Will Lexis and Westlaw deactivate our accounts this summer? Forum

[General Tso]

Both of them have forms to fill out if you are working at a nonprofit or unpaid this summer to extend your access. I am clerking at a small firm and I need access or I am dead. So am I screwed?

[helfer snooterbagon]

Do you need Westlaw/Lexis access to do your work for the firm? If that is the case, then you really shouldn't be using your account. However, a number of my classmates did do exactly that.

[General Tso]

Do you need Westlaw/Lexis access to do your work for the firm? If that is the case, then you really shouldn't be using your account. However, a number of my classmates did do exactly that.

yep I need it. problem is my firm does mostly transactional work but I have been assigned to the one litigation case. since not many people around here know much about litigation I have a particularly strong need for wexis.

[helfer snooterbagon]

I am sure you can get a copy of your account agreement that specifies exactly what you can and cannot do. You could always approach the rep and perhaps they will be sympathetic, but I kind of doubt it. Probably best to talk it over with your firm. Also, may be worth talking with the legal librarians as well. At my school they put on a number of presentations during 2L and 3L about cost effective research and how to get information for free.

[wiseowl]

yea, it's iffy. if you get caught you're up a creek, but not many get caught. i'd see how far you can get with Google Scholar, HeinOnline, Justia, PACER, Casemaker, etc.

[Renzo]

Lexis will let you extend for summer for the purpose of personal education/familiarization...

[03121202698008]

Pretty sure this is specifically prohibited. They are required to pay for a firm account. I remember reading somewhere about someone who got into hot water after they advertised on craigslist that they needed an associate with an account for the summer.

[thesealocust]

oops

[Anonymous Loser]

Is this an unpaid position or something? I would run from a firm that was unable to afford even the most basic subscription to either Lexis or Westlaw; absolutely no good could come from getting involved with such a firm.

[General Tso]

Is this an unpaid position or something? I would run from a firm that was unable to afford even the most basic subscription to either Lexis or Westlaw; absolutely no good could come from getting involved with such a firm.

even a firm that hardly does any litigation?

[lostjake]

Life is give and take. Maybe you'll have to slip one by Westlaw, but its better for you to have something on your resume, and hopefully you'll be learning something while you're there.

[JG Hall]

.

[Anonymous Loser]

Is this an unpaid position or something? I would run from a firm that was unable to afford even the most basic subscription to either Lexis or Westlaw; absolutely no good could come from getting involved with such a firm.

even a firm that hardly does any litigation?

1) If the firm is so ill-equipped to handle litigation that their case management strategy is to bring in a 1L with a student Westlaw account, perhaps the firm shouldn't be taking on such matters.

2) Even the very basic transactional/familiy law/trusts & estates work is going to require occasional legal research. If the firm is unable to negotiate a favorable service contract with the local Lexis rep, I would be concerned about the firm's ability to develop profitable rate arrangements with clients, not to mention settlement negotiations with adverse parties.

3) How much a resume boost can you seriously expect to get from a cut-rate firm that is most likely viewed with a certain amount of disdain in the local legal community?

[General Tso]

Is this an unpaid position or something? I would run from a firm that was unable to afford even the most basic subscription to either Lexis or Westlaw; absolutely no good could come from getting involved with such a firm.

even a firm that hardly does any litigation?

1) If the firm is so ill-equipped to handle litigation that their case management strategy is to bring in a 1L with a student Westlaw account, perhaps the firm shouldn't be taking on such matters.

2) Even the very basic transactional/familiy law/trusts & estates work is going to require occasional legal research. If the firm is unable to negotiate a favorable service contract with the local Lexis rep, I would be concerned about the firm's ability to develop profitable rate arrangements with clients, not to mention settlement negotiations with adverse parties.

3) How much a resume boost can you seriously expect to get from a cut-rate firm that is most likely viewed with a certain amount of disdain in the local legal community?

You are leaping to way too many conclusions my friend. This firm is rolling in it. We have a major (T14) law library nearby, I will just use that for now.

How much of a resume boost would it have been if I had sat at home this summer like 1/2 my classmates? I've learned a shit ton about day to day legal practice in one week, and I'm getting paid enough to cover my bills through the summer. Absolutely no good?

[JG Hall]

.

[Anonymous Loser]

Perhaps I am jumping to conclusions, but when a law firm lacks the legal industry's most basic litigation tools, yet still takes on litigation matters, it's hard not to speculate that they are either financially troubled or poorly managed. Be especially diligent in your research: the firm's limited research capabilities could very possibly become the focal point of a malpractice proceeding should the matter end unfavorably for the client. Best of luck.

[Duralex]

All of that seems a little harsh, but I'd be cautious too.

Fastcase is available for $60/mo (in some states your employers may already have access through the bar association, and Fastcase might also be less fussy about off-season student access.) However, you can't fully rely on it as a citator so after gathering your cases of interest it will be off to that library to crack open the bound version of Shepards.

[General Tso]

All of that seems a little harsh,

No dude, it's perfectly logical to infer from a lack of westlaw that:

a. nothing good can come from this firm
b. my resume is already irreparably harmed
c. it is inevitable I will soon find myself testifying in malpractice proceedings

you guys know these legal research databases have only been around for ~10 years right? I guess that explains why the legal job market is tanking. in the past there was a 1:1 ratio between each ordinary lawsuit and its corresponding malpractice suit. damn it wexis you are killing our job prospects!

[General Tso]

Half of your classmates are sitting home this summer?

Haha.

well, that was probably a bit of a stretch. but most people i talked to in the weeks before finals still didnt have anything. i have heard that other sections may have had more success. In any event very few people have paid jobs, so in that respect I consider myself extremely fortunate.

[Renzo]

All of that seems a little harsh,

No dude, it's perfectly logical to infer from a lack of westlaw that:

a. nothing good can come from this firm
b. my resume is already irreparably harmed
c. it is inevitable I will soon find myself testifying in malpractice proceedings

you guys know these legal research databases have only been around for ~10 years right? I guess that explains why the legal job market is tanking. in the past there was a 1:1 ratio between each ordinary lawsuit and its corresponding malpractice suit. damn it wexis you are killing our job prospects!

There actually weren't any lawsuits until Lexis was invented, they just solved problems with deathmatches.

[Mr. Pablo]

All of that seems a little harsh,

No dude, it's perfectly logical to infer from a lack of westlaw that:

a. nothing good can come from this firm
b. my resume is already irreparably harmed
c. it is inevitable I will soon find myself testifying in malpractice proceedings

you guys know these legal research databases have only been around for ~10 years right? I guess that explains why the legal job market is tanking. in the past there was a 1:1 ratio between each ordinary lawsuit and its corresponding malpractice suit. damn it wexis you are killing our job prospects!

There actually weren't any lawsuits until Lexis was invented, they just solved problems with deathmatches.

Wait. WTF? We don't solve legal issues with deathmatches anymore? I've already shipped my weapons and armor to school. Shit. What about my stick with nails in it? Don't we get to use those still?

[Renzo]

All of that seems a little harsh,

No dude, it's perfectly logical to infer from a lack of westlaw that:

a. nothing good can come from this firm
b. my resume is already irreparably harmed
c. it is inevitable I will soon find myself testifying in malpractice proceedings

you guys know these legal research databases have only been around for ~10 years right? I guess that explains why the legal job market is tanking. in the past there was a 1:1 ratio between each ordinary lawsuit and its corresponding malpractice suit. damn it wexis you are killing our job prospects!

There actually weren't any lawsuits until Lexis was invented, they just solved problems with deathmatches.

Wait. WTF? We don't solve legal issues with deathmatches anymore? I've already shipped my weapons and armor to school. Shit. What about my stick with nails in it? Don't we get to use those still?

No, it's ok, you'll still need it for the journal competition.

[Anonymous Loser]

All of that seems a little harsh,

No dude, it's perfectly logical to infer from a lack of westlaw that:

a. nothing good can come from this firm
b. my resume is already irreparably harmed
c. it is inevitable I will soon find myself testifying in malpractice proceedings

you guys know these legal research databases have only been around for ~10 years right? I guess that explains why the legal job market is tanking. in the past there was a 1:1 ratio between each ordinary lawsuit and its corresponding malpractice suit. damn it wexis you are killing our job prospects!

Look, if you want to associate yourself with a firm that is unable to keep pace with the modern practice of law, so be it. As for myself, I spent the morning in a complementary training session with my firm's Lexis rep, after which I received a Lexis ID code which will enable me to utilize the database at no cost to the firm for two weeks. More importantly, I received both a mousepad and pen emblazoned with the Lexis logo, in addition to a totebag which lacks an identifying logo, but does proudly display an inspirational slogan.

And yes, you are correct: it is true that legal research databases are a relatively recent development. Actually, come to think of it, email, faxes, and PDF's are also technological developments that have only become widely accepted within the past ten years. Has your firm adopted these new-fangled innovations as well? Or are they still waiting to see if they'll really catch on?

[Mr. Pablo]

I spent the morning in a complementary training session with my firm's Lexis rep.... More importantly, I received both a mousepad and pen emblazoned with the Lexis logo, in addition to a totebag which lacks an identifying logo, but does proudly display an inspirational slogan.

This might be one of the best lines to grace the pages of TLS. Ever.

[Duralex]

All of that seems a little harsh,

No dude, it's perfectly logical to infer from a lack of westlaw that:

a. nothing good can come from this firm
b. my resume is already irreparably harmed
c. it is inevitable I will soon find myself testifying in malpractice proceedings

you guys know these legal research databases have only been around for ~10 years right? I guess that explains why the legal job market is tanking. in the past there was a 1:1 ratio between each ordinary lawsuit and its corresponding malpractice suit. damn it wexis you are killing our job prospects!

Just to keep it real -- we had Westlaw (or LN-can't recall) access via a dialup text-based terminal on a Mac SE/30 some time around 1990, and I think we had already had it available for a few years at that point. (It was first introduced in the '70s--picture Matthew Broderick in Wargames with the acoustically coupled modem that strapped onto the phone receiver.) Our setup was complete with a dot-matrix ImageWriter for printouts. I think a little bit later on they released a custom client that was basically still a textual terminal with a menuing system, better hypertext, and a simplistic query builder. Until that point, the bound Shepards was probably still easier (and maybe even faster sometimes.) A little later, the web versions came along and ended the debate. These days, while it's possible to do it all with books it really is a huge time-waster compared to a database.