1L Exam Q&A Forum

[Leonardo DiCaprio]

How should you use a perfect outline you've received from someone else?

As a 1L, IMO only as a study tool after you've put in the work to create your own. Creating outlines is painful, tedious work - but it forces you to think through everything again, synthesize, organize, refine, etc. Once you've done that, reading through a good old outline can help you refine the one you made.

2L and on, you can skip class, do no reading, read your good old outline a few times, take it into the exam, and get an A

is making your own outline really essential here? I'm a really shitty notetaker, some of my classes don't allow laptops, and i am really bad at making outlines...

[thesealocust]

None of making your own outline, attending class, or doing the reading is necessary to get an A. All you need is a few days with a good old outline and a solid understanding of law school exams.

But you're a 1L. How do you know what a good outline is? How confident are you that you understand law school exams?

Struggling to create an outline is part of the learning process. Nobody knows if they're in the position to skip that step and still master the law without trying it, and if you want to run it as an experiment first year, well, they're your grades

[DJM]

I got outlines from 2/3Ls that got top 10% at least for each of my classes. The outlines have been on point so far so I think I'm just gonna stick with these. I also suck at note taking and outlining so fuck making my own, these are solid.

Edit to add: if I find they need tweaking to my style then I'll do that but making my own would just be a huge waste of time.

[Effingham]

How should you use a perfect outline you've received from someone else?

As a 1L, IMO only as a study tool after you've put in the work to create your own. Creating outlines is painful, tedious work - but it forces you to think through everything again, synthesize, organize, refine, etc. Once you've done that, reading through a good old outline can help you refine the one you made.

2L and on, you can skip class, do no reading, read your good old outline a few times, take it into the exam, and get an A

is making your own outline really essential here? I'm a really shitty notetaker, some of my classes don't allow laptops, and i am really bad at making outlines...

Historically I am too, but it helped me pretty substantially. The classes where I ultimately struggled the most were those where I had someone else's outline to match all along. Only because I was willing to skim and cut and paste more than for those where I didn't have that luxury. The challenge really is working with the material enough to to be able to identify and fully flesh out any possible issue, how you get there doesn't matter.

[Leonardo DiCaprio]

do people seriously memorize their entire outlines? been reading through some old threads and i am seeing the whole "if you refer to your outline during exam you are doing it wrong" fairly often. fuck i don't have a good memory

[Effingham]

do people seriously memorize their entire outlines? been reading through some old threads and i am seeing the whole "if you refer to your outline during exam you are doing it wrong" fairly often. fuck i don't have a good memory

You'll get it. Most of the more general subjects have more finite information than you would think/it feels like right now.

And you're doing it all in blocks, just imagine what the bar exam will be like.

[ResIpsa305]

do people seriously memorize their entire outlines? been reading through some old threads and i am seeing the whole "if you refer to your outline during exam you are doing it wrong" fairly often. fuck i don't have a good memory

I've never had a problem referring to any of my outlines during an exam. I've heard that same warning against it, and quite frankly it's just a scare tactic.

However with that being said, there is a small sliver of truth to it. That is, I would strongly advise against depending on your outline as a crutch for every single issue, every single element that could potentially arise in an issue spotter. (You'd think this would be obvious, but I've seen people try this -- and it does not work).

Rather, spend your study time memorizing the fundamentals and big points of law and instead refer to your outline during the exam as a refresher for the more subtle/nuanced aspects.

[BVest]

I agree. I always had plenty of time to go to my outline where necessary, but I also knew, within a page, exactly where to look.

[Leonardo DiCaprio]

do people bring textbooks during open book tests? not sure if i should be tabbing my textbook for useful pages or something

[rnoodles]

do people bring textbooks during open book tests? not sure if i should be tabbing my textbook for useful pages or something

Honestly, this sounds very inefficient. Reading a textbook page for one answer when you should be writing seems like a bad idea.

Then again, I'm only 1L so I may be (probably am?) wrong.

[envisciguy]

do people bring textbooks during open book tests? not sure if i should be tabbing my textbook for useful pages or something

Having it there might make you feel a bit more confident, so in that respect it can be worth it, but it's rarely useful. You won't really have time to go to the book and if you have a good outline, there shouldn't be anything in the book you need.

That said, I think I went to a textbook maybe twice during law school when I had more time than I needed on an exam and remembered reading something applicable to the question in the book (ex: note case or hypo in the book that is very similar to the question asked on the exam). This is pretty rare though.

[Leonardo DiCaprio]

do people bring textbooks during open book tests? not sure if i should be tabbing my textbook for useful pages or something

Honestly, this sounds very inefficient. Reading a textbook page for one answer when you should be writing seems like a bad idea.

Then again, I'm only 1L so I may be (probably am?) wrong.

okay the official rule of this thread should now be that 1Ls ask and 2Ls, 3Ls, and graduates answer.

[Leonardo DiCaprio]

do people bring textbooks during open book tests? not sure if i should be tabbing my textbook for useful pages or something

Having it there might make you feel a bit more confident, so in that respect it can be worth it, but it's rarely useful. You won't really have time to go to the book and if you have a good outline, there shouldn't be anything in the book you need.

That said, I think I went to a textbook maybe twice during law school when I had more time than I needed on an exam and remembered reading something applicable to the question in the book (ex: note case or hypo in the book that is very similar to the question asked on the exam). This is pretty rare though.

hmm gotcha.

[A. Nony Mouse]

I did have one exam where I absolutely had to look something up in the casebook - I studied with a friend, and when we were going over a practice test, she said "and of course there's rule x," and I thought, I don't have rule x in my outline, I don't remember it ever coming up in class, friend is being overly conscientious, I'm not going to worry about that. Then I got into the exam and the very first step of the analysis required knowing rule x. Which I promptly looked up in the casebook.

(It was one of those exams where you start off with a situation where you have to decide if rule X or rule Y applies. If it's X, you then have to figure out if A, B, or C applies; if it's Y, you address D, E, and F; if A applies, then discuss G, H, I, etc etc etc. I needed to know what rule X was to be able to go anywhere.)

That said, that was the only time I remember it making a real difference. I read and write very quickly, and I always tabbed the crap out of my notes and casebook and usually consulted them at least somewhat. The danger is that it's easy to spend a lot of time tabbing and feel like you've been productive when you haven't learned anything at all, which you want to avoid. So open book can be a bit of a trap.

[Companion Cube]

This is how I used my outline:

I made my own, which helped me spot the issues. Why? Because I knew the material. No, I didn't have the BLL memorized word for word, but I knew all of the broad strokes by heart (e.g. Formation of a K, defenses, types of remedies (but not the formulas)).

I tabbed it and made a table of contents. (Pro tip: print out a single sheet table of contents and set it on a book stand so you can always see it even if you have your outline open). Highlight the issues in the table of contents contents that you would frequently miss on practice exams. This will help you look for those issues on the test.

When it was time to write the rule, I almost always flipped to that page of the outline and just stared and typed. Why? It actually takes less time to flip the page (using a tab) and mindlessly type than to sit there and try to recall the rule from heart. Also, it's more accurate. Be a fast typer, and be able to type well.

I bound all my outlines. Is this necessary? Absolutely not. I did it because, for me, it helped me relax having a nice and neat outline. Also, it was just nicer to have it flip along the edge of the page instead of at the corner. Fwiw this costs $5 at FedEx office.

I used multiple colors for highlighting. I had a basic code, but the point was more to just highlight things I thought i could read over and distinguish cases from rules etc. everybody will have their own way in that regard.

I will add to this later I think, but this way really worked for me.

[leslieknope]

When's the best time to start outlining? I haven't been because I feel like I'll forget when I outline now before exam time and have to do it over again- is there a reason why I should start now anyway?

[Companion Cube]

When's the best time to start outlining? I haven't been because I feel like I'll forget when I outline now before exam time and have to do it over again- is there a reason why I should start now anyway?

Start sooner than later because it takes forever. All you want to have to do come finals is tweaking your outline and taking practice exams.

[thesealocust]

Yeah, this is another question with a different answer for 1st semester 1Ls trying to gun their little hearts out vs. everyone else. Even 2nd semester it's probably fine to wait until near the end of classes to think about outlining.

First semester though, you're going to be slow and terrible at outlining, so it's worth putting that effort in early to save time at the end for refining and practicing. Forgetting isn't an issue - outlining isn't a once and done thing, you should be reviewing and revising and studying your outline all semester if you start early.

[MurdockLLP]

When outlining, what information should we be including from the case law? I have a number of outlines from 2L/3Ls and they include the dissent and rationale. Is this information necessary or should we be just hitting the BLL?

[thesealocust]

Rules & policies. Most people's outlines suck - you're looking for at least comprehensive, but rarely find strong organization or synthesis.

Facts, procedural posture, and dissents aren't completely useless as background information and knowledge, but are usually just clutter in an outline.

[twenty]

The only 1L class you should consider including actual dissents in your outline for is con law. And only then if you feel like you want to make clever "but SCOTUS would rule differently today..." kinds of sub-arguments. Maybe Civ Pro if you want to reference specific dissents that give you access to efficiency arguments, but this is a waste of time and honestly wouldn't give you that many extra points.

edit> this:

you're looking for at least comprehensive, but rarely find strong organization or synthesis.

[MurdockLLP]

Rules & policies. Most people's outlines suck - you're looking for at least comprehensive, but rarely find strong organization or synthesis.

Facts, procedural posture, and dissents aren't completely useless as background information and knowledge, but are usually just clutter in an outline.

Should we be aiming for the 20-30 page LEEWS recommended outline then?

[thesealocust]

Rules & policies. Most people's outlines suck - you're looking for at least comprehensive, but rarely find strong organization or synthesis.

Facts, procedural posture, and dissents aren't completely useless as background information and knowledge, but are usually just clutter in an outline.

Should we be aiming for the 20-30 page LEEWS recommended outline then?

pfbbbt my crim law outline was like 8 pages.

Generally speaking a short outline is a sign of effective processing and organization, but it's not a virtue on its own. Font size / spacing / etc. matter enough that page numbers don't tell you a whole lot in a vacuum.

[IsThisForReal]

1L:

Probably gonna start with 80 pages (basically my notes typed up) and whittle it down to ~50 as I study. Then also have a ~2 pg summary to go off of unless I NEED to look something up in my outline.

[Leonardo DiCaprio]

Yeah, this is another question with a different answer for 1st semester 1Ls trying to gun their little hearts out vs. everyone else. Even 2nd semester it's probably fine to wait until near the end of classes to think about outlining.

First semester though, you're going to be slow and terrible at outlining, so it's worth putting that effort in early to save time at the end for refining and practicing. Forgetting isn't an issue - outlining isn't a once and done thing, you should be reviewing and revising and studying your outline all semester if you start early.

studying my outline all semester as in like memorizing it?