-delete Forum

[mootness]

honey, that doesn't mean you dictate how the prof teaches.

Again, try to read more carefully. Nobody was or is trying to dictate how she teaches. You can bring forward an idea, but that's not the same as dictating.

[pancakes3]

I don't think that paying thousands of dollars entitles you to even bring forward an idea.

[zhenders]

Read first page; the rest tldr.

OP seriously, stand back and read some of the shit you've written here. You come across as entitled, whiny, a know-it-all, and suffering from a fully external locus of control. You've just gotta stop. Just. Stop. I mean honestly I feel like on the basis of this thread alone you could potentially fail C&F.

ETA: ask around about how LRW is taught at any school. Welcome to law school. On that note, hopefully you aren't in law school to learn the law; they don't teach that here either (by any professor's own admission).

[A. Nony Mouse]

honey, that doesn't mean you dictate how the prof teaches.

Again, try to read more carefully. Nobody was or is trying to dictate how she teaches. You can bring forward an idea, but that's not the same as dictating.

Nah, it sounds like you were trying to dictate how she teaches. See raspberries' quotes (and saying "I'm paying thousands of dollars for this course" isn't denying that you were demanding, it's justifying it).

[mootness]

honey, that doesn't mean you dictate how the prof teaches.

Again, try to read more carefully. Nobody was or is trying to dictate how she teaches. You can bring forward an idea, but that's not the same as dictating.

Nah, it sounds like you were trying to dictate how she teaches. See raspberries' quotes (and saying "I'm paying thousands of dollars for this course" isn't denying that you were demanding, it's justifying it).

lol, why are you even going on about this? does this help you in some way? in any case, here's the email again: "Accordingly, I wonder if you could implement my suggestion that you provide a master document wherein your instructions and expectations for the next assignment are clearly articulated. It would also help my learning if it were possible for me to record classes from now on". dictating would be more like: "implement x or y". just an fyi in case you don't know the difference.

[pancakes3]

honey, that doesn't mean you dictate how the prof teaches.

Again, try to read more carefully. Nobody was or is trying to dictate how she teaches. You can bring forward an idea, but that's not the same as dictating.

Nah, it sounds like you were trying to dictate how she teaches. See raspberries' quotes (and saying "I'm paying thousands of dollars for this course" isn't denying that you were demanding, it's justifying it).

lol, why are you even going on about this? does this help you in some way? in any case, here's the email again: "Accordingly, I wonder if you could implement my suggestion that you provide a master document wherein your instructions and expectations for the next assignment are clearly articulated. It would also help my learning if it were possible for me to record classes from now on". dictating would be more like: "implement my suggestion of doing x or y". just an fyi in case you don't know the difference.

Becoming rapidly apparent why you're failing LRW

[mootness]

honey, that doesn't mean you dictate how the prof teaches.

Again, try to read more carefully. Nobody was or is trying to dictate how she teaches. You can bring forward an idea, but that's not the same as dictating.

Nah, it sounds like you were trying to dictate how she teaches. See raspberries' quotes (and saying "I'm paying thousands of dollars for this course" isn't denying that you were demanding, it's justifying it).

lol, why are you even going on about this? does this help you in some way? in any case, here's the email again: "Accordingly, I wonder if you could implement my suggestion that you provide a master document wherein your instructions and expectations for the next assignment are clearly articulated. It would also help my learning if it were possible for me to record classes from now on". dictating would be more like: "implement my suggestion of doing x or y". just an fyi in case you don't know the difference.

Becoming rapidly apparent why you're failing LRW

let's not derail the thread again, please. i don't want this to turn into one of those internet flame wars.

[zhenders]

Becoming rapidly apparent why you're failing life

Don't worry pancake; caught that typo.

[mootness]

Becoming rapidly apparent why you're failing life

Don't worry pancake; caught that typo.

lol

[raspberries]

A serious question for you mootness, how does someone currently in law school find the time to respond defensively to each and every post made in this thread? Almost immediately after it is made? This time could be utilized to try and better grasp what's expected of you in LRW. Not trying to be a prick-- just don't understand why you are asking for opinions on here if you're going to be offended by/refute anything that is said. TLS is clearly a blunt community.

[mootness]

A serious question for you mootness, how does someone currently in law school find the time to respond defensively to each and every post made in this thread? Almost immediately after it is made? This time could be utilized to try and better grasp what's expected of you in LRW. Not trying to be a prick-- just don't understand why you are asking for opinions on here if you're going to be offended by/refute anything that is said. TLS is clearly a blunt community.

I'm a really good multi-tasker and fast typer. But don't worry I'm probably leaving the community like tomorrow or something.

[pancakes3]

no, you should stick around. people are snarky around here, and at times down right mean, but there's also a lot to be gained. you should check out the general 1L thread if you're looking for people to commiserate with. i'm sure they'd be more sympathetic than the responses you've been getting in this thread.

[mootness]

no, you should stick around. people are snarky around here, and at times down right mean, but there's also a lot to be gained. you should check out the general 1L thread if you're looking for people to commiserate with. i'm sure they'd be more sympathetic than the responses you've been getting in this thread.

Thanks. It's alright, I wasn't expecting much sympathy to be honest. Yeah, I might stick around. Contrary to what the other poster thinks, i had a pretty productive day and was able to make a 4000 word outline

[mootness]

Posting here also really helped me get this issue off my mind. I was stuck thinking about it when I made the board. (like i'm sure you guys know, it really helps to talk to people.) but as of earlier today, i was pretty much over the issue and any post made after like 10 posts ago was for speculative, entertainment conversational and argumentative purposes. yes what i was doing was not pursuant to a mental health or scholarly purpose, but i guess i'm human!

[NotMyRealName09]

I read this entire thread and it did not disappoint. 9/10, would recommend.

Am I the only one who has never critiqued a teacher / professor on their teaching style and organization to their face while they still had power over my grade? Is this a thing that happens?

OP - this may be getting redundant, but did you actually think telling your professor to her face that she was disorganized and needed to produce a master document because you couldn't follow her was going to end up as a productive conversation? And I respectfully think you need to engage in a little self-reflection....in your first post, you mention you tried to take a piece of paper your professor had written on and the professor said no.....have you considered you may have trouble reading people? You kind of seem to say you tried to take your professor's notes and then were surprised she didn't let you. Something tells me that paper was never meant for you, and your professor was probably surprised you tried to grab it. Maybe I'm wrong, but if you find yourself thinking "huh, that interaction was odd," maybe you made it odd and don't realize it.

But don't leave, if I left this place each time I ran across an asshole, I'd have been gone years ago. And once you stick around long enough, you can get to the asshole yourself, and that can be real fun. Wade through the cynicism and assholery and this place, on the aggregate, tends to give out great advice. And as you're training to be a lawyer, its an important skill to be able wade through vitriol and sarcasm and dig out the little nuggets of substance, and this place gives you lots of opportunities to practice that.

Good luck.

[JGMotorsport]

honey, that doesn't mean you dictate how the prof teaches.

Again, try to read more carefully. Nobody was or is trying to dictate how she teaches. You can bring forward an idea, but that's not the same as dictating.

Nah, it sounds like you were trying to dictate how she teaches. See raspberries' quotes (and saying "I'm paying thousands of dollars for this course" isn't denying that you were demanding, it's justifying it).

lol, why are you even going on about this? does this help you in some way? in any case, here's the email again: "Accordingly, I wonder if you could implement my suggestion that you provide a master document wherein your instructions and expectations for the next assignment are clearly articulated. It would also help my learning if it were possible for me to record classes from now on". dictating would be more like: "implement x or y". just an fyi in case you don't know the difference.

This is loaded language, it's assuming that she is neither articulate nor her expectations expressed. I'd take offense to an email worded this way.
To me this says I suggested to you how YOU can improve can you please do it already so that you can improve your course.
Regardless of your explicit language your tone is really bad, re read your email as if I sent that to you. What would you think?
To add even further you're now assigning her a master assignment?

To me it's clear you are having trouble with your own understanding try this:
Professor I'm having trouble understanding x/y/z. I have some specific follow up questions that might help guide me in my assignments they are:
Q1
Q2
Q3

Thank you for your time Prof.
Best,
Mootness


Here is the rationale, make friendly with the prof and she gives you info that the rest of the class doesn't have. Forced curve has you profiting.
That said, and to enter this echo chamber, this website is infinitely helpful, lots of jerks but real life is fully of jerks.

[AReasonableMan]

You should stop focusing on your professor's teaching skills, and start focusing on securing employment. Your opinion doesn't matter and the quicker you realize that, the quicker you'll focus your energy on things that do. Even if you had the greatest professor in the world, the odds of LRW being something you'll come back to in 5 years and going "back in LRW, I learned..." are steeper than the odds of Bud Selig coming out of retirement to say that the Royals cheated, and subsequently deciding to crown the Cubs as world champion.

[mootness]

I read this entire thread and it did not disappoint. 9/10, would recommend.

Am I the only one who has never critiqued a teacher / professor on their teaching style and organization to their face while they still had power over my grade? Is this a thing that happens?

OP - this may be getting redundant, but did you actually think telling your professor to her face that she was disorganized and needed to produce a master document because you couldn't follow her was going to end up as a productive conversation? And I respectfully think you need to engage in a little self-reflection....in your first post, you mention you tried to take a piece of paper your professor had written on and the professor said no.....have you considered you may have trouble reading people? You kind of seem to say you tried to take your professor's notes and then were surprised she didn't let you. Something tells me that paper was never meant for you, and your professor was probably surprised you tried to grab it. Maybe I'm wrong, but if you find yourself thinking "huh, that interaction was odd," maybe you made it odd and don't realize it.

But don't leave, if I left this place each time I ran across an asshole, I'd have been gone years ago. And once you stick around long enough, you can get to the asshole yourself, and that can be real fun. Wade through the cynicism and assholery and this place, on the aggregate, tends to give out great advice. And as you're training to be a lawyer, its an important skill to be able wade through vitriol and sarcasm and dig out the little nuggets of substance, and this place gives you lots of opportunities to practice that.

Good luck.

I read this entire thread and it did not disappoint. 9/10, would recommend.

Am I the only one who has never critiqued a teacher / professor on their teaching style and organization to their face while they still had power over my grade? Is this a thing that happens?

OP - this may be getting redundant, but did you actually think telling your professor to her face that she was disorganized and needed to produce a master document because you couldn't follow her was going to end up as a productive conversation? And I respectfully think you need to engage in a little self-reflection....in your first post, you mention you tried to take a piece of paper your professor had written on and the professor said no.....have you considered you may have trouble reading people? You kind of seem to say you tried to take your professor's notes and then were surprised she didn't let you. Something tells me that paper was never meant for you, and your professor was probably surprised you tried to grab it. Maybe I'm wrong, but if you find yourself thinking "huh, that interaction was odd," maybe you made it odd and don't realize it.

But don't leave, if I left this place each time I ran across an asshole, I'd have been gone years ago. And once you stick around long enough, you can get to the asshole yourself, and that can be real fun. Wade through the cynicism and assholery and this place, on the aggregate, tends to give out great advice. And as you're training to be a lawyer, its an important skill to be able wade through vitriol and sarcasm and dig out the little nuggets of substance, and this place gives you lots of opportunities to practice that.

Good luck.

Interesting things to think about. To be fair, maybe I could have been extremely "gentle" when I made those suggestions, but I didn't actually say, "you need to do x and y". I think it went something like: "I want to raise an idea. It could be a good if you did X and this would help me." I probably should have kept the "you're disorganized" idea to myself. Yeah I can see how she'd be surprised i tried to take the note. I was just under the impression she was making it for me, since it would've been more productive if I kept the note and not her; I was the one who needed further instruction, not her. Maybe I was wrong to expect to be able to keep a note.

No, I'm acutally just leaving this place, because I never intended to say here after getting over this topic. If i did stay, I'd need to get a new account.

[emkay625]

I attend a T30 Strong Regional

Almost every LRW (LMW) professor I've heard about has similar style including my own. It's just the way it is. At my school students are getting mad and organized but do you really want to be that person? Think about it, her job is to train you on real life, I clerked as a 0L (long story) at a respected law firm in a small city. Every attorney there had the EXACT same style. You don't know what they want or how they want it, you just do what you think you need to do to get by. Often that is the best answer to these problems. You are a professional now, sending that email will hinder you in political ways that are just unnecessary. Play nice, smile and try to figure it out. It is exactly the same in real life.

If she is able to see which papers are yours (there are ways) do you want to be the C in your class for being 'brave'?

Thanks for the feedback. Yeah, I've decided that I'm going to just send an apology and move on. But I still have to disagree that her job is to train me for real life. I signed up for this program, requesting training in legal writing. But this is a useless point anyway, and I'd only bring it up if I were to file a complaint with other students. Also, I'm curious about what LRW instructors at T10 schools are like. Anyone know firsthand?

Isn't training you for legal writing and training you for real life the same thing? That's like saying a journalism course shouldn't prepare students for how to work for a newspaper, but should teach them as if they will always operate in a vacuum.

Also, writing is subjective. It would be physically impossible for your professor to tell you every single minute detail she will be evaluating when she grades your work: there's an infinite number of possibilities.

Also, even if she is "hiding the ball" (as the phrase goes), that is essentially what all law professors do in all classes, not just LRW. It is not the professor's job—in any class, including legal writing—to help you figure out how to get a good grade. It's their job to make sure you are prepared to be an attorney. And that's what it sounds like she's doing.

[mootness]

thanks to everyone who was genuinely interested in helping and/or who gave useful advice.

[NotMyRealName09]

thanks to everyone who was genuinely interested in helping and/or who gave useful advice.

Don't go, you've got the chops, one cannot shrink in the face of diversity, you asked, we told, constructive dialog, and hopefully, we all learned something about ourselves...(edit) or at least the jerks around us

[fats provolone]

If you ever find yourself starting a sentence with "Accordingly," in an email not written to opposing counsel, stop

[mootness]

I understand this forum has its fair share of jerks, but this has nothing to do with my decision to leave. I just never took much of an interest in this forum and only came here to talk about this one issue.

In any case, to extend my stay here: can someone guess the area of law that gives one the best shot at employment? I know it's probably not criminal or family.

[Jordan77]

In my 6th year of practice as an attorney, so I am going to give you some more "practical" advice. Mootness... holy hell... you really need to get a grasp on reality. Seriously, if you don't change your attitude of entitlement then you're going to go nowhere as an attorney. Your loaded language in your email just screams jerkoff who can't adapt to what is thrown at them. In practice, a partner would give you one assignment and realize you can't roll with the punches and that you need to be coddled and provided a master list of thoughts because you can't think for yourself. This is the exact opposite of the key to success as an attorney.

LRW is not an academic class. It is a class meant to provide you with a variety of assignments that you might receive as an associate in a law firm. People who excel at this are able to sift through all the bullshit and it sounds like you're just not an "A" student. Every student in your LRW class is in the same boat as you.

Employment should be your main priority, and I suggest you work on your people skills above all else to succeed in obtaining a job and doing well at it. Everyone knows that LRW instructors can be hit or miss. Sounds like you got a sub-par one, but so did everyone else on your curve. So suck it up and move on.

Just my two cents.

[n1o2c3a4c5h6e7t]

In any case, to extend my stay here: can someone guess the area of law that gives one the best shot at employment? I know it's probably not criminal or family.

No offense, but coming from a bad school you take what you can get--the majority of your classmates won't become lawyers. State criminal is agnostic as to school "pedigree," but there is also a greater supply of new lawyers than there is demand in that field (as there is in pretty much every legal field).

I have no idea about the Canadian legal marketplace, but I believe that there are fewer lawyers per capita up there. How that translates to employment outcomes I don't know.