Administrative Law Forum

[ph14]

Nah. We cover adjudication although very briefly. Stuff like informal adjudication vs. formal adjudication.

Oh, you mean like 553 and 5567 & 557? Yeah, we covered all that. It'll be on there under rulemaking.

To me, at least when I organize, even though the names are the same, I have to separate out adjudication in terms of rulemaking and adjudication in terms of hearings and judicial review. Part of my confusion at the beginning of the year was trying to figure out what the prof meant when he referred to adjudication.

Also, aren't you a 1L? How are you in Admin Law?

They fast tracked me because they were impressed by my comments in class.


(school requires it)

[kalvano]

Nah. We cover adjudication although very briefly. Stuff like informal adjudication vs. formal adjudication.

Oh, you mean like 553 and 5567 & 557? Yeah, we covered all that. It'll be on there under rulemaking.

To me, at least when I organize, even though the names are the same, I have to separate out adjudication in terms of rulemaking and adjudication in terms of hearings and judicial review. Part of my confusion at the beginning of the year was trying to figure out what the prof meant when he referred to adjudication.

Also, aren't you a 1L? How are you in Admin Law?

They fast tracked me because they were impressed by my comments in class.


(school requires it)

That's a weird requirement. It's a hard class.

[ph14]

Nah. We cover adjudication although very briefly. Stuff like informal adjudication vs. formal adjudication.

Oh, you mean like 553 and 5567 & 557? Yeah, we covered all that. It'll be on there under rulemaking.

To me, at least when I organize, even though the names are the same, I have to separate out adjudication in terms of rulemaking and adjudication in terms of hearings and judicial review. Part of my confusion at the beginning of the year was trying to figure out what the prof meant when he referred to adjudication.

Also, aren't you a 1L? How are you in Admin Law?

They fast tracked me because they were impressed by my comments in class.


(school requires it)

That's a weird requirement. It's a hard class.

I completely agree, on both counts.

[smittytron3k]

ph14, are you in Admin or LegReg? I always assumed you were in LegReg based on the questions you were asking (i.e. about Benzene and American Trucking).

FWIW, mine is organized (per the syllabus) as:

Adjudication
Agency Interpretations of Law
Oversight of Agency Policymaking
Judicial Review of Agency Action

[ph14]

ph14, are you in Admin or LegReg? I always assumed you were in LegReg based on the questions you were asking (i.e. about Benzene and American Trucking).

Leg Reg. Just easier to call it admin though lol.

PS, thanks again for all the help.

[wiseowl]

I got some help from "A BLACKLETTER STATEMENT OF FEDERAL ADMINISTRATIVE LAW", 54 Admin. L. Rev. 1, if you guys haven't seen that yet. Helps simplify things a little bit. Still working at it.

[kalvano]

I really can't stress enough how awesome the Inside Administrative Law by Beermann is.

[beach_terror]

Rulemaking outline: 20 pages, argh. Tomorrow is Chevron outlining, hopefully I can finish it off and basically be done with admin until my exam on the 20th. The 5 days before should be sufficient for making attack outlines and practicing with them.

[Thedude737]

I won't say no to a copy of your outline

[beach_terror]

And after 70+ pages of Chevron, my book finally clarifies:

a. Chevron scope: applied to an agency interpretation of a statute announced in a rule issued under general authority through use of notice-and-comment rulemaking

[ph14]

And after 70+ pages of Chevron, my book finally clarifies:

a. Chevron scope: applied to an agency interpretation of a statute announced in a rule issued under general authority through use of notice-and-comment rulemaking

I thought Chevron was for agency interpretations of it's organic statute. So it would potentially apply for adjudications as well as rulemakings.

[beach_terror]

And after 70+ pages of Chevron, my book finally clarifies:

a. Chevron scope: applied to an agency interpretation of a statute announced in a rule issued under general authority through use of notice-and-comment rulemaking

I thought Chevron was for agency interpretations of it's organic statute. So it would potentially apply for adjudications as well as rulemakings.

If that's true, my book still hasn't opined such a statement. And yes, reading all of this Justice Scalia nonsense as made me write like an asshole apparently. I still have 60 or so pages until I'm done with Mead, Brand-X, etc.

[beach_terror]

After flipping through kalvano's recommended supplement, you're right as long as it's a formal adjudication it seems.

[ph14]

After flipping through kalvano's recommended supplement, you're right as long as it's a formal adjudication it seems.

Gotcha. Why wouldn't it apply to informal adjudication? (not necessarily directed at you because I think you said you guys aren't studying adjudication)

[quiver]

After flipping through kalvano's recommended supplement, you're right as long as it's a formal adjudication it seems.

Gotcha. Why wouldn't it apply to informal adjudication? (not necessarily directed at you because I think you said you guys aren't studying adjudication)

Under the Mead framework, informal adjudication will usually be entitled to only Skidmore deference; although it is possible to get Chevron deference in certain circumstances (see Barnhart).

[beach_terror]

After flipping through kalvano's recommended supplement, you're right as long as it's a formal adjudication it seems.

Gotcha. Why wouldn't it apply to informal adjudication? (not necessarily directed at you because I think you said you guys aren't studying adjudication)

Under the Mead framework, informal adjudication will usually be entitled to only Skidmore deference; although it is possible to get Chevron deference in certain circumstances (see Barnhart).

Yeah. I'm still kind of confused as to where this falls on the big flowchart of administrative law, but the informal/formal distinction governs whether you apply Mead or Chevron.

Side note: I love how courts think that they can intelligibly differentiate between these ridiculous standards of review. Judges: superhuman because they say they are. I still don't think you can even consistently differentiate between reasonable doubt and preponderance, much less this shit (I realize judges and juries are different, but the point stands)

[smittytron3k]

How much are agencies going to be engaged in interpreting their organic statutes (as opposed to their regulations) during the course of an adjudication? If they're interpreting and applying their own regulations, it seems like we'd be in Auer/Seminole Rock territory rather than Chevron territory. What am I missing?

[kalvano]

And after 70+ pages of Chevron, my book finally clarifies:

a. Chevron scope: applied to an agency interpretation of a statute announced in a rule issued under general authority through use of notice-and-comment rulemaking

I thought Chevron was for agency interpretations of it's organic statute. So it would potentially apply for adjudications as well as rulemakings.

Chevron is for agency interpretations of statutes. It doesn't have to be N&C.

[kalvano]

After flipping through kalvano's recommended supplement, you're right as long as it's a formal adjudication it seems.

How are you liking it?

[beach_terror]

After flipping through kalvano's recommended supplement, you're right as long as it's a formal adjudication it seems.

How are you liking it?

Only briefly glanced at it, but the organization looks useful. I like to suffer through the text of the cases and try to figure it out together by taking the important quotes to start with. After I'm done I go through and arrange a BLL attack outline and use the best quotes for the rules for it. I'm saving most of the supplement for then. Luckily, my school's library has it so I didn't have to buy that shizz.

[ph14]

And after 70+ pages of Chevron, my book finally clarifies:

a. Chevron scope: applied to an agency interpretation of a statute announced in a rule issued under general authority through use of notice-and-comment rulemaking

I thought Chevron was for agency interpretations of it's organic statute. So it would potentially apply for adjudications as well as rulemakings.

Chevron is for agency interpretations of statutes. It doesn't have to be N&C.

N&C?

[beach_terror]

How much are agencies going to be engaged in interpreting their organic statutes (as opposed to their regulations) during the course of an adjudication? If they're interpreting and applying their own regulations, it seems like we'd be in Auer/Seminole Rock territory rather than Chevron territory. What am I missing?

Law school exams.

[ph14]

How much are agencies going to be engaged in interpreting their organic statutes (as opposed to their regulations) during the course of an adjudication? If they're interpreting and applying their own regulations, it seems like we'd be in Auer/Seminole Rock territory rather than Chevron territory. What am I missing?

If they're interpreting regulations, are we in Skidmore territory?

[beach_terror]

And after 70+ pages of Chevron, my book finally clarifies:

a. Chevron scope: applied to an agency interpretation of a statute announced in a rule issued under general authority through use of notice-and-comment rulemaking

I thought Chevron was for agency interpretations of it's organic statute. So it would potentially apply for adjudications as well as rulemakings.

Chevron is for agency interpretations of statutes. It doesn't have to be N&C.

N&C?

Practice your statutory interpretation, this is an easy one to figure out.

[beach_terror]

How much are agencies going to be engaged in interpreting their organic statutes (as opposed to their regulations) during the course of an adjudication? If they're interpreting and applying their own regulations, it seems like we'd be in Auer/Seminole Rock territory rather than Chevron territory. What am I missing?

If they're interpreting regulations, are we in Skidmore territory?

No, Skidmore is only for "informal" adjudication/rulemaking I believe. Agency regulations can be formal, and thus would be in Chevron territory.