someone to be DQ'ed in the past is excessive student debt.

2) I would be shocked if someone were to be dinged for only this.

[thewuzzles]

1) Standards vary from state to state, but you would probably need to have committed a serious felony to be dinged, provided you disclose everything in full & your out-of-control, felony-committing days are behind you. Also, one random thing that has caused someone to be DQ'ed in the past is excessive student debt.

2) I would be shocked if someone were to be dinged for only this.

Yeah, I think you're probably right. I guess being a whiney quitter (and maybe a bit of a bad ass with a punk rock spirit that just won't be crushed ) shouldn't DQ someone, but it was worth asking.

Regarding excessive student debt, what are we talking about here? Wouldn't it be ironic if one dropped 200K to attend a law school, only to find that one's law school debt might prohibit him/her from using the earned degree? Ouch. I'm guessing we're talking 300K-ish debt and a history of non payment?

[blue5385]

1) Standards vary from state to state, but you would probably need to have committed a serious felony to be dinged, provided you disclose everything in full & your out-of-control, felony-committing days are behind you. Also, one random thing that has caused someone to be DQ'ed in the past is excessive student debt.

2) I would be shocked if someone were to be dinged for only this.

Yeah, I think you're probably right. I guess being a whiney quitter (and maybe a bit of a bad ass with a punk rock spirit that just won't be crushed ) shouldn't DQ someone, but it was worth asking.

Regarding excessive student debt, what are we talking about here? Wouldn't it be ironic if one dropped 200K to attend a law school, only to find that one's law school debt might prohibit him/her from using the earned degree? Ouch. I'm guessing we're talking 300K-ish debt and a history of non payment?

I don't remember the exact amount, but I think the guy had over 400k in student debt, and I'm not sure if he defaulted or had a history of non-payment.

[thewuzzles]

1) Standards vary from state to state, but you would probably need to have committed a serious felony to be dinged, provided you disclose everything in full & your out-of-control, felony-committing days are behind you. Also, one random thing that has caused someone to be DQ'ed in the past is excessive student debt.

2) I would be shocked if someone were to be dinged for only this.

Yeah, I think you're probably right. I guess being a whiney quitter (and maybe a bit of a bad ass with a punk rock spirit that just won't be crushed ) shouldn't DQ someone, but it was worth asking.

Regarding excessive student debt, what are we talking about here? Wouldn't it be ironic if one dropped 200K to attend a law school, only to find that one's law school debt might prohibit him/her from using the earned degree? Ouch. I'm guessing we're talking 300K-ish debt and a history of non payment?

I don't remember the exact amount, but I think the guy had over 400k in student debt, and I'm not sure if he defaulted or had a history of non-payment.

How could lenders continue to extend someone credit beyond 230-ish K. Good dog. He should sue his lenders. Or, maybe not.

[ToTransferOrNot]

The guy had ~$230k of debt. It took him a few tries to pass the bar, during which time he wasn't able to make payments (nor would anyone else). The loan company dicked him around re: deferment. Then, the loan company shipped the debt off to a collection agency, which tacked nearly $200k worth of penalties on. Then, the New York bar, once the guy finally managed to pass the bar exam, dinged him because he had too much in debt.

It is an absolutely fucking ridiculous case. The guy even has something approaching a biglaw job lined up, for whenever he gets a license. You're essentially talking about debtor's prison here.

If I remember, the guy's last name is Bowman.

[thewuzzles]

The guy had ~$230k of debt. It took him a few tries to pass the bar, during which time he wasn't able to make payments (nor would anyone else). The loan company dicked him around re: deferment. Then, the loan company shipped the debt off to a collection agency, which tacked nearly $200k worth of penalties on. Then, the New York bar, once the guy finally managed to pass the bar exam, dinged him because he had too much in debt.

It is an absolutely fucking ridiculous case. The guy even has something approaching a biglaw job lined up, for whenever he gets a license. You're essentially talking about debtor's prison here.

If I remember, the guy's last name is Bowman.

That's when you apply for Australian citizenship and shirk all US debt forever. Or, if that doesn't work, apply for debtor's amnesty in Venezuela.

[blue5385]

The guy had ~$230k of debt. It took him a few tries to pass the bar, during which time he wasn't able to make payments (nor would anyone else). The loan company dicked him around re: deferment. Then, the loan company shipped the debt off to a collection agency, which tacked nearly $200k worth of penalties on. Then, the New York bar, once the guy finally managed to pass the bar exam, dinged him because he had too much in debt.

It is an absolutely fucking ridiculous case. The guy even has something approaching a biglaw job lined up, for whenever he gets a license. You're essentially talking about debtor's prison here.

If I remember, the guy's last name is Bowman.

Wow, I was way off on the 400k amount. The story is actually a lot more unfair/ridiculous than I remember it.

[FeuerFrei]

.

[BobSacamano]

The guy had ~$230k of debt. It took him a few tries to pass the bar, during which time he wasn't able to make payments (nor would anyone else). The loan company dicked him around re: deferment. Then, the loan company shipped the debt off to a collection agency, which tacked nearly $200k worth of penalties on. Then, the New York bar, once the guy finally managed to pass the bar exam, dinged him because he had too much in debt.

It is an absolutely fucking ridiculous case. The guy even has something approaching a biglaw job lined up, for whenever he gets a license. You're essentially talking about debtor's prison here.

If I remember, the guy's last name is Bowman.

Didn't he claim undue hardship to defer his payments several times (for 10 years, I believe) because of some super shady "accidents?" Maybe I'm not remembering correctly, but I remember a jet ski involved.

Hey, found the article. Maybe I was off about the shadiness of the accidents, but a jet ski was involved!
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/02/busin ... ml?_r=2&hp

[thewuzzles]

This thread makes me want Dairy Queen

It's interesting you should say that because in West Virginia, one who has been denied admission to the bar or had his/her license suspended can only reapply after having worked at a Dairy Queen for a year. That's why one is said to have been "DQ'ed" upon suspension or denial of admission. True story, bro.

[mikeytwoshoes]

This thread makes me want Dairy Queen

163.14

[mikeytwoshoes]

This thread makes me want Dairy Queen

It's interesting you should say that because in West Virginia, one who has been denied admission to the bar or had his/her license suspended can only reapply after having worked at a Dairy Queen for a year. That's why one is said to have been "DQ'ed" upon suspension or denial of admission. True story, bro.

158

[ScaredWorkedBored]

Assuming full honesty?

-- In five states including Texas, a felony conviction in certain circumstances. Most states view this negatively but you can overcome it by showing rehabilitation & good character.

-- Severe mental illness that impacts ability to function reliably.

-- Major substance abuse issue.

-- The aforementioned case where the guy had run up hundreds of thousands of bad-faith debt. This is fraudulent & dishonest - not good lawyer traits.

-- Any financial fraud crime or similar is probably going to be real dicey considering this is the #1 way attorneys get disbarred.

-- Recent serious criminal conduct of any type. You can get sanctioned or disbarred for this if you do it as a lawyer, after all.

[miamiman]

how about things that are just uncouth --- ie a prior life as a stripper/escort?

[mikeytwoshoes]

how about things that are just uncouth --- ie a prior life as a stripper/escort?

Did you disclose?

[miamiman]

how about things that are just uncouth --- ie a prior life as a stripper/escort?

Did you disclose?

nope. chancing it.

[mmmadeli]

.

[mikeytwoshoes]

how about things that are just uncouth --- ie a prior life as a stripper/escort?

Did you disclose?

nope. chancing it.

You're boned and not just in your prior life.

[AngryAvocado]

how about things that are just uncouth --- ie a prior life as a stripper/escort?

Did you disclose?

nope. chancing it.

Well played.

[Kilpatrick]

In Illinois you can't be a Nazi.

[mikeytwoshoes]

--ImageRemoved--

[Foosters Galore]

I've wondered something similar to this as well -- one of my closest friends in college was charged with a federal felony while we were in school (a computer crimes thing, sort of in the stupid-teenager-shit camp). He eventually plead it down to a misdemeanor by working as an undercover cooperating informant for the FBI for about eighteen months, but he was sentenced and charged and served some time on house arrest and briefly in prison our senior year. The reason I wonder if this is an issue for me is that senior year we were roommates, which means we were on a lease together, and it was a reasonably well-publicized case (though it was more well-publicized in Pennsylvania, where it happened, and not in California where I'll be going to school. But should I worry about the association? He is now a law-abiding citizen, and he was NOT convicted of a felony. And I myself am squeaky-clean.

122.

[mmmadeli]

I've wondered something similar to this as well -- one of my closest friends in college was charged with a federal felony while we were in school (a computer crimes thing, sort of in the stupid-teenager-shit camp). He eventually plead it down to a misdemeanor by working as an undercover cooperating informant for the FBI for about eighteen months, but he was sentenced and charged and served some time on house arrest and briefly in prison our senior year. The reason I wonder if this is an issue for me is that senior year we were roommates, which means we were on a lease together, and it was a reasonably well-publicized case (though it was more well-publicized in Pennsylvania, where it happened, and not in California where I'll be going to school. But should I worry about the association? He is now a law-abiding citizen, and he was NOT convicted of a felony. And I myself am squeaky-clean.

122.

Well it is true. :p

[dslslave]

Question:

If you didn't initially report a judicial affairs undergrad incident on your law school app, but you later submitted an addendum to your law school app with that info, and reported it on your bar app, would the bar get upset or care?

A classmate was just asked to explain the inconsistencies. The judicial affairs thing was just a written reprimand, and wasn't anything serious.